[DMoriarty]

"and given Tom D's growing sensitivities to any potential criticism of his new courses"

I don't see this, and don't see the point in the comment at all.

Of course you wouldn't see it or see the point.   That is the point.

But how about that match between the Dismal White and Sand Hills? That is the point of the thread, and that one I'd like to see.

[Mac Plumart]

without any scientific analysis, I would say Sand hills is the least severe property, while Ballyneal and Dismal Doak are moderately interesting, while Dismal Jack has the most severe terrain

Actually, I think Ballyneal was the most severe property of the four.  It had the most abrupt contours [and the most contour overall], whereas both courses at Dismal are laid out over bigger and broader contours.  

In the end, that worked out well, but only once I'd found a good routing through all the dunes at Ballyneal, and done a bit more earthwork than you know.  It looks easier once it's done!  Just go 100 yards out into the native on some hole, and look around.  [And try not to get your vehicle stuck ]

Tom,

I agree with you.  The way the architect uses the land the courses is on makes a HUGE difference in regards to the final product.  I've said before that the course at Sand Hills is more seamlessly blended into to land, while Dismal White is more carved into the land.  I personally think that this makes for a more peaceful, serene feeling at Sand Hills, while Dismal White is more of a thrill ride.

I do think you struck an incredible mix of the two with your work at Dismal Red.  The first 8 have that serene visual impact, but when you begin to think about the options for the shot at hand... then the thrilling aspect of hour work stands out.  But then when you cross the road, highlighted by the tee shot on 9...my, oh my.  Dismal Red shifts into another stratosphere.  You capture equifinality incredibly well... and you have a great mix of the natural feeling with incredibly thrilling shots.

[William_G]

interesting Mac.

Jack had little choice due to the severity of the land that by all accounts, "he chose", but to carve the course in

what's really interesting is that with the millions of acres of sand out there, is how the courses were ultimately sited, which I don't really know

like I said above, when you get to ocean, you know there will generally be sand, yet you are in sandy terrain of varying shapes, slopes and sizes in CO and NE for hundreds of miles

pretty cool once you see the cabins at DR

[Chuck Glowacki]

Sand Hilis is awesome!
Dismal River   Both awesome!
There seems to be an inability to fairly judge the Nicklaus course due to biases against his other courses.  Yes a few holes were changed, but an attempt for greatness will occassionally result in a few misses--these were improved.  There are a couple of par 3's that don't wet some people's appetite, but they happen to be really fun and intersting holes.  Played a few times with an open mind, and these can become favorites.  The par 5's are brilliant with risk/reward and emphasis on angle of attack.
The Red course will probably recieve super high rankings among GCA members since there seems to be an unadultereted lovefest for his work.  I happen to love his courses, but will not rate other new courses below simply because they are not Doak--I prefere Laurel Links and epecially Friars Head, and Atlantic to Sebonac.  I think I began a thread stating the Red may be the best course in the world--it certainly should receive consideration along with Ballyneal and Sand Hills.

Nice to hear a shout out for kelly's laurel links in mattituck, ny, some folks out this way think laurel has the finest greens in
the area!

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