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John Kavanaugh

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Difficult shots in modern times.
« on: October 17, 2012, 01:55:34 PM »
What are some of the more difficult shots built this millennium?  Can they survive, unlike those at Bandon Trails, in our participation ribbon society?

The approach to the 3rd green at Victoria National has been pooh poohed by the punters since its inception.  Every year talk of shaving down the mound that creates a blind shot with water behind the green is talked up for disembowelment and every year it survives.  I hope we remain strong.

Many of you will be surprised by the difficulty of several shots at the new course at Dismal.  Blogger bombs will rain like errant drives after balls are lost on 5, 9 and 13.  Is challenging the challenged worth it in modern architecture?  

What are examples of other modern difficult golf shots and how have they kept the bloggers at bay and the knife away?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 01:57:39 PM by John Kavanaugh »

Tim Gavrich

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Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 02:11:20 PM »
John--

I would look to any of a number of shots at Ballyhack outside Roanoke, VA. Given the disposition of the fine people I met there when I played it with Wade Whitehead, I don't see them kowtowing to the whiners who'd sooner complain than put in a couple extra hours sharpening their skills to tackle such shots.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Mark Pritchett

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Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 02:24:30 PM »
Tim,

Funny, when reading the first post I immediately thought of Ballyhack!

Mark

Carl Nichols

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Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 02:31:46 PM »
17 at Kinloch, at least for me.

Jason Topp

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Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 02:40:24 PM »
Hazards that punish shots shot weak and right are difficult for most of us.  My bad shot usually is a block and often on resort courses I will block one way right and find the ball laying on grass allowing me to continue when I assumed I had no chance.

Tough modern courses punish short right shots. Being punished in that matter feels like going to the dentist but such results inspire you to figure out how to improve a weakness not always evident on other courses.  I  sent 6 balls in the water at my new club last Saturday.  I improved on Sunday, reducing that number to 4.  In most cases the shot was short and right.  My handicap is going up.

Mark Pritchett

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Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 02:50:23 PM »
Has Wolf Run changed much over the years?  A tough course, but I wouldn't want it changed a bit. 

Charlie Goerges

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Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 04:43:35 PM »
The hardest shots are uneven lies in my opinion. A shot can be plenty challenging, even without hazards, if the ball is below my feet.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Wade Whitehead

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Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2012, 06:05:23 PM »
At Ballyhack the player is often one shot away from glory AND a single swing away from disaster.

The entire experience on the fourth hole is difficult.  The tee shot must be hit on the proper line AND with the correct distance (which isn't necessarily as far as a player can hit it).  The approach, often played from an uneven lie, switches back and must, on occasion, be played 25 yards away from the pin itself.  Par is often made by sinking a long putt.

There are a number of other difficult shots all around the golf course, and they aren't hard because they only punish a ball hit short right.  The place demands concentration and creativity.  If both don't converge a player is in for a few extra strikes.

Tim, there are certainly those of us who don't want any part of the golf course altered.  I wonder, though, if over time the fourteenth green site can survive the heartache it forces into nearly every foursome.

I think I'll bring up this thread at dinner during this weekend's Saul Shootout.  Perhaps that group can chime with a wider opinion after playing for a couple of days.

WW
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 06:36:33 PM by Wade Whitehead »

Tim Martin

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Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2012, 06:51:40 PM »
17-Kiawah Ocean

Joe Bausch

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Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 07:38:34 PM »
17-Kiawah Ocean

Dear Tim,

The shot is not as hard as I made it appear.

Sincerely,
M. Shankavellichia

-----------------------
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mac Plumart

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Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 07:49:04 PM »
Dismal river 14...I've dubbed this the "Hole of Shattered Dreams".   The all or nothing carry is daunting.  The bunkers is soul crushing. 

Kingsley 9...heroic par 3 on the juice.

How have they stayed intact?  Wise management.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 07:54:58 PM »
A good thread, John.  Can't add anything, except to say that even in my few short years here at gca.com (about 5 years or so) I've seen several changes in the consensus opinion: from "That hole is too hard to be great" to "A great hole can be parred by everyone, but it's very tough to birdie" to "That's a great hole under the right wind conditions and ideal maintenance meld" to "Don't tell me that hole is too easy - it's a great half par hole" to "Yes, some great holes can be hard, plain and simple" and back to "That hole is too hard to be great". At each stage, of course, there were dissenters and contrary opinions; but seemingly never any love for Jack Nicklaus, except in that very brief "yes, some great holes can be hard" era. :)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 07:57:19 PM by PPallotta »

hhuffines

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Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2012, 10:18:27 PM »
Approach shot on Pacific Dunes #16.  It took me three plays to get it right.  Wouldn't change it a bit...

Andy Troeger

Re: Difficult shots in modern times.
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2012, 11:17:32 PM »
Has Wolf Run changed much over the years?  A tough course, but I wouldn't want it changed a bit. 


Its still really hard, but my understanding is that its softer than it when it was built.

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