[Rick Shefchik]

Venturi is never very helpful when it comes to matters of fact. I sometimes think his memory is as unreliable as Frost's research. In his autobiography "Getting Up and Down," he writes,

"We all shook hands, went into the locker room, put on our coats and ties, and then entered the clubhouse. Everyone felt proud. Among the four of us, there were 27 birdies and an eagle. Ward and Nelson shot 67s, I finished with a 65, and Hogan recorded a 63. Nearly 50 years later, I am asked about that round constantly."

In his book, Venturi describes the round in match play terms, with Hogan and Nelson winning 1-up when Hogan made a 10-foot birdie putt on 18. But he doesn't bother to explain how all four of them ended up with medal scores in a match play game.
 

[JNC Lyon]

Colin Macqueen writes:
"They soon learned the facts were these: Ben Hogan had tied his own couse record at Cypress Point with 63. Ken Venturi had shot 65, Byron Nelson and Harvie Ward 67."
Fact or fiction?

I refuse to read Mark Frost books. He makes up history and I'm not wild about made-up history pretending to be non-fiction.

It is fiction. They did not keep score. They played a match. There is no way of knowing what they would have shot had they been playing medal since they didn't play medal.

Especially in a team competition, putts are not holed out. If Ward made a birdie, and Venturi picked up, what did Venturi make on the hole?

Cheers,
Dan King

It was the best golf I've ever seen. And that's the only team who ever beat Harvey and me. We could have challenged the world. Come to think of it, that's about what we did.
 --Ken Venturi (on the 1956 match between amateurs Venturi and Ward against legends Hogan and Nelson at Cypress Point)

Sorry, I guess was basing my comments off of what Frost wrote.  However, this video shows a shot of a card containing the scores from the match at 1:35, which would confirm Frost's assertion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6xGAWbT_Zw&feature=youtu.be

I don't know whether Frost's books are more fact or fiction, but it does bother me that neither The Match nor The Greatest Game Ever Played possessed a single reference, footnote, or bibliographic entry.

My broader point was that it does not seem technology has destroyed a course like Cypress Point.  The day was beautiful, warm, and calm, yet these guys couldn't go below 67 on a very short golf course.  It shows there is a lot more to golf than hitting the ball big distances.  And it also shows that the knee-jerk lengthening of golf courses is just silly.

[David Davis]

Venturi is never very helpful when it comes to matters of fact. I sometimes think his memory is as unreliable as Frost's research. In his autobiography "Getting Up and Down," he writes,

"We all shook hands, went into the locker room, put on our coats and ties, and then entered the clubhouse. Everyone felt proud. Among the four of us, there were 27 birdies and an eagle. Ward and Nelson shot 67s, I finished with a 65, and Hogan recorded a 63. Nearly 50 years later, I am asked about that round constantly."

In his book, Venturi describes the round in match play terms, with Hogan and Nelson winning 1-up when Hogan made a 10-foot birdie putt on 18. But he doesn't bother to explain how all four of them ended up with medal scores in a match play game.
 

Yeah I bet not everyone in the room felt proud, what about the guy that lost the 6 figure bet. I think he was doing anything but laughing.

Fact or fiction, all or in part, it's a fun read and one of the best preludes to your first round at Cypress. Totally agree that matchplay scores are not to be compared to strokeplay scores at all, that's a good point. So tying his own record (which he shares with someone else by the way) while impressive is not the same but it does make for fun (sensationalized) reading, especially for the majority of the people that wouldn't know the difference or catch those fine details/mistakes. If that bothers you wait till the movie comes out...

[David Bartman]

I see my response wasn't needed . question was answered

[Peter Pallotta]

It was past noon now, the sun almost directly overhead, the air sparkling with the filtered, crystalline light particular to the Peninsula.  As they stepped onto the fairway, Bubba broke into a brief, pitch-perfect impression of Bing Crosby singing the opening bars of his familiar golf tune, "Straight Down the Middle."  Bubba had honed his impression to perfection during the introductions of CBS telecasts of the AT&T National Pro-Am; Venturi's eyes glistened and he smiled at Bubba.  The other men laughed, which briefly relieved their steadily growing tension.  Even the gallery of First Tee benefactors relaxed for a moment and sang along.  A pleasant stroll communing with nature, feeling the sun on his face, and cracking up his friends and galleries - that was Bubba's idea of the perfect day.

+1. Beautifully done, Kevin. Just for fun, I'll try to keep it going:

It was, however, not a perfect day for Davis Love. Standing there tall and taciturn as ever, the anti-thesis of the light hearted and chaotic Watson, Love was a man full of questions, including the worst kind of question a man could ever face: What If? What If? His father had no doubt introduced young Davis to the famous Rudyard Kipling poem,  and in the decades of his professional golfing life, with all its joys and heartbreaks --  and with the rainbow that no one would ever forget -- Love had trained himself to meet with Triumph and Disaster, and to treat those two impostors just the same. But Kipling had never captained a U.S. Ryder Cup team, and until just a few weeks earlier, neither had Love. With the entire American golfing press, and -- some hinted -- his own players losing their heads and blaming him, Davis had for the first time in his life found himself staying up late into the night, a glass of bourbon in his hand in the elegant library of his genteel southern estate, asking himself: What If? What If? On the tee now, he found his head dropping to his chest, and an aching sigh escaping from his lips. While the crowd sang merrily, a paean to a glorious golf course and a glorious game, all Love could think of was the obvious: "I'll never know. I'll never know."  And for a man like Davis Love, not knowing was the worst thing of all.  

[Rick Shefchik]

It was past noon now, the sun almost directly overhead, the air sparkling with the filtered, crystalline light particular to the Peninsula.  As they stepped onto the fairway, Bubba broke into a brief, pitch-perfect impression of Bing Crosby singing the opening bars of his familiar golf tune, "Straight Down the Middle."  Bubba had honed his impression to perfection during the introductions of CBS telecasts of the AT&T National Pro-Am; Venturi's eyes glistened and he smiled at Bubba.  The other men laughed, which briefly relieved their steadily growing tension.  Even the gallery of First Tee benefactors relaxed for a moment and sang along.  A pleasant stroll communing with nature, feeling the sun on his face, and cracking up his friends and galleries - that was Bubba's idea of the perfect day.

+1. Beautifully done, Kevin. Just for fun, I'll try to keep it going:

It was, however, not a perfect day for Davis Love. Standing there tall and taciturn as ever, the anti-thesis of the light hearted and chaotic Watson, Love was a man full of questions, including the worst kind of question a man could ever face: What If? What If? His father had no doubt introduced young Davis to the famous Rudyard Kipling poem,  and in the decades of his professional golfing life, with all its joys and heartbreaks --  and with the rainbow that no one would ever forget -- Love had trained himself to meet with Triumph and Disaster, and to treat those two impostors just the same. But Kipling had never captained a U.S. Ryder Cup team, and until just a few weeks earlier, neither had Love. With the entire American golfing press, and -- some hinted -- his own players losing their heads and blaming him, Davis had for the first time in his life found himself staying up late into the night, a glass of bourbon in his hand in the elegant library of his genteel southern estate, asking himself: What If? What If? On the tee now, he found his head dropping to his chest, and an aching sigh escaping from his lips. While the crowd sang merrily, a paean to a glorious golf course and a glorious game, all Love could think of was the obvious: "I'll never know. I'll never know."  And for a man like Davis Love, not knowing was the worst thing of all.  

Better watch it, there, guys, or you'll have a literary agent offering to sell this to Hyperion.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Oct 9 - CPC hosts Davis Love III and Nick Watney v Bubba Watson and Rickie Fowler.
Watched by Ken Venturi and less than 200 others it seems.

SI's Alan Shupnuck tweeted throughout the round.

Any GCAers in attendance?

Mathew,

A friend of mine watched the match and told me today, when we played, that it was terrific.

Matthew

[Wade Whitehead]

The player picks couldn't have been less venerable.

To even compare the event to the original match is a joke.

WW

[Patrick_Mucci]

The player picks couldn't have been less venerable.

To even compare the event to the original match is a joke.

Wade,

Who would you choose ?

Which two PGA Tour Pros and which two amateurs ?

And, would you have to pay the PGA Tour Pros ?
How much ?

And, would they all be available on the date the event was held, which was concurrent with another event being held in that area.

WW

[Wade Whitehead]

Pat:

I'd pit Tiger Woods and Tom Watson against Nathan Smith and Keith Decker.

I'd get two businessmen to bet the bill.  They'd pay the pros whatever they wanted.

There's not a way to translate player availability, since no real parallel to the Clambake exists these days.  Again, my businessmen would take charge of attracting the competitors.

WW

[Sam Morrow]

Instead of setting up the match they should have let the donors play the course. Or if the charity is really about the kids let them play Cypress.

[Bob_Huntley]

Just go to Search and see my comments on this book. I have the good fortune to know the late Gorge Coleman's daughter
and she pointed out quite a few inventions by the author.

It should be in the Fiction shelves at your local library.

Bob

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat:

I'd pit Tiger Woods and Tom Watson against Nathan Smith and Keith Decker.

I'd get two businessmen to bet the bill.  They'd pay the pros whatever they wanted.

What's in it for them ?
And what about getting the club, wouldn't your two businessmen have to be members ?

Ed Lowery had a love for the game and personal connections with the parties involved.
Which businessmen, who are members, have those same connections.

In the world of fantasy, you can create any match you want, but, in the real world, it's not so easy to replicate "The Match"

There's not a way to translate player availability, since no real parallel to the Clambake exists these days.

There was a concurrent event run the other day, and isn't the AT&T played in those parts every year ? 

Again, my businessmen would take charge of attracting the competitors.

Maybe in a fantasy setting, but, putting a match of similar significance together is more difficult than you think.

[Wade Whitehead]

Pat:

You're right.  My businessmen are tongue-in-cheek creations.  There really isn't a way to replicate The Match today.  The very concept of amateurism is pretty much a bygone.

WW

[Jerry Kluger]

Pat:

The reason that the match doesn't mean anything today is that there really wasn't anything at stake.  No money and no pride - just an exhibition.  My only thought would be to have 2 Irishmen, McIlroy and McDowell, against two Americans, Woods and Mickelson,  or two Englishmen, Donald and Westwood, against two Americans - at least there would be a sense of pride.  This was just an exhibition with no mystique.   

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jerry,

I think Wade is correct, the stars just don't align to allow for a modern repeat.

Amateurism, as newsworthy, is a thing of the past as well.

These type of events are just for entertainment, they're artificially created as opposed to naturally occurring.

[Wade Whitehead]

"The work that I have done has been for amateur sport, and I hope you won't mind if I leave you with my creed of amateurism. Amateurism, after all, must be the backbone of all sport-- golf or otherwise. In my mind an amateur is one who competes in a sport for the joy of playing, for the companionship that it affords, for health-giving exercise, and for relaxation from more serious matters. As part of this light-hearted approach to the game, he accepts cheerfully all adverse breaks, is considerate of his opponent, plays the game fairly and squarely in accordance with its rules, maintains self-control, and strives to do his best, not in order to win, but rather as a test of his own skill and ability. These are his only interests, and, in them material considerations have no part. The return which amateur sport will bring to those who play it in this spirit are greater than those any money can possibly buy".

Richard Tufts sums why The Match will never be repeated.

WW

PS Connected to Sam's comment above, it's interesting that they invited donors to attend instead of the volunteers who actually make The First Tee click.

[Sam Morrow]

"The work that I have done has been for amateur sport, and I hope you won't mind if I leave you with my creed of amateurism. Amateurism, after all, must be the backbone of all sport-- golf or otherwise. In my mind an amateur is one who competes in a sport for the joy of playing, for the companionship that it affords, for health-giving exercise, and for relaxation from more serious matters. As part of this light-hearted approach to the game, he accepts cheerfully all adverse breaks, is considerate of his opponent, plays the game fairly and squarely in accordance with its rules, maintains self-control, and strives to do his best, not in order to win, but rather as a test of his own skill and ability. These are his only interests, and, in them material considerations have no part. The return which amateur sport will bring to those who play it in this spirit are greater than those any money can possibly buy".

Richard Tufts sums why The Match will never be repeated.

WW

PS Connected to Sam's comment above, it's interesting that they invited donors to attend instead of the volunteers who actually make The First Tee click.

Cypress doesn't want the great unwashed.

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