Whom do we have on the inside at Golf Magazine?

[Ronald Montesano]

check out all the slides before commenting.

http://www.golf.com/photos/worst-golf-courses-host-major-championships/hazeltine-national-golf-club

[PCCraig]

check out all the slides before commenting.

http://www.golf.com/photos/worst-golf-courses-host-major-championships/hazeltine-national-golf-club

I won't justify such a poor list with anything more than a 

[Mark Saltzman]

Yikes sure to make some enemies with that list!

Is Southern Hills really one of the 10 worst? I liked it.

[Jud_T]

A couple of headscratchers, including Olympia Fields.  I think the gist of it is from the perspective of a the interest of a television viewer, but I do give them credit for being critical of some big name tournament venues, something there's far too little of in most of these rags. 

[Peter Pallotta]

Brave folks - real outside the box thinking there. Just in the nick of time too.

Mark - my guess is that it's the kind of enemies that don't count much anymore.

Peter

[Rick Shefchik]

I could have guessed eight of the 11 in about 15 seconds. Dave Hill sure figured out a way to become immortal.

[Andy Troeger]

Disagree with Valhalla, which I think is actually a pretty interesting golf course. It just happened to be the course that didn't fit in 2000 with Augusta, Pebble, and TOC.

I also think Southern Hills is better than it gets credit for here. Ditto Olympia Fields, which has quite a bit of interest.

Medinah also gets a bad rap, but I'd like to know what's so different about it and Baltusrol Lower, which never makes these types of lists but is very much the same style of course. Medinah probably has more character of the two, although Baltusrol Upper might be better than either one.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

It could be the SI influence.  Apparently, they're haters.  Most of the folks I've spoke to had a blast: 

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/pga-championship-logistics-kiawah-island-were-ugly

[jeffwarne]

"they mowed different greens at different speeds to accomodate the old fashioned greens"
hard to respect a magazine that even prints that.
imagine that?....contour

It's funny how a magazine that glorified most of these courses in my youth now condemns many of them.
Fads are a great thing, until you realize they're fads.

I'm guessing George Peper had a closet full of bellbottoms.

Some pretty good champions in that mix

[Patrick_Mucci]

Disagree with Valhalla, which I think is actually a pretty interesting golf course. It just happened to be the course that didn't fit in 2000 with Augusta, Pebble, and TOC.

I also think Southern Hills is better than it gets credit for here. Ditto Olympia Fields, which has quite a bit of interest.

Medinah also gets a bad rap, but I'd like to know what's so different about it and Baltusrol Lower, which never makes these types of lists but is very much the same style of course. Medinah probably has more character of the two, although Baltusrol Upper might be better than either one.

Andy, Baltusrol lower is essentially intact over the last 50 years, whereas, Medinah has seen more surgery than Joan Rivers.

[JR Potts]

Disagree with Valhalla, which I think is actually a pretty interesting golf course. It just happened to be the course that didn't fit in 2000 with Augusta, Pebble, and TOC.

I also think Southern Hills is better than it gets credit for here. Ditto Olympia Fields, which has quite a bit of interest.

Medinah also gets a bad rap, but I'd like to know what's so different about it and Baltusrol Lower, which never makes these types of lists but is very much the same style of course. Medinah probably has more character of the two, although Baltusrol Upper might be better than either one.

Andy, Baltusrol lower is essentially intact over the last 50 years, whereas, Medinah has seen more surgery than Joan Rivers.

Pat:  so now surgeries matter?  That comment seems to fly in the face of your constant support of Augusta and its constant face-lifts.

That said, they picked 10 courses..and those courses have likely hosted almost half of the non-Augusta US majors over the past two decades....so, the list probably isn't too inaccurate....but also isn't too damning.

[Jason Walker]

I've played six of them and had a GREAT experience at every single one of them.  Championship golf is different.  The sooner it gets realized and recognized, the better off we'll all be.     

[Jonathan Mallard]

They missed Kemper Lakes, Shoal Creek, and Atlanta Athletic Club.

[JR Potts]

Championship golf is different.  The sooner it gets realized and recognized, the better off we'll all be.

Exactly! But it's not just Championship golf, it's what we expect Championship golf to be. 

[Matt_Cohn]

I guess even the worst major championship venues are still pretty damn good golf courses.

[Andy Troeger]

They missed Kemper Lakes, Shoal Creek, and Atlanta Athletic Club.

Sure seems like they picked places that have hosted multiple majors over the years, although AAC qualifies under that logic too. Kemper Lakes isn't all that great, but Shoal Creek is a pretty decent golf course really, just too claustrophobic with the trees in spots.


Pat,
I'm not really that interested in the different variations of Medinah and Baltusrol Lower. I just think in their current configurations that they are similar golf courses. If you like long and tough championship courses they are both very good, but if you're looking for something a little more whimsical they're probably not at the top of your list. I just don't see much difference, other than perhaps the names of the architects associated with the designs.

[Sam Morrow]

This like most lists is retarded.

[David_Elvins]

It's a reasonable list.

I am not sure anyone here could come up with a better list.

[Jon Wiggett]

Wow, interesting comments about RL&SA. I wonder if this was used as it was this years venue and they didn't know any other? Judging from what has been written thay have clearly not been to it in person.

Jon

[David_Elvins]

Wow, interesting comments about RL&SA. I wonder if this was used as it was this years venue and they didn't know any other? Judging from what has been written thay have clearly not been to it in person.

Jon

Jon,

The critique was relatively consistent with other critiques, wasn't it?  eg. Darius Oliver in Planet Golf.

[Jon Wiggett]

David,

RL&SA has a good set of green complexes and the a back nine which few courses rival from a GCA point of view. The playing surfaces have plenty of contours to make for interesting play. As for no views of the see well you don't see the ocean from Royal Birkdale either and I fail to see what is wrong with having the clubhouse so close to the green but maybe you could enlighten me.

To me it seemed that RL&SA was included as a token gesture so as not to appear to be just criticising US courses. The criticisms were in some cases factually wrong and in others statements without saying what was wrong in the view of the writer. It is obvious to me that the writer of this piece has either no appreciation of good links GCA or had not even been to the course.

Jon

[David Davis]

I agree RL & SA certainly doesn't belong on that list. Lacks drama and visual interest, yet look at the photo they place, by far the best photo in the group even. That the author would prefer to look at the sea above golf course architecture I can understand.

To say the course lacks drama would of been to miss Tiger trying to get out of that bunker on the last day, McDowell deterioration and Scott falling apart in the last 4 holes just to name a few. Amazing course and brilliant architecture, more drama than we could wish for but ok the town itself is not that picturesque.

[Michael George]

I applaud the list.  You may disagree with one or two of the golf courses on the list, but it contains a lot of golf courses that regularly get panned on this site.  Should a couple of other courses like AAC be included, probably, but every list has a couple of those.  Well done Golf Magazine. 

Mike Vegis - Kiawah was an incredible venue and I hope it hosts many more majors (I honestly enjoyed watching the venue more than any PGA Championship site in the last 20 years).  However, the logistics have been widely panned by a wide range of outlets.  Part of the charm of Kiawah Ocean is its remote location, but with it comes logistics problems.   I think it is better to accept the criticism and figure out how to improve them... rather than just dismiss them.
 

[Jerry Kluger]

I would argue that the first and most compelling argument one could make concerning the worst major championship venue is one where the best players were not the ones who were in contention and eventually won the tournament.  After all, isn't that the reason for having the event - the best players playing the best golf?  I haven't done the research so I cannot point to this with respect to any particular course but I do believe it is the best criteria. 

Concerning Kiawah, I had gone on family vacations to Kiawah in August for at least 7 years when my kids were young and I cannot remember ever having a rain issue and there was no pattern of overnight rain. The course is a great championship venue and the logistics for many of the courses are incredibly difficult for the spectators.  Golf allows the spectator to arrive in the morning and spend the entire day which can be 12 or 14 hours at the course so an hour getting to and from and course is really not that bad.   

[David_Elvins]

David,

RL&SA has a good set of green complexes and the a back nine which few courses rival from a GCA point of view. The playing surfaces have plenty of contours to make for interesting play. As for no views of the see well you don't see the ocean from Royal Birkdale either and I fail to see what is wrong with having the clubhouse so close to the green but maybe you could enlighten me.

To me it seemed that RL&SA was included as a token gesture so as not to appear to be just criticising US courses. The criticisms were in some cases factually wrong and in others statements without saying what was wrong in the view of the writer. It is obvious to me that the writer of this piece has either no appreciation of good links GCA or had not even been to the course.

Jon

No idea whether the criticisms were right or wrong, Jon, just saying that most of them have been expressed elsewhere, including on this website.  If learned members of GolfClubAtlas call it the worst course on the Open Rota, then not sure we can be too critical of someone else jumping to the same conclusion.  Not that it isn't debatable, just that it isn't unreasonable.  I am not defending every selection on the list, just that it is a reasonable list.