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Cliff Hamm

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Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2012, 10:57:47 AM »
Is there any more impressive course on the list than Whitinsville? It is now ranked 106, up from 129, and it's only nine holes!!!!!  

Wittensville outranks such courses as Greenbrier Old White, Firestone, Oyster Harbors, Essex County, etc. etc.  Most impressive.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 11:01:32 AM by Cliff Hamm »

Howard Riefs

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Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2012, 11:05:05 AM »
No Alotian is surprising.

I imagine that Alotian didn't receive the requisite minimum of 12 votes to make the list.

Surprising, as in order for it to be on GD's top 100 (#14), it required 45 evaluations over the past eight years


http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/2011-05/100-greatest-golf-courses-methodology#ixzz1uTm3siQa
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2012, 11:11:10 AM »
While Belvedere is charming, I don't see it in the same league as Lookout Mountain, Idle Hour, French Lick Hill, Mid Pines and LuLu - courses ranked behind it that I've played.  I'd put in on par with Fircrest.  

Am I missing something at Belvedere?  I found the first nine rather pedestrian with the exception of nice subtleties in the greens.

Bogey

Mike:

The back nine at Belvedere is really quite interesting.  I love 11 and 12 in particular.  It might be that the highs at Belvedere are higher than the highs at Idle Hour.  But French Lick, in particular, is underrated.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2012, 11:30:23 AM »
Doc, in addition to the two holes you mentioned I also liked the 13th and 16th.  There are really no weak holes on the back at Belvedere.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2012, 11:38:08 AM »
Every time I see Quintero on one of these lists, my opinion of golf course ratings drops even further.

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2012, 11:56:03 AM »
Ha!  It's funny to read OSU Scarlet (#199 Classic) as having Al MacKenzie as the architect.  At this point, it's a JN modern.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2012, 12:22:30 PM »
Every time I see Quintero on one of these lists, my opinion of golf course ratings drops even further.

Matthew, this course was once ranked as high as 61 on the modern list.  You should be delighted that it is steadily free-falling its way off the list.  BTW, I agree with your assessment.  The par three course built into the range was the best thing there.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2012, 12:35:53 PM »
Every time I see Quintero on one of these lists, my opinion of golf course ratings drops even further.

Matthew, this course was once ranked as high as 61 on the modern list.  You should be delighted that it is steadily free-falling its way off the list.  BTW, I agree with your assessment.  The par three course built into the range was the best thing there.

Mike

I suppose that's true, but it's fall likely has to do with it no longer being private. This only reinforces how easily rankings seem to reflect what I would consider to be outside factors.

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2012, 12:40:37 PM »
Matthew,

Actually, your comment only illustrates how easy it is to go from a false supposition to a fixed conclusion.

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2012, 12:44:45 PM »
Matthew,

Actually, your comment only illustrates how easy it is to go from a false supposition to a fixed conclusion.

A very fair point. I suppose I should say that looking at rankings just makes me realize how much of looking at golf courses comes down to personal preference.

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2012, 12:55:34 PM »
Golf courses also change, in some cases deteriorate when they run out of money. The excitement that often accompanies a much-heralded place at opening and that is generated by an attending and eager stuff can also eventually deteriorate into that kind of tired, exhausted and empty feel of a place that instead of selling home lots and building houses is in fact out in the middle of nowhere and suffering a slow fade. Most of the first wave of raters tends to overrate a place anyway, which is why we need a minimum of 15 raters; ideally it would be 30, but that might take too long.

In any case, Matthew, while all of what I describe (hypothetically, of course, not to be applied in any one case) appears to be consistent with a place going from private to public, you have cause and effect confused.

Or, as social scientists will often tell you regarding cause and effect, sometimes the relationship between two phenomena is a result of them both being related to a third, dependent variable. In other words, there are reasons why places fail.

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2012, 01:06:03 PM »
I might add to this that Whitinsville while being private allows public access thru golfnow.com.  This has not hurt their ranking  I suspect there is not another private course in the rankings that does likewise.

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2012, 01:49:08 PM »
Old Elm +12

Anyone played Old Elm recently?  I played it last summer and it was pretty darn good.  But was told they are continuing a rennovation program that might last another year or two.  I was told to come back again when it was done and I'd be even more impressed.

Can't wait to see it again...it is really a nice place.

It's nice to see Old Elm getting a little more exposure as it's a really under-the-radar golf course. It's extremely fun and a real throw back. I've been lucky enough to be able to play there quite a bit thanks to a friend who's a member. I haven't been there since last summer, but the renovation work that I've seen revolves mostly around expanding greens, restoring playing angles, and removing a few trees. If there is a more extensive plan I haven't seen it. I'll be down in the area for a wedding this July and will lookout for any additional changes.

I was under the impression there were very few members at Old Elm and they were mostly, well, old.  I've always wanted to play Old Elm but alas I have never been.  Looks great, though.
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2012, 02:09:33 PM »
Sahalee is #50 on Golf Digest, but not ranked on Golf Magazine (top 100) nor does it even make the top 200 modern in GW...

That is got to be the biggest outlier between three rankings, no?

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2012, 02:28:35 PM »
Rich Harvest also #58 in Digest and doesn't make the top 200 in GW.  Time to take the Digest ratings methodology guys to the tips at Butler on tough course day, give 'em each a hit of LSD and turn 'em loose....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2012, 02:31:22 PM »
But is Rich Harvest not ranked because of quality or lack of reviewers?

I am pretty sure Sahalee has had enough GW reviewers rating it...

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2012, 02:41:12 PM »
But is Rich Harvest not ranked because of quality or lack of reviewers?


I'm guessing the former as it's apparently not quite as tough a ticket as it was initially.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2012, 03:06:52 PM »
Rich Harvest Farms has plenty of GW votes, 25 in all, which is precisely why it's rated where it is.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2012, 08:56:09 PM »
Is there any more impressive course on the list than Whitinsville? It is now ranked 106, up from 129, and it's only nine holes!!!!!  

Wittensville outranks such courses as Greenbrier Old White, Firestone, Oyster Harbors, Essex County, etc. etc.  Most impressive.

I can`t wait to see it. Should have some thoughts tomorrow night. :)

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2012, 09:11:48 PM »
Looks like Nanea has 12-14 votes otherwise it would be 20th.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2012, 10:57:25 PM »
Is there any more impressive course on the list than Whitinsville? It is now ranked 106, up from 129, and it's only nine holes!!!!!  

Wittensville outranks such courses as Greenbrier Old White, Firestone, Oyster Harbors, Essex County, etc. etc.  Most impressive.

At least with the Dunes Club (which I haven't played), it seems that there are multiple tees that make the holes play substantially different.  At Whitinsville, there are a few standout holes, but the multiple tees do not change the experience from play to play.

Whitinsville may be the best 9-hole classic golf course in the US, but it is really not above the level of about 25 other classic courses in Southern New England.  It just seems strange to me that "being one of the best 9-holers" is a novelty enough to make a golf course even #106 (or even on any rankings at all) above many other great layouts from #106-200.  It's like being the best AAA team in baseball!
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Mark Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2012, 11:13:33 PM »
Old Elm +12

Anyone played Old Elm recently?  I played it last summer and it was pretty darn good.  But was told they are continuing a rennovation program that might last another year or two.  I was told to come back again when it was done and I'd be even more impressed.

Can't wait to see it again...it is really a nice place.

It's nice to see Old Elm getting a little more exposure as it's a really under-the-radar golf course. It's extremely fun and a real throw back. I've been lucky enough to be able to play there quite a bit thanks to a friend who's a member. I haven't been there since last summer, but the renovation work that I've seen revolves mostly around expanding greens, restoring playing angles, and removing a few trees. If there is a more extensive plan I haven't seen it. I'll be down in the area for a wedding this July and will lookout for any additional changes.


That is the one course in chicago i've never been able to get on.   Seen a bunch of pictures and looks as good as any course on the north shore if not better.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2012, 12:54:04 AM »

Anyone run this list through spell-check before publishing?
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2012, 05:00:40 AM »
Mike Benham, please email me or send me a message through GCA and we'll address any spelling mistakes you find.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golfweek's Next-100 Classic and Next-100 Modern posted
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2012, 06:44:44 AM »
Is there any more impressive course on the list than Whitinsville? It is now ranked 106, up from 129, and it's only nine holes!!!!!  

Wittensville outranks such courses as Greenbrier Old White, Firestone, Oyster Harbors, Essex County, etc. etc.  Most impressive.

At least with the Dunes Club (which I haven't played), it seems that there are multiple tees that make the holes play substantially different.  At Whitinsville, there are a few standout holes, but the multiple tees do not change the experience from play to play.

Whitinsville may be the best 9-hole classic golf course in the US, but it is really not above the level of about 25 other classic courses in Southern New England.  It just seems strange to me that "being one of the best 9-holers" is a novelty enough to make a golf course even #106 (or even on any rankings at all) above many other great layouts from #106-200.  It's like being the best AAA team in baseball!

Looks like you need to go rater school ;)
I'm partial to 9 holers so I'd probably go along with the groupthink, but no doubt there are a lot of quality courses with 18 holes ranked behind it.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

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