[Greg Tallman]

Related adn ironic:

Two of my best friends on the planet designeda nd built what was a pretty decent track for the local area and was easily the best public access facility within an hour at the very least.

THE BANK dictated that they build the clubhouse prior to opening. Millions later and saddled with debt they opened the facility. They made a go of it for a few years but the debt created by the clubhouse construction was simply too much and they lost the project... back to the very people who forced them to build the damn thing to begin with.

You must not have been reading about our financial crisis the past four years.  This is exactly how banks operate ... lend you money for something you can't really afford, and then TAKE IT FROM YOU when you finally figure it out ... unless you do SO well that they only keep their 6% plus the fees they made for securitizing your mortgage.

A slight difference between the predatory lending that was going on and dictating the physical facilities that must be in place midway through construction of the golf course and development infrastructure.

[Bill Brightly]

Greg,

That is an interesting and sad story, but I have to ask how hard did they look for other banks? Was THE BANK the only bank? Was their model a golfing only faccility? If yes, why did they agree to the big clubhouse?

[Stewart Naugler]

I just got my new issue of GOLF INC. magazine, which devotes half its pages to "25 Big Ideas" that could stimulate and empower the golf industry into the future.  I won't scoop them on all their great ideas here. 

Then I turned the page, and see that they awarded the "Clubhouse of the Year" for 2011 to the amazing clubhouse at Martis Camp -- all 73,485 square feet of it!  There's an idea on how to power the golf industry, straight into oblivion.

Thanks Tom, I wish more people "got it" like you do. You understand every aspect of the business and I've always respected you for that.

Spread the word!

[Mike_Young]

I just got my new issue of GOLF INC. magazine, which devotes half its pages to "25 Big Ideas" that could stimulate and empower the golf industry into the future.  I won't scoop them on all their great ideas here. 

Then I turned the page, and see that they awarded the "Clubhouse of the Year" for 2011 to the amazing clubhouse at Martis Camp -- all 73,485 square feet of it!  There's an idea on how to power the golf industry, straight into oblivion.

Thanks Tom, I wish more people "got it" like you do. You understand every aspect of the business and I've always respected you for that.

Spread the word!

SNaugler,
Yes....Tom does get it but the really sad thing that most on here don't realize is that most of the people selling this stuff to the unknowing also get it..   but they keep doing it...all the Big sigs know what they are doing...and so do the Clubhouse architects...

[William_G]

pg. 44 of Golf Inc. has Nicklaus design leading with 58 new courses around the world from 2007 -2011....that IS leading but in what direction?

[John Shimp]

Martis camp is complete with a "Fazio golf experience" as well.  What does that mean?

It means, "awesome."

 My interpretation is more like 3 people tripping over each other to get my bag out of my car as another hands me a bottled water i dont need. Yes sir, no sir, can i escort you to the range sir.   Someone whose not a caddy wiping off my clubs at an over the top bag stand on the range complete w snacks, bug spray, lotion as i hurry to get out on the course and begin my cart ball to get away from all the unneeded service or "awesome"ness as u put it.  Then bison sliders, sushi, and artisan elk jerky at the turn before wrapping up at the 70k sqft lodge for a $100 lunch.

I did hear its a good course though.

[Stewart Naugler]

I hear you Mike! It's just always been sad to me growing up at a country club where my Dad was the general manager and golf course superintendent. I learned math by watching him do the daily numbers every night and he would always preach to me about how the food/beverage department struggled to break even. The golf course made all the money... Surprise!

Still though, the members were always willing to invest into the clubhouse but it took us 5 years to sell a new automatic irrigation system to them. We went from an old manual system to a state-of-the-art computerized system that paid for itself in no time.

[JC Jones]

 My interpretation is more like 3 people tripping over each other to get my bag out of my car as another hands me a bottled water i dont need. Yes sir, no sir, can i escort you to the range sir.   Someone whose not a caddy wiping off my clubs at an over the top bag stand on the range complete w snacks, bug spray, lotion as i hurry to get out on the course and begin my cart ball to get away from all the unneeded service or "awesome"ness as u put it.  Then bison sliders, sushi, and artisan elk jerky at the turn before wrapping up at the 70k sqft lodge for a $100 lunch.

I did hear its a good course though.

Of course Fazio would have nothing to do with any of that other than your last statement.  He is a golf course designer, the Fazio golf experience would be limited to the experience on the golf course.

I'm consistently amazed by how much he cognoscenti project things on to the course designer that have nothing to do with the course.  But feel free to rate the architecture low because you don't want someone to offer you bug spray before you head out. 

[John Shimp]

JC,

 Fazio's architecture and reputation are tightly tied to these types of experiential places.   That isn't a bad thing if yoiu are him trying to make a lot of money or Michael Meldman selling expensive over the top real estate projects.  Nothing wrong with any of that. But to say he has nothing to do with creating the "fazio experience" and doesnt enjoy being connected to those places and feeding that product is not quite right.  His style is expensive and splashy like the 70k sqft lodge. He is tightly connected to Discovery and their projects.

[JC Jones]

Firstly, I never said "he doesn't enjoy being connected to those places."  That is ridiculous for you to put those words into my post.  Of course he enjoys being involved in those developments or my guess is he would turn down the fee.

Nonetheless, you seem to know an awful lot about the relationship of Fazio and Discovery and how much input Fazio has into whether they will be serving elk jerky or how big the clubhouse is going to be.  Which begs the question, why did you ask what the "Fazio golf experience" was when clearly you know more (or speculate more) than anyone here.

I think that until one knows for sure whether Discovery runs the schematics of the clubhouse past Fazio for his approval, its probably safer to say that Fazio designs the golf course and it is a Fazio golf course and the experience one has playing a Fazio golf course that they are referring to when they say "Fazio golf experience."

[Greg Tallman]

Greg,

That is an interesting and sad story, but I have to ask how hard did they look for other banks? Was THE BANK the only bank? Was their model a golfing only facility? If yes, why did they agree to the big clubhouse?

Bill, It was a relatively small area and their banker WAS a friend. Why agree? Well, you are 70% of the way through building your golf course and you are putting in the infrastructure for phase one of the development when some money is required... the bank(their "buddy") bascially said no problem but only if you go ahead and build the clubhouse, we do not think you can sell any homes/land without the clubhouse. Downward spiral from that moment forward. Some poor planning on their part? Sure, but they wanted no part of the clubhouse for at least 5 years.

As for what the long term model was... It was designed to eventually transition to a private "country club" facility... yet the pool was not included in the demand from the bank.

As you say, sad story.

[Garland Bayley]

Martis camp is complete with a "Fazio golf experience" as well.  What does that mean?

It means, "awesome."

You spell awful as bad as Anthony Gray does.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()