[Paul Richards]

A recent thread talked about the best nine holes in golf that you've played.

Along those lines, I'm looking for GCA'ers "Best Front Nine Holes" in golf.


I will nominate Royal County Down.


Any other nominees?

[NAF]

I have to second RCD.

Despite playing in frigid sleet, rain, snow, hail and wind chills, I loved the front 9 so much that after I finished playing the course the second time, I skipped the back 9 and played the front a third time.  The first and 9th holes may be the best starting and finishing holes of any 9.

Although I have yet to see it Crystal Downs seems pretty strong as well..

[Craig Van Egmond]

Not being as well traveled as most, I would nominate the front 9 at Crystal Downs as my favorite.

From the opening downhill tee shot to the uphill par 3, a truly magnificent journey.

[Tom Huckaby (Guest)]

Sorry fellows, I don't know about Crystal Downs, but as much as I love RC Down (and I truly do), the front nine there is soundly surpassed by...

THE National Golf Links of America.  Here's a head to head:

1 - half (being gracious to our Irish brethren)
2 - NGLA 1up
3 - NGLA 2up
4 - NGLA 3up
5 - NGLA 4up
6 - NGLA 4up
7 - NGLA 3up (again, being as nice as possible to RCD)
8 - NGLA 4up
9 - NGLA 3up

I'd have to say the only ones really arguable are 5 and 6.  The only strong win for RCD is 9.  

BTW, Cypress is gonna be really tough re back nines, like you say Paul... but it's front nine ain't exactly chopped liver either!

TH

[redanman (Guest)]

Huck  

Beat me to it.

[Tom Huckaby (Guest)]

'Tis a no-brainer to me, redanman.  It's also on the top of my mind given my recent list and how strongly NGLA faired there...

Which reminds me, as much as people give Spyglass a hard time, it has a pretty damn strong front nine also... It likely doesn't belong in the best of the best but it's not gonna be that far off... And redanman, your fave Pebbly-poo fares well here also...

TH

[Tom Huckaby (Guest)]

'Tis a no-brainer to me, redanman.  It's also on the top of my mind given my recent list and how strongly NGLA fared there...

Which reminds me, as much as people give Spyglass a hard time, it has a pretty damn strong front nine also... It likely doesn't belong in the best of the best but it's not gonna be that far off... And redanman, your fave Pebbly-poo fares well here also...

TH

[GeoffreyC]

Does no one want to say the obvious?

Pine Valley has the strongest front and back 9's!

Huck- I'm not a fan of the match play format for courses but PV wins vs. NGLA.  I think they're both 10's and I might like to play NGLA if given the choice to play ONLY one of them as a home course but PV is that amazing.

Pebble Beach- don't even mention it in the same breath for the front 9.

[Ran Morrissett]

No bloody way, mate, RCD loses 2, 3 and 4 to NGLA! No way  

Halves maybe.

And then RCD KILLS it on 5 and 7 would be a halve.

I've got them all square when the dust settles.

However, that beast Pine Valley has the greater variety of holes and also, Yale's front nine fully restored would round out my top four selections (and not be at the back of the bus either).

Cheers,

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

I have not played the aforementioned courses, so I will throw out my best, Oakmont.

Aside from 2 and 7, I like the rest a lot.

Perhaps some of the knowledgeable can do the match play comparison on some of the others for me, so I can tell what I am missing.

[GeoffreyC]

Ran

Please don't talk about Yale FULLY RESTORED or you will have me crying all winter   .  Sadly, they are doing better on the back 9 but full restoration is not in the cards.  The powers that be are too concerned with maintenance issues.  For example here is part of a reply to my inquiry to the czar of the "restoration" about the new work on 18 and how it differs from the old photo George Bhato uncovered

 "Because you have an historical
document that shows a different green size and shape, you believe that  there is only one way to go and that is to reintroduce the original shape.  I do not have quite the same knee jerk reaction.  I think we must use the information and then determine why the green shape changed."

 

[Tom Huckaby (Guest)]

Far be it from me to be cheeky with the host... but...

Ran, kind sir, one of us is off his rocker and I don't think it's me (this time).

In NGLA v. RCDown, 2, 3, and 4 are not even close.  Like I say, I love RC Down - I really do - and I'd really love to bend the truth here... but are you REALLY gonna stick to this?

#2 - incredible strategy and brilliance at Sahara v.
#3 - only one of the top 10 par 4's on this earth v.
#4 - this is at least closer but THE REDAN is gonna win over any #4.

OK, so maybe we can argue re 5....

7 I gave as a very kind halve to RCD...

Sorry Ran, this one goes in favor of CBMac.

As for Pine Valley, I don't know it well enough to comment.  Hopefully some day....

And anyone who complete discounts the front nine at Pebble, ok, do a little match play here and see how your course fares from 4 through 9.  You'd better be 3 up after 3.

As for Yale, I'm with GC.  It's awesome as it is but to think of it completely restored is just the first step toward madness.

America's Guest #2 hath spoken.  Hear ye, hear ye.  

TH

[GeoffreyC]

TH

PV is 5 up after 5 against Pebble!

6 to Pebble
7 - half
8-9 could be a half but lets give it to pebble therefore PV wins 2 up being VERY kind to Pebble.

[Chris Kane]

Royal Melbourne West.

1st Hole is nothing extraordinary, but 2-7 would have to be close to the best stretch anywhere in the world.  

4 is the best 4 1/2 in the country, 5 is a fantastic 3, and 6 is a contender for the best par 4 in golf.  7 is another great little par 3.  

8 and 9 are also superb, although perhaps not on the level of the previous holes.

[Ken_Cotner]

Ran,

You beat me to it -- my first thought re Huck's match play was "RCD loses 2, 3, AND 4?  How do those three holes get SHUT OUT against any course?"  Guess I'll have to sneak up to Long Island at some point and see what all the fuss is about...

KC

[Tom Huckaby (Guest)]

Ken - before I saw NGLA in person, I would have thought EXACTLY like you.  Let's put it this way - this is the ONLY course on earth that's gonna win 2, 3 and 4 against RC Down.  But still, that's the way it is... When you see it ye shall understand, I truly believe.

What troubles me is our host here HAS seen it.  His eyes need re-opening.  

And GC, just as NGLA is thumping RCD here, you picked the right course to whup Pebble!  Compared to most other courses, Pebble's front nine is gonna do very well though.

Strange comparison in any case... the relative #7's couldn't be more different, could they?  So it is fair to call that a half, I guess...  8 and 9 I just can't see NOT going to Pebble - I can see that from pictures... and I might take issue with ya on 3 and 4 also... but like I say, I don't know PV well enough to say.

Some day....

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

The much maligned (ignored) front at CPC is extrememly special to me. First, just teeing off is one of the biggest thrills one could experience. Then as you golf the playable subsequent holes, the building of the crescendo as if it were sound, would be climaxed by the fun 7th awesome 8th and forgetabout it ninth.

[Tom Huckaby (Guest)]

Amen, brother Adam.  I too could go on and on about the greatness of CPC's front nine.  I am right with you there. Beyond what you said, how great is #2?  That might just be the "archetype" for strategic par 5's.  Then you keep going and the invisible bunkers (looking back) on 5 blow you away... there is something great in each and every hole.

GC - I forgot to address your comment re PV v. NGLA.  My only response here is I trust you, there's no one who's word I would more just take as is... but... I'm gonna have to be a doubting Thomas here.  Oh, I fully believe if I ever see PV I might be made a convert... but taking the perhaps-offensive religious metaphor to it's ultimate extreme, I'm gonna have to see the wounds in PV's sides and thorns in its head before I believe it's better than NGLA.  Well said about them both being 10's, in any case.  I can definitely live with that!

Same goes for the back nines in this comparison, btw.
 

TH

[GeoffreyC]

TH

You're right about #7's.  PB is a 110 yard drop shot and PV #7 is an unreachable par 5 with a bunker in the middle of it that's bigger then the whole 7th hole at PB.  That's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of this whole course match play thing.

#8 at PV is one of the GREAT short par 4's in golf. It's one of those 3 or 13 holes where you could make about any score.



Its not that cut and dry a win for PB

#9 at PV is another great par 4 with a Maxwell green that Tommy N went crazy over and gives Tom Paul  orgasms to type descriptions of.  Not a cut and dry victory for PB either!

[A_Clay_Man]

if it wasn't for the dormat bermuski I'd say we were looking at Pix of WWPB. I want to thank mr. f for the design of WW for without it I couldn't relate to these Pix of PV, someplace I'm almost certain I will never see or golf.

[NAF]

Having played RCD last month and National in October...My memory is fresh..

I have RCD vs. National as:
Tom, Man you are bulled up on National!

My take-
1st Hole-Great green at National and a great starting hole but how many par 5 openers are better than
the one at RCD..RCD 1up
2nd Hole-I think the blind drive and wee pitch at RCD beats Sahara. If you don't go for the green and
make it a mid iron and pitch hole I am not all that fancied with Sahara. RCD 2up
3rd Hole-A strong par 4 at RCD vs. the great Alps hole..Halve RCD 2up
4th Hole AS
5th hole-RCD 1up- I am not a big fan of this par 5 at National
6th-Take the short hole at National -AS
7th Hole-I know it is the Road Hole but I prefer RCD's 7th RCD- 1 up
8th Hole Although I think the Bottle hole is better at Sunningdale, National still beats RCD here-AS
9th Hole-Best #9 in Golf at RCD.. RCD wins 1up..

[Tom Huckaby (Guest)]

NAF - heck yeah I am bulled on NGLA - I was a fan before I saw it and seeing it in person in October just confirmed all I thought!  I last played RCD in September, 2000... so that's not THAT long ago...

So all that being said, we're gonna have to agree to disagree here.  Vive l' difference but we are pretty far apart on our assessments.  Here's how I see it, commenting on yours:

1st Hole-Great green at National and a great starting hole but how many par 5 openers are better than
the one at RCD..RCD 1up
Puh-leeze.  I was GENEROUS giving this as a half to RCD.  Yes, that is a fun tee shot at RCD, and it is a good hole, but after that it's pretty basic - I mean, come on, compare the greens!  All in all also, NGLA's is the perfect opener... introducing you to the fact that this is not your average golf course.  Sorry, I can't give this to RCD no way, and if I get more riled up it might go in the NGLA column!

2nd Hole-I think the blind drive and wee pitch at RCD beats Sahara. If you don't go for the green and
make it a mid iron and pitch hole I am not all that fancied with Sahara. RCD 2up
Very politely and with all due respect... You are absolutely out of your mind.  Think about all the choices, all the deception, all the freakin' GENIUS on Sahara!  To each his own here.

3rd Hole-A strong par 4 at RCD vs. the great Alps hole..Halve RCD 2up
HALVE???  HALVE???  Sorry Noel, you're talking one of the best holes on the planet here in Alps.  Absolutely no way this is a half.

4th Hole AS
You might have regained your sanity here in seemingly giving THE REDAN credit for winning TWO holes... Your math is interesting, but at least you can recognize a great par 3.

5th hole-RCD 1up- I am not a big fan of this par 5 at National
AGREED.  Whew. See, I'm not blind in my love for NGLA...

6th-Take the short hole at National -AS
Your sanity is returning.

7th Hole-I know it is the Road Hole but I prefer RCD's 7th RCD- 1 up
Again, I can live with this.

8th Hole Although I think the Bottle hole is better at Sunningdale, National still beats RCD here-AS
Thank God, you are a reasonable man.

9th Hole-Best #9 in Golf at RCD.. RCD wins 1up..
Absolutely agreed.  I have #9 at RCD in this exalted position in my best holes list.

So I guess it comes down to the assessment of 1 through 4.., the best opening stretch in all of golf at NGLA is gonna win against ANY course.

We can battle this in person come January!

Cheers.

TH

[Tom Huckaby (Guest)]

GC - thanks for the pics, but they haven't swayed me.  PB still easily wins 8 and 9.  Perhaps it's closer than one might think, but these are still clear victories for PB, at least to me.

Again, this might change if I see such in person but for now, I am standing strong and proud for PB!

TH

[Clooney13]

Having never played those impossible to get on courses like Crystal Downs, or Pine Valley, the best front nine I've played is Highlands Links.

Later

[Gene Greco]

Royal County Down. Its perfect - vicious and relentless, pristine, wild and wooley!  

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