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TEPaul

Royal County Down and Oakmont
« on: December 08, 2001, 03:47:06 PM »
On the thread on the firmest conditions I played in 2001 I named Royal County Down and Oakmont as two of the four firm and fast ones. I also said that both of these courses (in the last few months anyway) had the most perfect "maintenance melds" I've ever seen!

But I've been thinking since I played them that these two diverse courses seem very much like close first cousins to me strategically! First of all for those who haven't played Oakmont in the last year the tree removal is unbelievable. I actually know how many trees came out but to protect the innocent I ain't saying.

But with these two perfect "maintenance melds" on these two fantastic courses the architecture is completely highligted so it actually quite easy to pick up a ton of the nuances on both courses in a couple of sittings each! My impression is that both these courses definitely tend to the penal side more than the strategic side but really that's too easy an explanation. They are both very strategic too but not much in the choice of what direction to take but very much in the choice of how much distance you want to try for and how much you trust the accuracy of any particular club in your bag, particularly off the tees!

So both to me are strategic but what I would call "center strategic" or "distance optional strategic", particularly on the tee shots. Although neither actually have bunkers flanking every fairway you certainly get that feeling all day! Basically these are two courses that you really need to concentrate hard on hitting fairways! Neither course has trees flanking the fairways like Pine Valley but you sort of get the feeling you need to keep the ball on the fairways about like the Valley--but at the Valley you have a larger choice of fairway spots or angles to use!

Holes like #10 and #12, maybe #15 Oakmont are quite similar in their strategic ramifications to holes like #3 and #12 and maybe even #13 RCD. With both very firm if you want to play safe with accuracy you can take something other than a driver but you generally have the flanking (and very much collecting) bunkers to deal with. And if you want to try to get beyond the flanking bunkers you can but then you get yourself into some fairway humps and bumps, slopes and contour on both courses where you really have to watch what your doing.

Even holes like #16 RCD and #17 Oakmont have similar strategic ramifications although they look nothing alike. Again, the "maintenance melds" on these two courses was as good as I've ever seen. Both courses can feel initimidating and not exactly warm and friendly, if you know what I mean, but from what I saw the way their "maintenance melds" were it exposed some of the very best and sophisticated architecture I've seen.

So good in fact, that although I hate rating and ranking I would put Royal County Down and Oakmont in my top five in the world for their architecture. That sort of hurts to say because I do have three others in mind in that top five but there are about five more I would like to put in there too!

But RCD and Oakmont were unbelievable! RCD has a new super, BTW, and Oakmont's super is obviously on top of his game too! You're on top of your game too with the course Mark!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal County Down and Oakmont
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2001, 04:09:41 PM »
Tom,

Given that Oakmont relies so much on its greens and given that RCD relies on everything but its greens, I am surprised that you call them 'close first cousins'.

For instance, doesn't the amazing fallaway 10th green at Oakmont give that hole completely different playing characteristics/challenges to the 3rd at RCD?

On the other hand, I would probably consider those two courses (along with WF-W) the toughest that I've ever seen. So in that aspect they are quite similiar indeed!

By the way, do you think that you would enjoy playing Oakmont everyday? I vascillate back on forth on that one - and that seems a pretty big question, especially if you consider it in your top 5 architecturally!

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal County Down and Oakmont
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2001, 04:55:37 PM »
Tom,
When did you play Oakmont, I played in June before the new tees on 12 and 15 were put in.

The course was in beautiful shape, as well conditioned a course as I had seen.  I had played Mystic Rock the day before and Pete Dye GC the day before that.  Mystic Rock's greens were playing around 7 (then it rained), so the greens were extra fast, a tough adjustment.

As for Ran's question Oakmont is definitely in my top five and I could play it happily everyday.  I think I would always think I would be able to play better the next day,  :).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Royal County Down and Oakmont
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2001, 07:09:51 PM »
Ran:

You've definitely got a point there about Oakmont's greens. They aren't much like RCD's. Actually day in and day out there are few courses in the world with greens that play like Oakmont. I was thinking more about what the player faces and feels on the tees. Both courses sure give me similar impressions with the highly penal flanking bunkers. Of course Oakmont doesn't have RCD's in your face blind tee shots and RCD has more cross features and such.

Maybe I'm wrong about the first cousin strategically thing  between the two "through the green" but that's just the way I felt on them--high intensity level kind of thing on the tees. I sort of remember you're not a huge fan of Oakmont for some reason, but you might want to revisit that impression and take another look at it.

Approaching the greens and putting on them is very good at RCD but Oakmont is a just a cut above to me. Holes like #2, #3, #6, #7, #8, #13!, #17 & #18 at RCD are great fun to puttt but almost everyone of Oakmont's is a super challenge and I love that kind of fun. Damn right I could play Oakmont everyday! It would beat me up I'm sure but I did have a good day last time around--sunk a lot of putts and chipped in a couple of times.

Ben:

I played Oakmont in the beginning of October and RCD in the beginning of Sept.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal County Down and Oakmont
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2001, 07:21:27 PM »
Tom,
Did you see the new tees, was there much difference, or was it simply a length thing?
Ben
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Royal County Down and Oakmont
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2001, 08:08:58 PM »
Ben:

No. I didn't see them but was told on a few holes where some were slated to go. There are a few Oakmont fellows who buzz around Golfclubatlas now and then and if they see this maybe they'll mention more about that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Royal County Down and Oakmont
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2001, 08:15:44 PM »
Tom Paul:

Nice to see your comments about the work John Zimmers is doing at Oakmont.  You won't meet many more dedicated people.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Tim Weiman

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