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JNC Lyon

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2012, 09:33:03 PM »
My two favorites (for very different reasons) are:

Mullen, NE.  It does get promotion on this site, but it definitely doesn't get promoted elsewhere.  I haven't seen Sand Hills or Dismal River ads in any magazine.  And Scott, knowing your sense of adventure, you would love the journey out there.  Throw Ballyneal and Bayside along the way, and that's a hell of a golf trip.

Philadelphia.  Merion and Pine Valley are obviously the highlights, but you'll get a liberal arts education in American golf architecture in the Philly.  With a smattering of public and private courses, you can get the work of every significant golden age architect who did work in the United States within an hour of Central Philadelphia.  Plus you can add some neat modern courses as well.  The well-known privates are good options, as little-known publics  like Inniscrone, Paxon Hollow, Morgan Hill, or Galen Hall (to name a few).  And Philly is just a really cool town too.

I sorta like Upstate New York too.  It's definitely a notch or two below the Philly area as far as overall quality, but there are some really neat courses in this neck of the woods.  You just have to know the right people.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 09:34:45 PM by JNC Lyon »
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Mark Saltzman

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2012, 10:01:21 PM »
JNC, how about Rochester? Obviously Oak Hill E gets press, but there is an abundance of quality Ross there, no?

JNC Lyon

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2012, 10:04:51 PM »
JNC, how about Rochester? Obviously Oak Hill E gets press, but there is an abundance of quality Ross there, no?

Yes, six Ross courses including the East Course--and they are all pretty different from one another.  Add in CCB, Bellevue, and Teugega and you have a Ross extravaganza in Upstate New York.  Plus Walter Travis did a bunch of work up here as well.  It's a bit scattered up here, but there is a lot of good stuff to see if you look for it.  Plus everything is insanely cheap.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Bill Brightly

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2012, 10:20:18 PM »
My two favorites (for very different reasons) are:

Mullen, NE.  It does get promotion on this site, but it definitely doesn't get promoted elsewhere.  I haven't seen Sand Hills or Dismal River ads in any magazine.  And Scott, knowing your sense of adventure, you would love the journey out there.  Throw Ballyneal and Bayside along the way, and that's a hell of a golf trip.

Philadelphia.  Merion and Pine Valley are obviously the highlights, but you'll get a liberal arts education in American golf architecture in the Philly.  With a smattering of public and private courses, you can get the work of every significant golden age architect who did work in the United States within an hour of Central Philadelphia.  Plus you can add some neat modern courses as well.  The well-known privates are good options, as little-known publics  like Inniscrone, Paxon Hollow, Morgan Hill, or Galen Hall (to name a few).  And Philly is just a really cool town too.



Jon, while everything you said is true (and you could add Doak at Stonewall, Coore & Crenshaw at Hidden Creek, and Hanse at Applebrook) your answer is stricken because Scott's original post asked what area does not get "regular, emphatic promotion"... I think the cheescakes have that covered on GCA, don't you? :)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 10:23:01 PM by Bill Brightly »

Bill Brightly

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2012, 10:35:25 PM »
For those of you suggesting New Mexico, what months can you play golf in the Sante Fe area?

Andy Troeger

Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2012, 11:11:49 PM »
Bill,
Depends on what you can tolerate in terms of cold. The courses at 5,000 feet give or take are open year-round except for the occasional snow closing. I think that Marty Sanchez, which is a good municipal course in Santa Fe, is in that category too. Black Mesa is open at least most of the time. Paa-Ko Ridge closes for three months (Dec, Jan, Feb), but its on the backside of the mountain and is at about 7,000 feet.

I wouldn't really recommend visiting in the winter, however, if your plan is golf. The grass is dormant and occasionally frozen, so the courses that are open cut three (give or take) semi-permanent pin locations that are rotated. It can be a fun way to play, including the occasional need to play for the ball to take some crazy bounces on rock-hard frozen surfaces, but its not going to give you much flavor for the area. Spring gets really windy, so the "nice" time of the year is May-November.

Bill Brightly

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2012, 10:43:10 AM »
Thanks, Andy.  Sante Fe is on the wife's list of places she has to go to... so I guess that is out as a winter trip, because I most definitely want to work golf into the itinerary!

Mike Hendren

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2012, 11:05:12 AM »
We quickly gravitate to the privates, but if I can get a two-day weather window, I'm hitting and running to Indianapolis in the next few weeks to play a few of these publics:

Trophy Club
The Fort
Brickyard Crossing
Plum Creek
Prairie View
Purgatory

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Mark Saltzman

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2012, 11:15:37 AM »
Scott,

The truth is you can find good to great golf just about anywhere. Sometimes it amazes me the quality of golf all over the place. We spend so much time discussing just a handful of courses, but there are lots more that could be discussed and can be learned from.

I already mentioned OK.

But last year I travelled for a few days to Salt Lake / Park City in Utah. Other than Matt Ward's discussion of Red Ledges and Glenwild, I had no idea what courses were there (ie they are never discussed).

In doing some research I came up with a list of about a dozen courses that looked very worth seeing. Of the ones I saw, the following I very much enjoyed:

Salt Lake CC
Glenwild
Victory Ranch
Promontory Dye
Soldier Hollow Gold

Put those 5 together and you have one heck of a trip to a place no one talks about!

Kalen Braley

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2012, 11:47:13 AM »
Mark,

I used to talk a lot about Utah courses when I lived there....but that's been 2+ years now.

Brad Tufts

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2012, 03:27:55 PM »
Here's my post from December 2004 on this topic.  I will add that some folks (Spaulding) will scoff at the below, as it does not contain any "name courses" found in the top 50, but there are so many great places to play. 

All,

     I think the most underrated destination area for golf is Northern New England.  Either as a group, or separated into its three distinct parts of Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine, Northern New England sports quality golf that is:

1. Accessible, be the course open to public or resort play

2. Not too expensive, as one will not find a course that costs more than $90-$100, with many well below that

3.  Filled with history.  Ross lived for a time in Mass, and later had an office in RI, a relatively short train trip from the endless forests and rocky glacial features of NE.   He did many courses in NH and ME, and couple in VT. This included some well-known favorites, as well as some fun, quirky courses you have never heard of.  Also, many other "Golden Age" or earlier architects made their mark in the Northeast, including Travis, Findlay, Fenn, Park, and Stiles. 

4.  Played in a mild climate.  All of the major golf mags have features on NE, VT especially just before leaf-peeking season in Oct.  This misses the wonderful summer season.  As long as you don't mind a few mosquitoes at dusk, the temps. never rise much above 80 degress in the summer.  Also, despite the harsh winters, golf can be played well into November after the occasional frost delay.

5.  Surrounded by many, many diversions.  These include the Green and White Mountains in VT and NH respectively, the many pure lakes and streams in all three states, and Maine's breathtaking seacoast.  All three states also offer many insights into American colonial history.

6.  Better than the Cape.  Cape Cod golf includes close to 70 courses, public and private, and has many good venues.  However, all of the public courses seem to be locked in at about $85-$120 a round, regardless of their quality relative to the course down the street.  To avoid crowds, you must take a chance with the weather in May or late season.  Also, the Cape is a huge mess of traffic every summer weekend, and you must always wait for a time to get over either of the bridges.  Where can you make tee times at a moment's notice and play in four hours or less in mid-summer?  Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont.

Those planning a trip will be fortunate to find that almost all golf in these three states is accessible.  Economies are not really strong enough to support many private clubs in these areas, but there are a few.  If access is not a problem, Maine has Augusta CC and Portland CC by Ross, Prouts Neck by ?, York Golf & Tennis by Ross.  NH has Bald Peak, Lake Sunapee, Manchester CC by Ross, and Vermont has Ekwanok by Travis, Dorset Field Club, one of the oldest clubs in the nation, Burlington by Ross, CC of Vermont by Cooke, and Vermont National by Nicklaus.

However, the point of this post is the great courses anyone can play.  A quick rundown:

ME:  Golden Age:  Cape Arundel by Travis, Webhannet by Wogan, Kebo Valley by Leeds (same as Myopia)  Penobscot Valley, Poland Spring (orig. by Fenn), Cape Neddick, Biddeford-Saco, Northeast Harbor by Ross (Ross/Strong), and Boothbay Region, Bath CC by Stiles (both 9 Stiles and 9 new).  Last 20 years:  Belgrade Lakes by Clive Clark, Point Sebago, The Ledges in York, Samoset Resort, Fox Ridge in Auburn, and Sugarloaf by RTJ, which in my opinion, is remote, expensive, brutal, and not always in good shape.

NH:  Golden Age:  By Ross:  Wentworth-by-the-Sea, Mt. Washington Hotel GC, The Balsams (one of the best Ross courses I've ever seen, although almost in Canada), Maplewood Casino, Bethlehem CC, Kingswood GC.  By Ralph Barton, red. by Ron Prichard, Hanover CC.  By Park, North Conway CC.  Last 20 years:  CC of New Hampshire, Canterbury Woods, the two courses at Bretwood, and the controversial course at the Shattuck.

VT(my favorite):  Golden Age:  By Ross, Woodstock GC (red. by many), by Stiles, Rutland CC (highly recommended), by Travis, red. by Rees Jones, Equinox, St. Johnsbury by Park, and the very fun 9-holer, John P. Larkin CC, which is a hidden gem for me even though i spent 4 college yrs. in VT.  Last 20 years:  Green Mountain National, Ralph Myhre GC in Middlebury (!!), Okemo Valley GC, and several other courses affiliated with ski resorts that should have stuck to the operation of their ski facilities.  Taconic in Williamstown, MA is also only an hour from Ekwanok.

There are many other courses than mentioned above where a good game can be had.  I know that some members of the DG know some things about the courses above, and some would scoff at Ross's name being still connected with what is on the ground today in some places, but many of his routings still exist, and to my eye, the spirit of his design still exists.  Also, some laugh at courses that lack tees beyond 6300 yds.  In my experience, some of the shorter courses are much more interesting than those ready for the tour.  N. NE is full of these.  The emphasis is fun golf with a bit of history. 

Only one word of caution when traveling in N. NE:  Those used to driving great distances out west will laugh when they see that Burlington, VT and Portland, ME are only 250 miles apart.  The drive time between these two places is not three hours, it is more like five or six, and you will feel as though you have driven much further.  The Green and White Mountains run North-South in VT and NH, respectively, and in many cases you have to drive around them on non-interstate roads.  Rural roads often are long and unpredictable, but the extra time can be spent taking in the scenery.  My recommendation would be to choose a golf weeked or vacation in only one of the three places, as traveling between them sometimes adds stress, which is of course what you are there to alleviate.

--Brad 
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2012, 09:52:53 PM »
The funny thing is most of the USA not on the east or west coast fits your description. 75% of our discussions are on those courses. The main variable is how many months a year do you want good weather to play in. The closer to 12 months you desire the more south you go.

Scott Warren

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2012, 10:12:17 PM »
That's a great post, Brad.

I'm glad a few folks have used this thread to make a pitch for the attractions of a favoured area.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2012, 10:22:49 PM »
My two favorites (for very different reasons) are:

Mullen, NE.  It does get promotion on this site, but it definitely doesn't get promoted elsewhere.  I haven't seen Sand Hills or Dismal River ads in any magazine.  And Scott, knowing your sense of adventure, you would love the journey out there.  Throw Ballyneal and Bayside along the way, and that's a hell of a golf trip.

Philadelphia.  Merion and Pine Valley are obviously the highlights, but you'll get a liberal arts education in American golf architecture in the Philly.  With a smattering of public and private courses, you can get the work of every significant golden age architect who did work in the United States within an hour of Central Philadelphia.  Plus you can add some neat modern courses as well.  The well-known privates are good options, as little-known publics  like Inniscrone, Paxon Hollow, Morgan Hill, or Galen Hall (to name a few).  And Philly is just a really cool town too.



Jon, while everything you said is true (and you could add Doak at Stonewall, Coore & Crenshaw at Hidden Creek, and Hanse at Applebrook) your answer is stricken because Scott's original post asked what area does not get "regular, emphatic promotion"... I think the cheescakes have that covered on GCA, don't you? :)

I mean, there is a lot of discussion of Philly golf on the site here, though I'm not sure if that qualifies as emphatic promotion.  I haven't seen any magazine ads for Cobb's Creek (yet).
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2012, 10:24:37 PM »
That's a great post, Brad.

I'm glad a few folks have used this thread to make a pitch for the attractions of a favoured area.

Scott, it's just a massive country, and you've only seen the coasts.  There is interesting golf and adventure in almost any place you travel to in the U.S.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Scott Warren

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2012, 10:54:25 PM »
Well, the coasts and Arizona and Nevada. But you're correct. And I am sure there is interesting golf adventure to be had everywhere, but I am sure there has to be epicentres -- given golf is the primary concern here -- that deserve much more discussion than they get.

mike_beene

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Re: In what area of America...
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2012, 11:09:29 PM »
Pine Needles,MidPines and Pinehurst 2

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