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Gaga (Guest)

Ballybunion Access
« on: January 04, 2002, 06:52:48 AM »
I've been away for a while and now return with a request for a favor!   :)  With input from this site, I and seven friends have planned a trip to Ireland for this August.  We'll be there for just over two weeks and are playing [almost] all of the "must plays" from Lahinch to Royal Portrush, counter-clockwise, including 72 holes at both RCD and Royal Portrush.  ;D

We had difficulty pinning down times (even getting a response) to our inquiries for times at Ballybunion.  When they did respond, we learned that our first choice--August 12--would not work as the courses are closed for maintenance.  When we inquired about August 13 or 14 and [finally] got a response, all tee times were booked.  We're now waitlisted and concerned that we won't be able to experience this wonderful course.  :-[

I hope that this is not regarded as a shameful act on this site, but does anyone know anyone who might be able to help us get two tee times on Ballybunion Old (preferably) on either August 13 or 14?  The 11th could possibly work but only as a last resort.  I float this request because we're planning this trip ourselves and have no travel agency assistance.

Any help is greatly appreciated!  :)  My email address is albrecht@kandf.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2002, 08:44:12 AM »
Gaga,

Generally speaking, people on this site with connections to famous venues don't want to respond to access requests.  You are right to be sensitive to that.

But, as someone very familiar with Ballybunion, I'll share this advice:

Go to Ballybunion for a beer and you'll get a game.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

THuckaby2

Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2002, 08:46:52 AM »
Tim:  that would work for a single definitely, two players probably, but for EIGHT?

When I was there in Sept. 2000, it was pretty "tight".  I can't imagine 8 players talking their way on, no matter HOW silver-tongued!

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2002, 08:59:07 AM »
Gaga,

You must be mad to think that you are going to get on with 8 of you.  If I was organising a trip to Ireland for 8 I would be applying for greenfees now for 2003 not 2002!!

And to travel over in August with eight is optimistic and I am not sure the locals anywhere will appreciate eight people from anywhere trying to muscle in on playing times..

That is what I call a society day and normally all applications have to be in writing..

Good luck though, hope you have all the other tee times booked now!! :-/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2002, 10:10:10 AM »
Gaga:

Your best bet is to go through a legitimate Tour Operator.

Having travelled to Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England
about 7 times, the best I can recommend is John Bitner
of Grasshopper Golf Tours.  The phone number there is
630-858-1660.

John has set up trips for groups as small as just my wife and
I for our Anniversary, all the way up to our trip last year,
that had 19 guys, coming and going, and covered Northern
Ireland, Scotland, and England! :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2002, 10:13:28 AM »
Tom:

I stand corrected, having missed the fact that Gaga wants two tee tees for a total of eight players.

That's kind of why I prefer traveling solo or with just one friend.  It's a lot easier to just go for beers and forget about all the planning.  But, it seems most American visitors to Ireland these days are being more formal.

I remember the first time a friend from Ballybunion sent me down to Dooks.  Despite all my trips to Ireland, I was still very American and couldn't help but ask "do I need to set up a tee time?"

"Oh, don't be so fussy", he replied, "just go".

And I did....... with an American friend on his first trip to Ireland who was horrified I'd risk being so casual about the whole thing.

At Dooks, I ran into resistence.

"This really isn't a good time..........but could you play in ten minutes?".

Not even enough time for a beer!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

Gaga

Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2002, 10:17:35 AM »
Brian,

We started the process early and have had virtually no problems securing tee times for our group at Lahinch, Doonbeg, Tralee, Waterville, Old Head, The European Club, The Island Club, Portmarnock, RCD, Royal Portrush and Portstewart.  Ballybunion has been the only challenge.  I am surprised to hear that the locals might be upset with Americans "taking" their tee times.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2002, 10:26:06 AM »
Ballybunion has indeed become the Muirfield of Ireland - damn hard to get a guest time there - they cut back on such a lot in the last few years.  Doable, as Tim can attest, but it's not the old days any more...

Which is why when I planned my trip, I started with a huge range of available dates and planned everything else around what Ballybunion gave us!

Good luck!

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2002, 10:30:29 AM »
Gaga,

Folks in Ballybunion are very welcoming, but we tend to forget that it is a private club, just not what we think of as a private club here in the States.

Basically, the demand for golf at Ballybunion has grown enormously in the last ten years, so much so that members have decided to cut back on outside play during the summer months.  Thus, it is not going to get any easier to play the Old Course anytime in the foreseeable future, at least not during the peak months.

I go over about 3-4 times per year.  In 2001, my trips were in January, March, June and September.  Perhaps I'm just crazy, but I'd say the weather in January was as good as the other times and it was a delight to play.  I realize you are not going to change your travel plans, but someday go back and be more adventurous.  You won't have any trouble finding an enjoyable game at Ballybunion.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2002, 10:32:19 AM »
Tim,

My Dooks experience exactly!

Same at The Island, only better. There I got a game, lunch before, dinner after and a photo op with the Captain of the club!

Ah, Ireland...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Twitter: @Deneuchre

mps

Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2002, 01:05:16 PM »
Be more flexible - this is a must play!  I'd check the 15th as well - I'm guessing you've got Old Head scheduled that day & you are planning to move around to different hotels each night - how about setting up at a base in Killarney for 5 nights or so & driving back & forth to Waterville, Old Head, BB, Tralee?  Juggle your schedule - it's worth it to play BB.  While you're there, don't miss BB Cashen - a common target for architectural critics but in my book a great course (if you're putting up with Tralee's architectural challenges, you won't mind the Cashen!). I like it better than Tralee, Waterville, Old Head, The Island & Portstewart (haven't played Doonbeg).  

If you can't secure an advance tee time, all 8 of you should show up as early as possible & try to get on as singles.

FYI - a good source for drive times & directions is www.theaa.co.uk - you type in your starting point & destination & it spits out directions & an estimated trip time (pretty accurate but I'd allow a little more time for tractors, sheep...).

One other suggestion, try to work in a round at Baltray (County Louth) on your way from Portmarnock to RCD.  Not a must play like RP, RCD, BB, Lahinch & Portmarnock but a worthy addition to your itinerary.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2002, 01:27:21 PM »
MPS:

Wow! It is very rare to come across a supporter of the Cashen course.

Actually, nobody loves the Cashen more than I do, not because I would argue that it is a great course, but because the land just makes me so happy to be alive.

I travel to Ballybunion 3 or 4 times a year more to be on the Cashen than the Old Course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2002, 01:35:37 PM »
Gaga,

Sorry to sound so negative, I need to use the smileys much more often.  

It's just that BB is the Muirfield of Ireland.  I would definately go for the turning up and hoping to get on as singles but maybe split up in two days, 4 at a time and maybe ask permission first.

The old trick is to have a few pints in the pubs in the local area or B&B's and chat to the locals.

Did you apply in writing to the club and another thing can you all get recommendations from your homeclubs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

THuckaby2

Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2002, 01:42:40 PM »

Quote
Gaga,

It's just that BB is the Muirfield of Ireland.  

Wish I would have said that!   ;)

I'd guess Greg has done all the proper letters, has all the proper references - that's a given.  Showing up unannounced with 8 just seems like a tall order indeed.  But you never know...

I like the "be flexible" idea more.  Give up Old Head if necessary.  Ballybunion has to be a MUST if any exists.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2002, 02:01:58 PM »
Tom Huckaby:

You may know I'm not a big fan of The Old Head.

But, I wonder about your recommendation to blow it off.  Would you say that for the guy who may make it to Ireland only once in his life?

Isn't the site itself just so amazing that you have to make it there once?

(Keep in mind its only a three hour drive from Ballybunion so staying "flexible" about access to the Old Course isn't necessarily ruled out.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

THuckaby2

Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2002, 02:09:45 PM »
Tim:  if it comes down to Ballybunion or Old Head, what would you do?

That's all I meant - this is a last-resort alternative.  Ballybunion to me is a MUST PLAY... then drive down to Old Head, go through those gates and look around - you can see damn near all you need to see from the gates and the clubhouse.  Hell yes, play it if at all possible, but if a choice has to be made, this is the nearby one I'd give up...

TH


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2002, 02:16:25 PM »
Tom:

Ballybunion or Old Head?

I'd do both!!! (Imagine that!)


Gaga:

If it's between Cashen and Old Head, Old Head for sure.

If it's between Cashen and a nap, take the nap!

If they try to sluff you off on the Cashen course, do yourself a favor and go to a pub and pound pints of Guinness instead!


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Rich_Goodale

Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2002, 02:21:49 PM »
It's been over 15 years since I was at Ballybunion, but I do know that at that time of the year, in that place, golf can be played at any time between 5:30 in the morning to 9:30 at night.  If you guys can play fast and/or outrun a gangmower you could either sneak out at sunrise, or try to get a 6 O'clock tee time while the locals are well into their 8th pint of Smithwicks.

PS--if BB is really becoming the "Muirfield of Ireland" this does not bode well for the future of the admirable lack of class distinction ususally observed of most people and at most clubs on that fine island.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2002, 02:22:52 PM »
Paul:  of course, I'd do both also. The thing is, if a choice has to be made....

Oh never mind, I said it already!

TH

ps - do you really find the Cashen that painful?  I kinda liked it... I did find it damn fun and yep, the land did make my heart sing also, as TimW says...

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2002, 02:26:09 PM »
Rich:  have no fear, Ballybunion is the "Muirfield of Ireland" only in difficulty in getting a guest tee-time... it is FAR FAR from it in "class distinction."  I can't imagine any place in Ireland, Republic or Northern, getting like that.  Closest thing I found to that was at Portrush, and compared to Muirfield it was still damn egalitarian.

Thank God.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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mps

Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2002, 02:27:09 PM »

Quote
MPS:

Wow! It is very rare to come across a supporter of the Cashen course.

Actually, nobody loves the Cashen more than I do, not because I would argue that it is a great course, but because the land just makes me so happy to be alive.

I travel to Ballybunion 3 or 4 times a year more to be on the Cashen than the Old Course.

Tim - are you saying that the Cashen is not a great course from an architectural point of view?  It sure sounds like you agree that it's a great place to play golf - which is my simplistic definition of a great course - of course I'm just a lowly hacker & not an architect (I admit it - I even like a number of Tom Fazio courses!).

The first two times I played BB Old I passed up the Cashen course due to the criticism it has received.  When I finally broke down & played it, I fell in love with it - now I sing its praises to all that will listen (but I do still prefer the Old).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2002, 02:28:40 PM »
Tom Huckaby:

I don't expect to win any arguments with Paul Richards or anyone else regarding the Cashen.

I'm not sure I even want to.  I love how few people play it.  I love being out there pretty much all alone.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

mps

Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2002, 02:32:23 PM »

Quote
MPS:

Wow! It is very rare to come across a supporter of the Cashen course.

Actually, nobody loves the Cashen more than I do, not because I would argue that it is a great course, but because the land just makes me so happy to be alive.

I travel to Ballybunion 3 or 4 times a year more to be on the Cashen than the Old Course.

Tim - are you saying that the Cashen is not a great course from an architectural point of view?  It sure sounds like you agree that it's a great place to play golf - which is my simplistic definition of a great course - of course I'm just a lowly hacker & not an architect (I admit it - I even like a number of Tom Fazio courses!).

The first two times I played BB Old I passed up the Cashen course due to the criticism it has received.  When I finally broke down & played it, I fell in love with it - now I sing its praises to all that will listen (but I do still prefer the Old).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2002, 02:48:09 PM »
MPS:

First, a little background.

Despite my recent ranting to Tommy N about Fazio, the truth is that my heart is really in Ballybunion and I dearly love the Cashen. One of my closest friends did quite a bit of work for RTJ when the course was built, both hitting balls and drawing/painting holes.

Not many people go to Ballybunion and are content to avoid the Old Course, but feel quite sad if they don't spend time on the Cashen.  I do.  There is simply no other place in the world I would rather be.  I could care less what critics say!

Now, does this great love translate into believing it is a "great course"?

Honestly, I can't say that. However, I do think it is far more enjoyable than many people give it credit for.  The course quicky established a bad reputation and that never changed.

FYI, this is an issue the club intends to address in another couple years.  Most likely Tom Watson will do the work.

Amongst the biggest complaints are how difficult it is simply to walk the course.  Thus, I think you will see subtle changes to make walking easier.  Also, starting this year the rough has been cut back in landing areas and somewhat around greens.

Will there be major surgery?  I'm guessing there won't.

So, no the Cashen isn't a "great" course architecturally.  It is just my biggest joy in golf.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballybunion Access
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2002, 03:41:41 PM »
Tim:

Not to denigrate the Cashen, but the only hole I choose
to remember is the short par 3 right near the Old courses
18th tee.  It's a good little hole.

Otherwise, you enjoy your time alone on the Cashen, and
I'll enjoy my extra pint (or two!) of Guinness!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG
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