[Mark Pearce]

One thing I like about the Scottish Club I’ve joined is that on entering competitions you inform the secretary what ‘hour’ you’d like to play and then the day before he posts the starting times and you find out who you’re playing with.  I wouldn’t  desire this for every round I play, but its a great way to get to know all the members.

At Crail the majority of competitions are run as "Ballots".  Turn up and enter at least 5 minutes before the start of the half hour slot you want to play in (so, if you want to play between 8 and 8.30, sign in and fill in your details on a card before 7.55).  Then, at the start of that time (8.00) stand on the frst tee with all the others playing in that slot.  The pro comes out and draws three cards from a bag and those three players go off.  Repeat that process until the bag is empty.  A great way of getting to know other members.

[Sean_A]

Spangles

I have never visited a private UK club where 4.5 hour 4ball was the norm.  Although, I do agree with you concerning the heathland courses.  Probably the tightest one I know is New Zealand and even there its only handful of holes which are problematic, but invariably a wider lay-up option is offered.  Mind you, the course is only 6000 yards so the big bangers like Sweet Lou shouldn't be complaining.  Courses of that length should have lots of holes where thinking on the tee is required for guys who it far - otherwise they will complain its a pushover. 

Ulrich

At most US courses folks can walk off the 18th and get a drink n' bite without changing shoes.  I wish clubs were more like this in the UK.  I always like to have a drink before changing, but it just isn't part of the culture over here - thats why a spike bar is always good news so far as I am concerned. 

Ciao

[Ulrich Mayring]

We did lose a hole in the afternoon BUDA round at Liphook, that happens very quickly sometimes. But we made up the lost ground just as quickly when (playing as two singles matches) James and I finished first and went to the next tee to tee off already. I think particularly in that format you often have a situation where one match can finish the hole quickly, while the other guys need to putt out. The key is playing "ready golf" and not "you're away".

So we did finish right after the group ahead of us, but obviously I don't know what pace they were setting. The first group out has the most responsibility.

Ulrich

[Anders Rytter]

Not sure if Denmark has the best golf culture (actually pretty sure we don't) but i guess it's decent.

Pros:
99% of rounds are walked (if not more and i'm not kidding)
Not a single strictly private course
Regional/National tournaments on all level

Cons:
After 2 drops of rain rounds played drops quite a bit
generally poor conditioning (some what due to very strict environmental regulation)
Not a lot of really good tracks
Most clubs have greens/tees closed from mid November until March/april'ish

[Ulrich Mayring]

I remember playing a lone afternoon round at Esbjerg and, coming in at 8 PM on a glorious summer evening, the clubhouse was locked. No food, no drinks and if I had used the changing room, no clothes. The members had all gone home - no wonder if the clubhouse (a very adequate building to boot) is closed. And that is not the exception, but the rule in Scandinavia.

For a single visitor like me that's fine, I can get something to eat in a restaurant nearby. But as a member that's really bothersome - you're not going to develop a golfing culture without a 19th hole that golfers

a) like to patronize and
b) that is open for business.

Ulrich

[Anders Rytter]

I remember playing a lone afternoon round at Esbjerg and, coming in at 8 PM on a glorious summer evening, the clubhouse was locked. No food, no drinks and if I had used the changing room, no clothes. The members had all gone home - no wonder if the clubhouse (a very adequate building to boot) is closed. And that is not the exception, but the rule in Scandinavia.

For a single visitor like me that's fine, I can get something to eat in a restaurant nearby. But as a member that's really bothersome - you're not going to develop a golfing culture without a 19th hole that golfers

a) like to patronize and
b) that is open for business.

Ulrich

I don't recognize your experience but i guess it differs from club to club. When ever you are in the Copenhagen area let me know and i'll show you atleast one good exception to your rule.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Yeah, my sample is 9 courses in Sweden and 5 in Denmark, so that is probably not statistically relevant. But it's all I have

Which Copenhagen club would you recommend in that regard and (perhaps a different one) for its golfing merits?

Ulrich

[Tony_Muldoon]

I wonder if Adrian is reading this thread.  The phenomenon of groups of 4 wandering form Club to Club is now firmly established in the London area.  They arrive playing the pace they learn't at pay 'n play clubs which are full of novices and make little attempt to integrate.  At the three well established privates I know 4.5hrs is the accepted time on a Saturday morning. 4 golfers approaching to join is a poisoned chalice IMO.



PS anyone else wondering what Scott Warren is doing playing full back for the Blacks?

[Mark Chaplin]

Lou it was a total set up the bottle was ALL water!!

Tony is correct that BUDA participants want to play more traditional clubs that tend to prefer quick play and have dress standards. If we want corporate style golf most of the Brits wouldn't travel let alone our great friends who travel long distances to join us.

Ulrich was the course packed or empty, it comes down to business if there isn't the custom.

[Anthony Gray]

I'm going to have to go with Thailand with this one. Just because Thailand has the best culture period. For golf the women caddies in pink outfits are second only to the drunk guy with the big red nose at Prestwick. Scotland  does get high marks also. In Scotland golf is just a simpler more peaceful game. In the US I enjoy my golf community . We have a beautiful house lined fairway course and fat people who's children have left for college running the home owners and club. Now that's great golf culture. The people in New Zealand were nice. Don't they have more courses per capita than any other country? And what can be said about the Dominican Republic? I'll tell yuo after the divorce. But Thailand is the clear winner because of the beautiful golf courses and the 19th hole. No culture does that better. Its the last ace on earth a fat bald guy can get

[Niall C]

Sven I'm sold on this idea.....not!

Goldy the small Scottish towns and villages have a wonderful attachment to their courses that I guess is only matched in parts of Ireland. However Scotland IMHO fails with it's inland courses in depth and quality, of course Gleneagles, BoG and Blairgowrie are great but the depth is lacking.

Mark

I've tried in the past to argue the contrary, particularly in comparison to England and I always get the Heathland courses quoted at me which is hard to argue against, and just because of sheer weight in numbers such England for example, Scotland isn't likely to have the great depth of others. However I think the perception that Scotland has only a few quality inland courses is a product of all the excellent links courses we have. Consequently no one comes to play the inland courses unless they are staying at a nearby hotel.

Having spent the last two years up in Moray and exploring all the courses in the area let me tell you Elgin is every bit as good as Blairgowrie and BoG (and if you rate BoG how can you not rate Granton-on-Spey ?). Duff House Royal is an absolute gem, a text book example from MacKenzie of what can be done with a flat site. Forres is another terrific Braid layout that while lacks the dimensions for championship golf still provides some excellent golf.

Back in my native Lanarkshire, Hamilton is a fantastic Braid parkland course, same with Strathaven, Lanark is a historic inland "links" and the back nine at Wishaw is worth the greenfee alone but then who goes to Lanarkshire to play golf when both Ayrshire and East Lothian are only an hour away ?

Niall

[Mark Chaplin]

Niall I've played Boat of Garten but no Granton on Spey, I walked past the new course at Aviemore last year and it look very pleasant.

[Anders Rytter]

Yeah, my sample is 9 courses in Sweden and 5 in Denmark, so that is probably not statistically relevant. But it's all I have

Which Copenhagen club would you recommend in that regard and (perhaps a different one) for its golfing merits?

Ulrich

Would recommend Rungsted would fit both purposes at least in the summer. (might be biased, i'm a member)

[Lou_Duran]

Lou that's twice you've mentioned the heather.  Don't take this as a personal comment but it's an "excuse" and as I believe you know, in life some people get it done and others find excuses.

Where a culture of fast play exists then people play fast and keep up with the group in front.  This is true in east anglia where gorse lines the courses, parts of Surrey where Rhododendrons swallow your ball or links where the rough can be fearsome in summer.  I would bet that at Muirfield, where the “Hay” is legendary the time taken to play a round of golf in summer, is within 15 mins of that in winter, where they play foursomes to help combat the cold.  The problem is the kind of course we like to play BUDA on, expect us as guests to follow their culture.


I would add that anyone who’s not visited these shores should be advised that this kind of fast play only applies to about 3% of courses.  In all the others we are seeing the “Bowling alone”  story. IN my experience many play golf not as club member, but with 3 mates in a 4BBB format where 4.5hrs is consider a great time. They set the time for the others. The old members complain about the pace of play and do nothing about it.  They have lost any Club culture they once had.


One thing I like about the Scottish Club I’ve joined is that on entering competitions you inform the secretary what ‘hour’ you’d like to play and then the day before he posts the starting times and you find out who you’re playing with.  I wouldn’t  desire this for every round I play, but its a great way to get to know all the members.

Now, Tony, how can I not take this personally!  I can't "get it done" so I whine?     Hey, I like the variety offered by different types of courses and styles of play.  Heather is a change of pace for me, and certainly charming in form if not function.  I was only offering an explanation for the slower play.  But as they say, "when in Rome .....").  Please do not consider my comments in future Buda site selections.  The courses and the club cultures of the two I've attended have been fine.  I played a public course yesterday on a beautiful day, and the five hour round made me wish I was English!

BTW, my only time at TOC, our foursome was aggressively marshalled to finish in four hours.  At Denham where there is no heather, Lynn and I left a super-senior mixed foursomes match accompanied by a large dog go through around the fourth hole when it became clear that we couldn't stay in front of them.  They finished most of a hole ahead.  I would much prefer erring on the fast pace side even if I have to change my behavior.

[Gary Slatter]

I remember playing a lone afternoon round at Esbjerg and, coming in at 8 PM on a glorious summer evening, the clubhouse was locked. No food, no drinks and if I had used the changing room, no clothes. The members had all gone home - no wonder if the clubhouse (a very adequate building to boot) is closed. And that is not the exception, but the rule in Scandinavia.

For a single visitor like me that's fine, I can get something to eat in a restaurant nearby. But as a member that's really bothersome - you're not going to develop a golfing culture without a 19th hole that golfers

a) like to patronize and
b) that is open for business.

Ulrich

Ulrich, what is the name of the course in Copenhagen in `the Queens deep park, where the parking lot is at least .5 k from the clubhouse

I don't recognize your experience but i guess it differs from club to club. When ever you are in the Copenhagen area let me know and i'll show you atleast one good exception to your rule.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I remember playing a lone afternoon round at Esbjerg and, coming in at 8 PM on a glorious summer evening, the clubhouse was locked. No food, no drinks and if I had used the changing room, no clothes. The members had all gone home - no wonder if the clubhouse (a very adequate building to boot) is closed. And that is not the exception, but the rule in Scandinavia.

For a single visitor like me that's fine, I can get something to eat in a restaurant nearby. But as a member that's really bothersome - you're not going to develop a golfing culture without a 19th hole that golfers

a) like to patronize and
b) that is open for business.

Ulrich

Ulrich,

This is the situation at my club as well, and I imagine it's the norm throughout the Sweden.

[Kris Shreiner]

Scotland...in a walkover! 

[BCrosby]

"Spangles" ??

[Anders Rytter]

I remember playing a lone afternoon round at Esbjerg and, coming in at 8 PM on a glorious summer evening, the clubhouse was locked. No food, no drinks and if I had used the changing room, no clothes. The members had all gone home - no wonder if the clubhouse (a very adequate building to boot) is closed. And that is not the exception, but the rule in Scandinavia.

For a single visitor like me that's fine, I can get something to eat in a restaurant nearby. But as a member that's really bothersome - you're not going to develop a golfing culture without a 19th hole that golfers

a) like to patronize and
b) that is open for business.

Ulrich

Ulrich, what is the name of the course in Copenhagen in `the Queens deep park, where the parking lot is at least .5 k from the clubhouse

I don't recognize your experience but i guess it differs from club to club. When ever you are in the Copenhagen area let me know and i'll show you atleast one good exception to your rule.

Hi Gary,
The Course in the Deer park is Called Københanvs Golf Klub (Copenhagen Golf Club) established 1898, one of the older courses in Denmark,  the current course dates back to 1928.

had a few pictures on the computer, not the best, but you get an idea.

[Tony_Muldoon]

"Spangles" ??

Bob's whatever is the matter with you?  If Sean hasn't given you a moniker yet, you just haven't played enough with him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spangles_Muldoon

[don_bartlett]

I will say Scotland with Canada as a dark horse.....Love the fact that so many Canadians play with such a short season, even if many play from the wrong side of the ball.....

Hey, I resemble that comment

[BCrosby]

Spangles -

I have not yet played golf with Sean. My day will come.

But since this is a game two can play, do you have a moniker for Sean that can be disclosed on a family website?

Bob

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I think there is something to be said for 365 day a year golf. that is my only knock on Scotland and England. It does move some of the US up the chart.

[Mark Pearce]

Bob,

I believe some call him The Yank.

Tiger,

You can play golf 365 days a year most years in most of the UK.  You may not want to, but you can.....

[Mark Chaplin]

Tiger why is my Chicago club closed from Nov to March? That's hardly 365 days.

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