[NAF]

Most people don't think Pebble Beach starts until the 4th hole where Stillwater Cove comes into play..For my money, the 3rd is where the course starts.  I got to play the hole last week from the Open tees (which may be the back tees)..Any event, it is 390yds and it defintely makes a change in tactics..For some, they might just say the hole calls for a simple draw and pitch..From 390 yds it definitely is not...I found myself with the choice of a 3 wood or a driver from my caddy..After selecting a 3 wood and not hitting a draw but getting the dreaded straight ball, I found myself in the rough with a hook lie needing to hit a 7 iron fade over the front right bunker to the hole..Needless to say I hit a direct pull into the left bunker.  The green complex is steeply pitched and well protected as well..In essence the hole:

1)Demands strategic shaping on the drive--draw
2)Favours a fade approach with a scoring club
3)Has a good green complex that is well protected
4)Punishes a bad drive with a hanging lie demanding a shot that moves the other way..

Sounds pretty good to me...Any thoughts...?

[Scott_Burroughs]

I like #3 a lot, too.  It might be my favorite inland hole after #16.  3-wood draw over the chasm and a short iron over the right bunker to any pin position on the right side of the green is a good hole.  

I don't think #2's that bad either.  Grip it and rip it off the tee favoring the right side of the fairway, and a risk/reward 2nd shot whether or not you try to clear the creek in two.  If you're in the right green side bunker, good luck getting up and down.

Heck, #1 has a fairly tough green.

[Bob_Huntley]

You are absolutely right about the third hole. What you forgot to mention, was that the green is nearest to OB than any other hole on the course. The bunkering is deep and menacing.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I can't argue how close the O.B. is on the third green, as I don't remember, but I do remember O.B. closely surrounding 50% of the green on #11 (I hit in someone's beautiful back porch), behind #13 green (?), to the right of #14 green, and I suppose right of #15 green.

[THuckaby2]

All I have to add is young Eldrick "Tiger" "I took a triple on this hole" Woods would have to attest to the hole's difficulty.

I'll concur with all the above in any case - great hole.  Ties into the discussion on the Bobby Jones thread also... the strong player is most definitely rewarded "both ways" on this hole, ie shorter distance and better angle in (from left).  Thus if I had my way I'd change the green... make the angle better from the right.  But it's a great hole how it is anyway so this is just food for thought!

TH

[Ran Morrissett]

Ask Tiger how good it is - it was the only hole that got the better of him two years ago.

One cool feature not already mentioned is that the 2nd shot  is the golfer's first real taste of the day's wind and judging it right takes a) a ton of local knowledge and b) the skill to pull it off. And with the OB lurking... you best get it right!

[THuckaby2]

I feel honored that my feeble mind crossed in cyberspace and concurred with that of the GREAT ADMINISTRATOR!

Another cool thing about 3 - it is one hell of a great green... more subtle than you'd think - the break is NOT purely from the right.  Easily 3-jackable.  Yes, I painfully know.

TH

[GUEST]

It's Pebble Beach!  It's great!

[Todd_Eckenrode]

Great point.  The 3rd offers one of the more interesting "bite off as much as you can" type of shots there, which is made tougher with the predominate wind fighting the preferred draw-shot here.  Good point by Ran, as well, offering a short iron (with a good drive) into a stiff wind...for the first time in the round requiring some shotmaking.  

[THuckaby2]

Aw, what the hell do you know, Todd?  You've never designed any hole with any strategy.

HUGE   here.  I just returned from playing Todd's Barona Creek and the only thing keeping me from starting a new thread on it is we've covered it before.  Aficionados of strategy and "firm and fast" need to get to Barona ASAP.  I swear, this has to be the golfclubatlas "dream course".  I am NOT kidding.  

TH

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I am a big fan of this hole. The chasim make the tee shot very dangerous and you can get in real trouble with a blockout going through the fairway. It takes good shotmaking skills or lack of knowledge of the dangers to take a driver and pull the ball around the corner to have a short wedge from the left center of the fairway. The wind as Ran noted is a big factor too, both on the drive and 2nd shot. This is the point on the course where you start wondering what is up and down with the grain on the greens at Pebble too. An inland golfer from the flatlands like me takes a round or two on the best coast to get the ocean grain thing down again. 3 is a tough green for me to read so early in the round.

[Gib_Papazian]

Leprechaun,
Ahhhhh Grasshopper, you have taken yet another step towards total consciousness.

I cannot understand why the golf world is not absolutely astounded by Barona. If that is not Top 50 Modern, well, maybe I don't have enough taste to be rater.

But perhaps that is a subject for another day.


As to #3 at Pebble, I have long maintained that hole is a pretty good example of what we have come to call a "Modern Cape" hole. i.e. The popular definition, not the correct one.

Think about it, similar to the  5th at Mid Ocean, the closer you can sneak your ball to the culvert on the right,  the  easier the angle coming home. Pulling it just a hair and finding the ditch equals absolute death.

Pushing it up onto the hillside leaves an impossible shot. The right front bunker is like a magnet and it is easy to catch a flyer and O.B. you go!

Plus, that damned bunker on the left of the green is a bit deeper than it looks.  

[THuckaby2]

My baby steps are continuing, sensei.  BTW, my buddy and I got the first time off and toured it in 2.5 hours.  That course, at that speed, with no one anywhere near us... that was life.

Great thoughts re Pebble3!  Concur most definitely.

TH

[ChipOat]

Tom Huckaby:

You've been reading my posts - God love you!

You may recall I mentioned #3 on the Bobby Jones thread as a hole that sets up better for the long hitter and that I'd like the green angled as you (and I both) like except that "the shot to the green from the right rough is so wonderfully difficult I'm tempted to let it slide".

I guess we give one to Shivas on this hole??

CO

[THuckaby2]

Glad to oblige, Chip!

But well said, and we must indeed give one to shivas (and Rich) on this hole.  But heck yeah, the shot from the right is such a good one, we'll live!

Cheers.

TH

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Gib, It is interesting for you to describe it that way. It is much like a cape hole. The easy shot is from the left to left center of the fairway about 85 to 125 out. It takes a very courageous drive from the back to get there. All the shots from the right half of the fairway are good to very tough, yet none take the shotmaking skill or courage to try them the left side does. Yet if you fail it is not water but maybe a lost ball or in a deep ditch or back in the chasim.

[ChipOat]

Tom Huckaby:

What if the green were more angled towards the left-center but was made a little skinnier and a little longer and the right side bunker was made a little deeper and a little bigger and the left bunker was made a LOT deeper or the whole ground level left of the green was lowered a foot, or so??    Maybe you make the stance from the "bail out" right side a little more above your feet, as well.  You know, I don't think we'd have to let anything slide.  And we wouldn't have to give one to Shivas or Rich G., either!

What do you think?

CO

[THuckaby2]

CO - I believe in that case, we'd certainly not be giving one to the heathens.  Well said, kind sir.

 

TH

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom Huckaby,

Despite our debates on the merits of PB overall, I share the view that #3 is a cool hole for at least two reasons that other have mentioned:

tee placement requirements

and

initial exposure to the wind on the approach.

[A Clay Man]

I was once shown a yardage book from 92' and you'd be shocked to learn how short it is to carry the pot bunker that is on the rightside of the tree stand. Anyone care to guess the yardage From the whites?
Bob Huntley is correct that the O.B. is extremely close beyond the green. And what makes it come into play is the downslope of the fairway which takes loft off of your iron in.

I found this a great hole for the player to gain confidence in my abilitity to "know his game" and would only recommend a driver if they could answer the question "Can you hit it high?" then its a straight shot at the green, otherwise its a numbers game from 160- 200 yds is all thats necc. off the tee and then the prudent advice was to err on the shortside of the green with the o.b. lurking long.
The green is relatively flat with slopes from bothsides coming to form a subtle funnel, but definetly has a right to left bias with the ocean and point lobos to the left.

[Rich_Goodale]

One of the best green complexes at PB.  If the trees to the left could be made to disappear, this hole (and the 16th) would be absolutely awesome.  As it is, the goofiness of the tee shot diminishes it, IMHO.

[Paul Richards]

The first five at Pebble are just a prelude to the ocean holes,
IMHO.  Except that the new fifth is SO much better than
the old.

Now to REALLY make Pebble special, just switch the first
five at Spyglass Hill with the Pebble first five, and you have
an absolutely AMAZING track!

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I am glad to see the 16th chatted up here too. It has always been my favorite of the nonocean holes. I love the tee shot and the second is one I look forward to the entire round. Not as much as the 2nd shot at 8 though lol

[Scott_Burroughs]

As I've said in the past, and others have concurred, the old #5 was a good hole.  An uphill par 3 with a blind green.  Me likey.

[Chip Royce]

I am so glad to hear compliments for a non-ocean hole at Pebble!

In my 2 rounds at the course, I really loved the 3rd - the first real test and a difficult hole to play, esp. when the wind barrels in from the ocean.

Personally, and I know this would draw ire from many in the california contingent, I do not hold Pebble in total awe - perhaps because of #1 and #2, in addition to many holes on the back 9. Its not an ocean vs. inland thing... more than the holes are much more pedestrian and do not have the variety found from #3 to #10.

Another favorite is the short #4. Doesn't matter how far you bomb it... need to put the ball in a position where you feel comfortable in putting the ball on the green and out of the many hazards surrounding the firm green.

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