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Frank M

  • Karma: +0/-0
Blind = Quirk? New
« on: May 28, 2011, 01:03:22 AM »
I've been reading many posts lately that talk about quirk and everyone has a different perspective on what quirk entails.

The one thing that I personally don't agree with is the idea that blind shots make a course/hole "quirky." Can something be quirky if it is inherently evident in the very fabric of whatever we talk of having quirk? Why has North America become so opposed to blind shots in golf and do you think blind shots = quirk?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2024, 05:56:16 PM by Frank M »

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind = Quirk?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2011, 03:27:30 AM »
Well, if nothing found at TOC counts as quirk, there is little quirk to be found anywhere.  The place not only has blind shots, but has greens the size of American football fields, shared between two holes, you play over the edge of a hotel, chip off a blacktop that's in play with no drop, end up in bunkers - even in the fairway - where the only play is to go out sideways or backwards, etc.

To be honest, there are many places in Scotland and Ireland that have many more blind shots - shots that are also far more blind.  Prestwick, for instance, though there are courses with even more blind shots than it offers.

I think people tend to equate quirk with "something that deviates from the norm as I understand it".  Thus American golfers tend to regard blind shots as quirk because they are much less frequent here, and they hear their fellow less enlightened golfers grouse about any such shot at any opportunity.  I doubt our members from the UK would regard blindness as quirk, but perhaps might regard a course that demanded an aerial approach on all 18 holes as quirky (but see below :))  Most would regard double greens as quirk, because even though TOC is the first and most famous course in the world, that is something that few other courses have copied.

Keep in mind that when we talk about quirk, we talk about quirk as a positive attribute, or at least not a negative attribute.  Quirk can make a course better, or not, but won't make it worse.  If a course has attributes that deviate from the norm that make it worse then its not quirk, its crappy architecture ;)
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Frank M

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind = Quirk? New
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2011, 03:58:01 AM »
I do not necessarily believe there are no quirky aspects at TOC. I do not feel, however, that blind shots are one of them.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2024, 05:56:43 PM by Frank M »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind = Quirk?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2011, 05:11:19 AM »
Frank

Opinions and attitudes change over time.  Nothing is as was 120 years ago.  Archies now deem it dangerous to build a blind hole (or shared fairways) without much thought as to what constitutes danger.  Personally, I think archies use danger as an excuse not to have to take risks with the design because they know there is a decent chance those risks will get panned by the golfing public.  Its a nasty circle that few seem able or willing to break out of.  To be fair to modern archies, there is a long lineage of thought against blind shots going back to Colt and Dr Mac and they aren't bad chaps to emulate.  I find it curious as to why Dr Mac held TOC up as a model design, but seemed to dislike blind shots. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind = Quirk?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2011, 07:09:10 AM »
Sean,

Is it maybe because in Mackenzies day, they played from forward tees which gave a better view of the hole ?

Niall

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind = Quirk?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2011, 08:12:03 AM »
Niall

I don't know.  The TOC champ tees in 1927 were between 6500 & 6600 yards.  I assume these tees are about the medal tees of today (they may be another 100 or 200 yards) and that the daily tees are probably not much different today as 85 years ago.  I reckon it would take someone looking at the specific holes in question. 

I do think Dr Mac was pragmatic (both in terms of money and a good walk) with his routings and would accept (or inheret) a blind shot here and there if it led to a greater good.   

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind = Quirk?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2011, 10:52:13 AM »
Many of the holes onTOC are blind only because the tee-shot is obscured by gorse.

I find it much more likely that the gorse has grown / been planted creating more blind shots than previously. This is certainly the case on other courses.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Blind = Quirk?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2011, 12:05:18 PM »
Ally,

Good point.

Sean

I think it also depends on your definition of blind. Does it mean completely blind where you can neither see the pin or the green or do holes where the pin or part of the green is hidden ? My definition tends towards the former. If I can see part of the green and part fo the flag and have an inkling which way the green goes ie. judging by the surrounds then I don't really think of it as blind.

Niall

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Blind = Quirk?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2011, 01:18:41 PM »

Blind Holes require a leap of faith, of self-belief in ones skill and confidence. Perhaps a good measure of a Devil may care attitude which certainly alludes many both in the past and present.

Or even the ability to put oneself in the hands of the designer for the great good of the game.

Yet, am I not describing the core heart, the spirit that is the Royal & Ancient Game of Golf or have we all forgotten our roots already for the easy alien game played by millions today.

Blind Holes like deep bunkers are hazards there to challenge the golfer which in part makes the game.

The only certainty in Golf is that one day you will die and a large percentage of individuals will always seek the easy way.

Melvyn