There must be a reason- so I'll just shut up

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,

If you look at the tees on 18 using Google Earth they have upper tees on the side of the hill and lower tees on the bottom. I'm guessing they use the upper tees with the north summer wind and the lower tees with the south winter wind.

9 is a unique/different case where you have two greens with two sets of corresponding tees.

Given the consistent brownish coloring of the images, I have a very hard time making out things on that course. That is one reason I didn't do more measuring and left it to Bryan. I was not aware of the two sets of tees. I might have to look at them in person if I get down there.

[Peter Pallotta]

Yes, Tim - thanks for those details.  Bryan - that's the thing, all rancor aside: that course could have been shaped differently, i.e. it was shaped before it was capped. So i think the course came out pretty much exactly as the architect wanted it - for better or worse. Kalen and Garland - thanks, I'm enjoying the exchange re other courses.
Peter

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,

If you look at the tees on 18 using Google Earth they have upper tees on the side of the hill and lower tees on the bottom. I'm guessing they use the upper tees with the north summer wind and the lower tees with the south winter wind.

9 is a unique/different case where you have two greens with two sets of corresponding tees.

Given the consistent brownish coloring of the images, I have a very hard time making out things on that course. That is one reason I didn't do more measuring and left it to Bryan. I was not aware of the two sets of tees. I might have to look at them in person if I get down there.

Actually,

I made those measurements, but its no biggie who gets the credit.    

I was surprised at how long some of those transitions actually are....other than 11 green to 12 tee, the others didn't seem that long when I played it.

P.S.  Pete I didn't realize you were an East Coast guy....I always thought you were here somewhere in the PNW! 

[Bryan Izatt]

Kalen,

I'm sure Garland knows you did the measurements for Pac Dunes.  Thanks for saving me the trouble.

Garland,

Thanks for so gracefully accepting that my point about Pac Dunes was correct.  And, if you do get there, I do hope you enjoy the climb up to the back tee on 18.  The views are quite spectacular.  Of course, if you play the hole from back there in the winter you might never finish the hole.  Gorse and water hazards have a lot in common.  And, I know you are a great fan of water hazards. 

Peter,

Indeed, the course no doubt turned out the way the architect wanted it to.  I'd be interested in how you would have shaped the top and sides of the mountain of garbage differently and routed the course differently.  Given the clubhouse location and the 100 foot rise from the flat surrounding land form, how would you have done it differently.  Don't forget to include Tim's input. 

[Garland Bayley]

...Gorse and water hazards have a lot in common. ...

That's why I'm not exactly thrilled about Pac Dunes, but ecstatic over Old MacDonald.

Gotta admit you are right about the walks at Pac Dunes, but what a place to take a hike! I actually did not appreciate the opportunity to walk back into the path of play leaving 13.

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,

If there was a ever a hole where a "walk back" can be completely forgiven, it would be 13 at PD.  That hole is nothing short of superb and it would have been a shame to leave it out of the routing because there wasn't an easy way to get to the next tee.

As for wiki...

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2006/11/8296.ars

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,

If there was a ever a hole where a "walk back" can be completely forgiven, it would be 13 at PD.  That hole is nothing short of superb and it would have been a shame to leave it out of the routing because there wasn't an easy way to get to the next tee.
...

I couldn't help but thinking there must be a way around the back of the dune to a tee for the next hole. I know Tom likes to find holes, but since if I recall correctly they did a lot of work to create 14, couldn't he have made it a better walk. At least make it as good a walk as Chambers Bay.

[Kalen Braley]

Garland,

If there was a ever a hole where a "walk back" can be completely forgiven, it would be 13 at PD.  That hole is nothing short of superb and it would have been a shame to leave it out of the routing because there wasn't an easy way to get to the next tee.
...

I couldn't help but thinking there must be a way around the back of the dune to a tee for the next hole. I know Tom likes to find holes, but since if I recall correctly they did a lot of work to create 14, couldn't he have made it a better walk. At least make it as good a walk as Chambers Bay.

As memory recalls,

There was a fairly significant drop off/steep grade behind the 13th green that made walking around that sand dune impractical.  But I could be mistaken.  And based on the sheer size/audacity of that dune it would have been a shame to play Moses and split it in two to get to the next tee via the shortest path.