[Tiger_Bernhardt]

For over a decade now the USGA has pushed more closely shaved or mowed areas by the greens. The biggest problem I see on this is so few courses have the irrigation systems to water these areas properly. They tend to be too wet to at best very inconsistent. I do like the variety of shots this opens up when the course and staff can keep the areas firm. However it is one of the most difficult shots in golf to chip off a wet tite lie. You add that on many courses one is going against the grain which takes  away the putting option. I think this hurts short game development as well as damaging the pleasure of this part of the game.

[Mac Plumart]

You bring up a great point regarding architectural intent and maintenance practices. 

[Bill_McBride]

John, is it possible the irrigation system was designed for rough that needed more water?  Perhaps just a tweak of volumes would help.

[Jim_Kennedy]

There are sprinkler heads whose arcs can be changed from full to partial with a screwdriver. If a club can take on the added expense of maintaining closely shaved areas they could probably afford to swap out their existing heads for those w/adjustable arcs, and the ones they replace can become spares to be used at other locations on the course.

  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tiger,

How, exactly, has the USGA pushed for this ?

The individual clubs typically control their destiny.

Do you think it's a fad promoted by US Open play ?   Pinehurst # 2 ?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Pat, all of my clubs give great respect to the USGA advisor who visits the Super several times each year. He gives ideas on how to address problems he might have with the knowledge of seeing every club in that part of the country on a regular basis. He also promotes playing area trends in the game. You are correct about it being the club's call. However all of the supers at my clubs as well as the greens com listen to the USGA guy.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Jim I am told it is much harder than that. Bill yes but age and design do vary a good bit.

[Tom_Doak]

Tiger:

The irrigation issues would not be too expensive to fix if the short grass really adds design interest to the course.

However, it's not just about the irrigation.  Short grass around the greens generally only plays the way you'd like it to in certain climates, on certain soils, and with certain types of grasses.  Lately, a lot of chipping areas have been designed into courses where those other factors are not supporting the choice.  I love short grass around the greens, but I agree with you it has become a bit of a design fad.

[Carl Rogers]

Let's look at this week's  Tour Event in New Orleans .... bermuda chipping & run-off areas seem to sometimes grab, stop and deflect the ball in some times unpredictable ways.  Where I play in Eastern VA, it does the same.  Most usually, the putter is not the best choice. There are lots of tricky semi-pitches and semi-chip shots. I think it adds compexity to the mix.  It seems to frustrate the better player.  I like it.

[Adam Clayman]

No, it's not he worst idea ever promoted. Funny how when the going gets tough, the tough cry "unfair".

This unpredictability should be relished and not cryt doon.

If too wet is a problem, I don't see how it's the USGA's fault. Maybe Augustas?

[Bill_McBride]

Tiger:

The irrigation issues would not be too expensive to fix if the short grass really adds design interest to the course.

However, it's not just about the irrigation.  Short grass around the greens generally only plays the way you'd like it to in certain climates, on certain soils, and with certain types of grasses.  Lately, a lot of chipping areas have been designed into courses where those other factors are not supporting the choice.  I love short grass around the greens, but I agree with you it has become a bit of a design fad.

Tom, I've been blown away my last couple of visits by all the short grass at the Valley Club. The area around 15 green, 16 tee, and 18 green, and 1st green, 2 tee and 14 green really come to mind. Can you think of another course with that much short grass?  Do you think it's been overdone?

[Tom_Doak]

Bill:

I don't think the short grass has been overdone at The Valley Club, considering that we were the ones who painted the lines.  Most of those lines are based on a 1927 map of the course ... though there were some areas that were even larger.  [For example, everything between #2 and #13 was originally mowed as one giant fairway, with no trees.  Hard to make that work today when longer tee shots are dueling with each other.]  And, of course, back in the 1920's they were gang-mowing and the standard for fairways was not quite the same as today's!

Actually, though, I was just out there last month to shrink it down a bit.  They are going to replace the ryegrass with bermuda over the next couple of years, and the bermuda won't work there in the shady areas near the oaks, so I tried to reconfigure the fairways a bit to give the superintendent a fighting chance of keeping the fairways healthy.

[Don_Mahaffey]

I don't think wet chipping areas are usually a result of bad irrigation, and like Tom wrote, if irrigation is the culprit it is not hard to fix.
The problem I do see often is over irrigation combined with poor drainage. If the area collect balls then it willl collect water as well and you need to be able to move the water. This is usually addressed during construction, but when someone gets the bright idea to just start mowing areas tight without consideration to the irrigation/drainage in place then you may have problems, especially on heavier soils.

I'm a huge fan of close cut areas around greens especially if they blend into the fwy because they can then be cut with the fwy unit. With proper design/drainage, there is no reason at all that these areas can't play just fine. Its when these areas get added willy nilly that the problems start to happen and the finger gets pointed at the super. Of course if he's listened too in the first place the idea can get nixed or at least the area properly prepared prior to just lowering the mowers. 

[Ken Moum]

I have yet to see a course that overdid short grass around the greens.

What I see out here in the Great Plains is a proliferation of ankle-deep rough around all the greens and bunkers.  The problem then becomes one of keeping all that grass alive. 

The most common result is that it becomes a mixture of Poa annua and fescue, then when summer arrives the Poa mostly dies and you have acres of crap that defies any kind of actual golf shot. (The upside is that it's forced me to learn some new ways to advance the ball, such as the bounce/blast out of a 3-inch diameter dead spot in 4" deep fescue)

I'd LOVE to see some more short grass around the greens. wet and soggy or not.

K

[RJ_Daley]

What Don says about if it collects balls in the low mowed chipping area... it will collect water, is obviously quite true. 

But Tiger, does anyone execute nice shots from these low mowed chipping-putting-collection areas you speak of when they are wet?  If so, then is it due to dumb luck or do they have a deft touch or technique?  If some players can do well while many or most can not, I'd say it is more of a learning curve for those not doing so well on this condition.  Can a precisely clipped chip get close or a bumped FW metal or hybrid iron? 

If no one can execute, then I'd go along with the notion it is unwarranted, faddish and ill advised.  But, if it adds a new skill set required to deal with it, and that can be learned, then it sounds OK to me.

[Sean_A]

I think Tiger is right in that when the putter is not an option due the maintanance or type of grass even if short then the concept doesn't work as well.  However, having a mix of length of grasses around greens can't be a bad thing in these instances.  If the putter is not an option I don't see a problem with fairway all the way to 6 inch rough around greens.  Its just well to remember that the long rough can cut off some interesting recovery shots so that shouldn't be used too often.  I have seen it best used on flatish greens where missing pin high is a now a difficult recovery as trying to bounce a chip through the rough is hard to predict.  Of course, long rough can also be used to hold balls up on purpose and on courses with a lot of severe terrain this can be most welcome now and again.  Of course, I think the best sort of rough is patchy and fairly thin regardless if its off the fairway or green.  I really like the pot luck aspect of this sort of rough. 

Ciao

[Bill_McBride]

Bill:

I don't think the short grass has been overdone at The Valley Club, considering that we were the ones who painted the lines.  Most of those lines are based on a 1927 map of the course ... though there were some areas that were even larger.  [For example, everything between #2 and #13 was originally mowed as one giant fairway, with no trees.  Hard to make that work today when longer tee shots are dueling with each other.]  And, of course, back in the 1920's they were gang-mowing and the standard for fairways was not quite the same as today's!

Actually, though, I was just out there last month to shrink it down a bit.  They are going to replace the ryegrass with bermuda over the next couple of years, and the bermuda won't work there in the shady areas near the oaks, so I tried to reconfigure the fairways a bit to give the superintendent a fighting chance of keeping the fairways healthy.

I agree it's not overdone, also like the area left of 5 over to the 6th tee. 

Where is the Bermuda going? 

[Tom_Doak]

They are strongly considering changing the fairways to Santa Ana bermudagrass.

[Lyne Morrison]

Tom,

Is the proposed change over due to restrictions with water use or are other issue involved?

Thanks, Lyne

[Adam Clayman]

Are there newer strains of Bermuda that allow for low mowing? Allowing for some bounce and roll?

[Tom_Doak]

Adam:  Santa Ana is notorious in Australia for being lightning-fast when it's dormant.  Indeed, that is an issue for The Valley Club, which isn't a long course to start wth.

Lyne:  The Valley Club has not run into irrigation restrictions so far, but the club is in California and they are trying to look ahead, not only from the water standpoint but regarding chemical use as well.  Pasatiempo was the recipient of major water restrictions two years ago and have had to revamp their whole irrigation protocol as a result.

[Lyne Morrison]

Thanks Tom.

You mention a turnaround of a couple of years.  Are you able to comment on the proposed method for changing over – sod / seed?  Appreciate your feedback.

Cheers.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Carl and Bill, I like hard and challenging as much as anyone. However, Tom and Don are probably closer to the real issue being drainage, type of soil etc. I lumped that under proper irrigation system for the situation. The bottom line is these area play frightfully close to ground under repair more often than we want to discuss on here at many many courses. If the grain issues take the ground play away then it is just bad golf in my eyes. I can play the shot. I spoke to an old pro and our Lafayette green chair. He says we tend to go with the flow because the poor players can get on the green and make bogie or double bogie. I still say a 75% chilly dip is more likely by a 15 to 25 handicap than a single digit golfer. I like in fact love diveristy and options in the short game. I was raised on heavy rough and fringe burmuda. You either learn to get up and down from anywhere out of that or lose. However the shot options are much fewer but very difficult none the less. I just think the usga should look at the the reality of the course and maintenance options before pushing design features.

[Lou_Duran]

Tiger:

The irrigation issues would not be too expensive to fix if the short grass really adds design interest to the course.

However, it's not just about the irrigation.  Short grass around the greens generally only plays the way you'd like it to in certain climates, on certain soils, and with certain types of grasses.  Lately, a lot of chipping areas have been designed into courses where those other factors are not supporting the choice.  I love short grass around the greens, but I agree with you it has become a bit of a design fad.

TD,

As I recall, toward the end of construction at Texas Tech, I saw Jim Urbina instruct one of your shapers to spread the sand/green mix some 20-30+ yards out to make the approaches handle the run-up shot similarly to the green surface.  I suspect that cotton soil requires considerable preparation for chipping areas to work as designed.  But unless these areas are continually aerated and sanded, wouldn't they tend to revert to the native soil and be prone to wetness from normal green drainange?

IMO, there are few things worse than closely mown areas around a green that are too wet and sloped where balls accumulate in divot-littered collection basins.  I would prefer rough that kept the ball closer to the green and allowed a flop shot.

[Tim Nugent]

To sum up.  Short mowed areas add to the complection of the green complex. However, these areas must be well thought out.  The low areas should be broad and wide.  The soil should be a sandy-loam or sand to facilitate drainage and limit compaction.  Irrigation should be designed with the various soils and grasses in mind.  It is relatively easy to modify existing systems without adding pipe, you just need more heads.  Contours should be made with mowing equipment in mind. Different grasses and differing heights will yield different playing options.  Best to hire an experienced architect.

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