[Geoffrey_Walsh]

I have read a number of places that Bandon, OR was one of the last prime pieces of real estate left for a magnificent golf course in the continental United States.  I certainly agree that the oceanside links is spectacular but there must be other parcels that have yet to be discovered/considered.  I f another great course, Sand Hills, showed us anything it is that we never know where the next golfing Mecca will be located.

My questions is, where should the next golfing visionary build his/her dream course?

My top choice...

1.  Gardiner's Island, NY (just off the tip of Long Island)
There aren't many privately owned islands in the country (it is the largest), much less ones that have been untouched for almost 300 years.  This island has been owned by the Gardiner family for generations and probably has the same types of features that make Shinnecock and NGLA such great courses.  How did it stay in their family for so long?  They were smart enough to send sons to fight for both sides of the Revolutionary War, so that no matter who won, they would keep the island.  No traffic is allowed on the island but rumor has it that the island might be considered for residential development in the not to distant future.

[SPDB]

Geoffrey

Is Robert D.L. Gardiner still alive, because it will be, quite literally, over his dead body that this course will be built. I mean that figuratively as well. His niece had proprietorship of the island, and she is fabulously rich so she would have no financial incentive in developing the land. What is the status of it.
There already is a Gardiners Bay club, so what will it be called?

I think there is still good land, as evidenced by Bandon, Whistling Straits, etc. I would look for something in Northern Maine, although i know nothing of the soil consistency, or environmental prot. standards, the coastline Maine is blessed with is spectacular - it has the longest coastline of any of the lower 48.

[Brad Miller]

Is there a market (golfing public/national private $15-25,000) 500-1000 members for another prairie course, which would be much easier to reach than Sand Hills. Wind, sandy soil and dunes, simple, elegant and fun, many of the features the founder of this site would love?

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Sean,

It is my understanding that Mr. Gardiner is still alive but his neice is considering developing part of the island.  However, my post was intended to generate a wishlist of possible locations rather than ones that might be immediately possible.

In addition, I would definitely agree with on Maine.  Have you played Sugarloaf or Samoset?  I would love to take a trip up there (particularly for Sugarloaf) but I am not sure it is worth the long journey... any thoughts?

[RJ_Daley]

It will never be allowed by the US government, but a dream site for at least one course would be somewhere along the great Cape Hatteras strand...

There are only 10000+ hole if not golf course sites in the Sand Hills that are great looking ground.

PS: Brad Miller, find me 20-25 investors of 100K each, or any multiple less than 25 that will yield 2-2.5 million and I will virtually guarantee you a fantastic sand hill golf course within 3-5 minutes of I-80, 1 minute from public access to a fine recreational lake, and 3-5 minutes of several hundred first class motel restaurant and convention facilities!  Besides free golf for the investor each day, I'll throw in a 2-3 nice homesites for the investors to boot. (on periphery of the golf course not encroaching or compromising the design or views)  Find them and I will buy the land tomorrow and get started!  

[JohnV]

Since I spent the last couple of years driving all across the US, I can say that there look to be hundreds of good to great places that golf courses could be built.  It probably only takes money, water and proper environmental solutions.

The first piece I can think of is about 5 miles south east of Praire Dunes there was a piece of property that was for sale and looked like it might be just as good land as where the Praire Dunes is.  

The second was an area just west I-5 about 1/2 way between Redding and Red Bluff.  There was a huge amount of acreage for sale there (3000 acres as I recall.)  Given that I saw equally as interesting a piece of land off I-505 much nearer the Bay Area for $1500 an acre, I doubt that this could be over about $1K per acre.  Imagine for $3M you could get enough land to build 10 or 15 courses.  Nice rolling hills, not too many trees.  Build a resort 1/2 way between the Bay Area and Bandon right on I-5.  Paging Mike Keiser....

[Matt_Ward]

A real sleeper to watch is New Mexico -- the land of enchantment.

You get reasonable fees and the quality of golf is beginning to register in terms of its offerings and not just because of the adjacent topography.

I recommend enthusiastically any trip to Paa Ko Ridge, just north of Albuquerque -- a superb Ken Dye course that asks for all the shots in a day.

I've also been told by friends that the Twin Warriors Golf Club is also a wondeful course designed by Gary Panks.

There are also plenty of courses being built in different sections and the range goes from Pinon Hills in the northwest in Farmington (another well done K Dye design) and a number of others near Las Cruces.

The weather is usually top flight for most of the year with the exception of the higher altitude areas. The key is whether players are made aware of just what is there. Usually most people only think of Arizona is an alternative to play in the area.

New Mexico has possibilities -- how far and fast depends upon promotion, more quality courses opening and the continuation of fees that can entice the masses. We shall see ...

[APBernstein]

I know this might be regionally biased, but there is beautiful land in eastern West Virginia (the eastern panhandle) just off I-81.  I got a great glimpse of the land during a massive detour on I-70/68.

Also, this already qualifies as a mecca, but there is plenty of very usable, very attractive sand hill property around Pinehurst.  I toured a site just 5 minutes from town center that was for sale.  Very intriguing.

[Stan Dodd]

JohnV,
Just off 505 in Dunnigan Hills there is a driving range (well done) with a scheme for a course $15,000 and no fees for life.  A great site rolling hills with Yolo class 1 soil sandy base.  Not far from the acreage you describe.  About 15 miles or so from my house.  I too have driven that road and visioned green sites and fairways.  A possibility.

[Shootario]

CUBA
COSTA RICA

USA
San Juan Islands, WA.
Irish Hills, MI.
Alva, FL.
Nakomis, FL.

[BillV]

Cuber (JFK) will be the next "it" spot when available.  I have been drooling over that prospect from my first flyover in 1970.  What an untapped opportunity. Count me in there.

As for places such as New Mexico, Colorado, Montana, any high altitude place....if you think there are obsolescence problems now, try altitude.  We'll need 9000 yards there to keep just our own Matt in line!

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Thought I'd bring this thread back up to the top...

Is there a market (golfing public/national private $15-25,000) 500-1000 members for another prairie course, which would be much easier to reach than Sand Hills. Wind, sandy soil and dunes, simple, elegant and fun, many of the features the founder of this site would love?

I'd say the answer to Brad's question is a definite yes.  Of those mentioned, New Mexico and Maine have emerged as the best candidates over the past three years.

The Cuba suggestion is interesting, especially as the political hurdles continue to erode.  Any thoughts on this?

New locations that should be considered (both domestic and international)?

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Interesting to note that Gardiner's Island may be back in play as well.  Haven't heard any updates but I believe the beneficiaries who will inherit the island are considering limited devlopment on the island to cover the expenses of maintaining it.

[Michael Moore]

I would look for something in Northern Maine, although i know nothing of the soil consistency, or environmental prot. standards, the coastline Maine is blessed with is spectacular - it has the longest coastline of any of the lower 48.

I am required by GCA.com fiat to respond to all Maine references.

In a recent issue of GolfStyles Boston, Deane Beaman, who hangs out in Kennebunkport, mentioned that he thinks that building a world class golf resort somewhere up the coast of Maine is a good idea and that he discussed it with our Governer.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Looks like Gardiner's Island is off the block for at least 20 years...

http://archive.easthamptonstar.com/ehquery/20040916/news1.htm

[Tom Jefferson]

John V.....

I have probably driven I-5 between Mt. Shasta and Chico 500 times in the last 25 years, and have drooled over the piece of property you mention each time!!  What a perfect landform for golf.

I think that property has been proposed, some 10-12 years ago, as the location of a new city, sorta like a Nashville Theme Park concept, a western music lover retirement village, with 4 golf courses!  Dunno what has happened to the proposal.

That entire stretch from Red Bluff north has some beautiful land.

Of course, the town of Mt. Shasta is exactly 1/2 the way from Bandon to the bay area, and the beautiful little resort there awaits the golfing traveler.  Par 70, 6000 yards, sporty, designed by Jim Summers and Sandy Tatum in 1992.

Tom

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

There was 4 miles of beautiful pure white sand dunes on Santa Rosa Island between Pensacola Beach and Navarre Beach. The course, which was in planning, would have been 50 yards from the Ocean and on the sound. It got scrapped for a local attorney to build 6 towers of condominiums a few years ago.

[SL_Solow]

Mike Keiser made a statement at a recent meeting in Chicago that there exist numerous sites similar to Bandon along the Oregon coast.  Makes one wonder.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Cuba has to have huge potential.  Born in 1925, Castro will not be with us much longer.  His brother, also well-aged, is an unlikely replacement.  I bet that Cuba, lured by the enormous tourist revenue potential, will open their doors to builders when Fidel is gone.  20 years from now hotels and golf courses will be common around Havana and beyond.  TPC at Guantanamo Bay??  .

Another place I've suggested on earlier posts that may be attractive is Kamchatka.  Can you imagine a fly-in fishing/golfing lodge club in Russia?  The deep pockets would love the exclusivity.  I know Doak disagrees with me but what else is new!

JC

[Jason Hines]

Jonathan,

What part of Cuba?  I think the desert south and east coasts would be more unique.  The more tropical regions have been covered with Florida and the rest of the Caribbean.   I would agree that it will take 20 years after Castro dies before the place calms down.

Jason

[JWL]

Not sure if "golf mecca" will be attibuted to this area, but for several reasons, I believe that the hill country of east Texas will take much of the golf lifestyle living away from what has previously been in Phoenix, Florida, and California.   The reasons why are numerous,  overbuilt, hurricanes, taxes.
Just a hunch.

[Tom_Doak]

I think it will be in the Caribbean and in Mexico and maybe even South America.

The Caribbean and Mexico have been held back for years by the availability of fresh water supplies.  Now, with Paspalum and de-sal technology, there are thousands of miles of coastline which can be exploited.

The advantage that they have is that they are year-round destinations and there are a lot of people with a lot of money already going there.

Cuba will fit the same formula when the political barriers recede.

[cary lichtenstein]

Tom:

While the Carribean has the weather, the jagged coast lines, and topography, I think the path of the hurricances will keep the bankers from loaning the necessary money to build the resorts.

Cary

[Craig Sweet]

Tom Doak...not Deer Lodge, Montana?

I see Les Furber(?) built a course on Cuba.

[David Sneddon]

Tom Doak...not Deer Lodge, Montana?
I see Les Furber(?) built a course on Cuba.

Furber built the course at Varadero, alongside the old DuPont mansion.  It's a decent resort course, couple of gimmicky holes, but pleasant to play in January rather than shovelling snow. There is a great par 3, the 8th, plays alongside the ocean cliff with the wind always a factor.  Reminiscent in design of #2 at Dornoch, sans gorse.

Currently there are plans in place for another 6 courses in Cuba, financed and built through joint ventures with Canadian and European resort and hotel interests.  When they will actually get round to building them, who knows.

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