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Mark McKeever

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 4 11th now up for discussion
« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2011, 02:18:04 PM »
Two very stout par 4's with a nifty little par 3 in the middle.  That was a very enjoyable stretch of holes.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

D_Malley

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 4 11th now up for discussion
« Reply #76 on: February 21, 2011, 03:08:24 PM »

Great photos Joe!, but one thing you can not see is the great internal contours in all of those greens.

on both 10 and 11 there are two very unique features in the greens.
10 has a large hump right in the middle and 11 has a cool ridge seperating right and left sides.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 4 11th now up for discussion
« Reply #77 on: February 21, 2011, 03:27:54 PM »

Great photos Joe!, but one thing you can not see is the great internal contours in all of those greens.

on both 10 and 11 there are two very unique features in the greens.
10 has a large hump right in the middle and 11 has a cool ridge seperating right and left sides.

But the hole diagrams give a little flavor of these wonderful greens.!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Powell Arms

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 4 11th now up for discussion
« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2011, 04:05:29 PM »
Joe - Here are some photos from Gib.

The ridge which runs through holes 18, 1, 2 & 11 it is the remnant of an old road which ran from Valley Green Road to the quarry (and terminated there I believe).  Part of the lime kilns from the quarry remain alongside Militia Hill #3 green.


Running from the bottom across #1, #2 then #11.  Aerial from 1938


Aerial ca. 1938
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 08:56:24 PM by Powell Arms »
PowellArms@gmail.com
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Mark McKeever

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 4 11th now up for discussion
« Reply #79 on: February 22, 2011, 10:02:41 AM »
Just looking at the old aerial picture above, there is an obvious difference in bunker style that varies from hole to hole.  Holes 4 and 7 have a much different bunkering look than some of the others.  Do we know why?

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Joe Bausch

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 4 11th now up for discussion
« Reply #80 on: February 22, 2011, 11:17:57 AM »
On to the last par 5 at Cricket, #12.  The dotted line in the diagram below represents the edge of the 'cliff' for the old quarry.



From the white tees you can pretty much take your tee shot over the edge of the fence as the drive landing area is fairly wide.  I wonder if the club plans to clean out that junk vegetation at the edge.  Guys?



The view from near the forward tee:



I think your better players are going to consider this a birdie hole and reachable in two with a good tee ball:



View for an approach shot:



View from over the green:

@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

D_Malley

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #81 on: February 22, 2011, 12:26:58 PM »
i did not notice those green diagrams, thx joe

could the bunker style difference be Tilly vs. Flynn design?

Gib Carpenter

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2011, 04:02:33 PM »
Joe, before the 2009-10 winter tree work the entire rim of the quarry was choked not only with vegetation but 50 or more weed-trees which had grown in over the years. The trees & scrub were removed and last Spring the rim was smooth ala the 1938 aerial that Powell posted. The fact that by the fall when you guys visited the vegetation had re-grown to such an extent, I believe proves the point that constant vigilance is necessary to keep such scrub and nuisance trees from encroaching on the course. Another way of looking at it is that the vast majority of the trees removed from the railroad berm were low-quality weed or "donor" trees rather than hardwoods planted with a purpose. The product of neglect and left to grow in over decades, folks become used to such vegetation on the course and removal can become a sore topic.

A note on the quarry rim as pertains to the 12th hole: The original Tilly back tee was located off of the back-right corner of #11 green and so presented a heroic tee shot over the quarry and towards the fairway bunker. The word is that the Flynn renovation repositioned the tee to it's current spot in response to member complaints that the original was too difficult. The Foster plan would restore this unique feature.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 01:21:28 AM by Gib Carpenter »
GCA/AOK

Mark McKeever

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2011, 04:11:40 PM »
Would be an awesome tee shot if brought back Gib!

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Joe Bausch

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #84 on: February 22, 2011, 04:24:45 PM »

A note on the quarry rim as pertains to the 12th hole: The original Tilly back tee was located off of the back-right corner of #11 green and so presented a heroic tee shot over the quarry and towards the fairway bunker. The word is that the Flynn renovation repositioned the tee to it's current spot in repsponse to member complaints that the original was too difficult. Under the Foster plan we hope to restore this feature.

Wow, clicking off that yardage on Google looks like it gets out to 550 and a more challenging angle!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

JESII

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #85 on: February 22, 2011, 04:27:05 PM »
Long tee longer - regular tee shorter...everybody wins.

JMEvensky

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #86 on: February 22, 2011, 04:36:31 PM »
Sorry for the semi-thread jack,but I'm curious how well regarded Philly Cricket is up there.If the GAP schedules a tournament there,will players rush to sign up?

Cool looking course from the photos.

JESII

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #87 on: February 22, 2011, 04:52:44 PM »
Very, very well.

In my opinion, Pine Valley and Merion are clearly head and shoulders above with Aronomink's recent work putting distance between itself and the other real good courses up here. Behind Aronimink, there are 5 or 8 courses with a legitimate claim for the next few spots and the old course at Philly Cricket is in that group. The new course and the practice facility make PCC a one of the top golf facilities I've ever been to.

JMEvensky

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #88 on: February 22, 2011, 04:54:32 PM »
Thanks.

Powell Arms

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 4 11th now up for discussion
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2011, 07:47:31 AM »

Mark, the changes in 4 and 7 from the aerial to today were for various reasons in the 60s and 70s.  The changes to 4, which eliminated the grand hazard, were made for playability for shorter jitters and duffers. The changes eliminating the islands in the bunkers along 7 were made simply for ease of maintenance.

The Foster restoration plan does show these features restored, with 7 changed to a looooong par 4.



Just looking at the old aerial picture above, there is an obvious difference in bunker style that varies from hole to hole.  Holes 4 and 7 have a much different bunkering look than some of the others.  Do we know why?

Mark
PowellArms@gmail.com
@PWArms

Mark McKeever

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2011, 08:36:57 AM »
7 will be a par 4?!?!  Thats awesome.  7 through 11 is going to be a very very stern test in the middle of the round.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Kyle Harris

Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2011, 08:38:39 AM »
7 will be a par 4?!?!  Thats awesome.  7 through 11 is going to be a very very stern test in the middle of the round.

Mark

What difference does it make? ;-)

Joe Bausch

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2011, 08:39:06 AM »
#13.  A dogleg right par 4 with a green containing way more left to right pitch than it looks, at least to my eyes.



From the tee:



The conservative line stays left of this bunker.  Bigger hitters will take it over the left edge.



From just short of the green:

@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 4 13th on tap
« Reply #93 on: February 24, 2011, 08:29:36 AM »
On to the par 4 14th.  Here is the way it looked in an aerial from 1938:



And the way it looked in 2007 before the tree removal:



and



pics to follow later this morning....
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 4 13th on tap
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2011, 09:31:38 AM »
Now for the diagram and current pics.



The hole runs slightly uphill, then downhill to the green.  The drive landing area is blind:



When you get to the top of the rise, your reaction may be "whoa!  where did all the trees go!"





From right of the green:

@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

John Mayhugh

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: check out pre- and post-tree 14!
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2011, 01:26:45 PM »
I've just now had a chance to check out this photo tour.  Really nice job, Joe, with the historical photos a nice supplement. 

At the Oakmont charity auction in 2007 (it was that long ago??), I was fortunate enough to get to play with Powell, and have wanted to get to Philly ever since.  Now this shows how much I really need to.

Mark McKeever

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: check out pre- and post-tree 14!
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2011, 01:35:55 PM »
That mowed fairway strip around the bunkers in the 1938 picture is really neat.  This green had me scratching my head and even the caddies were disagreeing on my line to the middle left flag!


Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Powell Arms

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: par 5 12th now posted
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2011, 01:43:41 PM »
...

A note on the quarry rim as pertains to the 12th hole: The original Tilly back tee was located off of the back-right corner of #11 green and so presented a heroic tee shot over the quarry and towards the fairway bunker. The word is that the Flynn renovation repositioned the tee to it's current spot in response to member complaints that the original was too difficult. The Foster plan would restore this unique feature.

Gib and I talked about "the Tillie tee" offline.  Although always referred to at Cricket as "the Tillie tee"  it appears that it is actually a Flynn tee.

The restoration plan by Keith Foster does contemplate restortion of this tee and the quarry carry for the back tees only.  (the #3 green for Militia Hill is below, hence only for the back tees).  With this change and the restoration of the Hell's Half Acre on #4, the par 5's will be dramatically different.


From my copy of "The Nature Faker: William S. Flynn, Golf Course Architect" (get your copy here, http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47440.0.html ):





"Hole 12 (current hole 12)
494 yards, par 5
“On the twelfth the line of play has been laid across the quarry instead of around it.
This has been accomplished by setting a new tee to the left of the old and by felling the
trees that skirted the quarry. Two bunkers discourage play over the old fairway. The
length of this hole has been reduced from 523 to 494 yards.”

A June 30, 1930 scorecard from the Ralph Kennedy collection at the USGA shows that the
hole was in fact redesigned, as the yardage for the hole was 494 yards. The pre-existing
two bunkers were combined into one large bunker as can be seen in the 1938 aerial
photograph and remains this way today. The bold line from the tee would be down the
right side with a draw starting over the quarry. The green plan on the hole drawing is
suggestive that Flynn redesigned the green as well."





« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 01:51:02 PM by Powell Arms »
PowellArms@gmail.com
@PWArms

Powell Arms

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: check out pre- and post-tree 14!
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2011, 01:45:07 PM »
I've just now had a chance to check out this photo tour.  Really nice job, Joe, with the historical photos a nice supplement.  

At the Oakmont charity auction in 2007 (it was that long ago??), I was fortunate enough to get to play with Powell, and have wanted to get to Philly ever since.  Now this shows how much I really need to.

You're late, John!  Wissahickon opened for the season last Friday.
PowellArms@gmail.com
@PWArms

Mark McKeever

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Re: Philly Cricket Wissahickon photo tour: check out pre- and post-tree 14!
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2011, 01:50:32 PM »
Its open Powell?  I thought you guys got 5 more inches earlier this week?

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

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