[brad_miller]

Good old Red Mike is back in the news with auction set for the end of the month. (See article on GD web site)
This property and the GD story raise some interesting questions:

Must a "remote" location golf course be private? Clearly one  might say Pac Dunes and Bandon Dunes are public, but they are "world class" and isn't their season 10plus months.

How remote is too remote? How long must the season be even if it is remote? And most importantly how "good" must a course like this be?

Would it help if ther was other "world class" golf nearby?

[Slag_Bandoon]

 Ron Whitten makes some good points on what it needs to be successful.  There's a few lottery drawings before this auction comes up;  time to get out the big bag o' mojo.  

  

[Matt_Ward]

Brad:

I agree Ron Whitten outlined a few key points that could be done. Getting the State of North Dakota to buy the site makes perfect sense and would forever keep this wonderful layout intact and as a facility open to the public at reasonable rates.

Until you have traveled to Red Mike you don't know what "remote" is in the Continental USA. There is nothing next to it for M-I-L-E-S! I doubt major investors would see any financial opportunity given the desolation of the Northern Plains. I could be wrong, but some towns in that area are lucky to have even an McDonald's in town.

At least with Bandon / Pac Dunes you have I-5 nearby and you can access it somewhat quickly.

Stephen Kay did a fine job and I just hope the facility can be kept available as it has been. But, given its utter remote location and limited season you have some tough obstacles to overcome.

[Billy (Guest)]

Red Mike is a fine golf course.  Being from North Dakota I can tell you that even by ND standards RED MIKE is in the middle of no-where.  However if you look at the numbers for the golf course and if someone just wanted to own their own course for a couple of hundred thousand or even half a million and did not care about a ROI, they my be able to make a go of it.  

Red Mike's has a problem with no base play.  The town of Williston (population 13,000) is 28 miles away and the people in the community have never supported the course.  They had a good thing going with Minot and Bismarck golfers a few years ago, just prior to the opening of Hawktree in Bismarck.  

The biggest problem with the purchase of Red Mike is there is just no potential to turn it around.  Or should I say I do not see one, if any one else does please post it.      

[SL_Solow]

Perhaps the question is whether Red Mike is good enough to become a limited membership national club in the nature of Sand Hills?  Notwithstanding the limited season, if the course were "bought right" and "cottages" could be built at a reasonable cost, then memberships could be sold and dues and costs structured to support maintenance and conditioning.  The ability of this property to attract members would ultimately depend on ease of access(a negative), cost, and the attractiveness of the course and other attendant services(e.g. food quality, caddie program etc.).  The availability of other similar clubs would also be an important consideration as one must assume that the number of individuals capable of an investment of this type is limited.  But based on prior comments it appears that a daily fee operation is doomed absent a massive subsidy.

[RJ_Daley]

I think Billy is right on the money with his call.  Also, consider this if a group tried to convert it to a national membership hide-a-way, said people would expect it to be maintained in appropriate playable conditions all the time in such a short season.  What turf-head competent super is going to move way the heck out there?   I think that is a very short list! :-/

[Billy]

Also, one more thought,  Who or group of guys is going to pay for the course and then attempt to put in cabins or a motel of some sort just to see if they can make it.  Can you imagine the bankers response who is looking at those numbers.  

I know a number of people feel that it is a shame that the course can't make it but when one of those people tells me that they think you should invest a bunch more money in something around the course to help it.  I say, what do you want to do investment another million to see if you can come out on the first million.

In some parts of the USA that works in ND it works about 1 time in 1,000

[Slag_Bandoon]

 This is a dreamer's dream.  Imagine having the money to have the opportunity! to buy this kind of a toy.  If I had too much money, I'd be in there scrummin' with the "investors" and I wouldn't care too much about Return On Investment but gleaning a serious buzz on potentiality and the ride.   Alas, I don't even have enough money to put down a deposit on the 'Auction' partitcipation, so I'm relegated to a near life of munies and dream-come-true trips.    Ahhhhhhhhh  Life is good.  

  "I can't complain but sometimes I still do."   Joe Walsh

[Jeff_Lewis]

I am sure I am coming into this in the middle...but does anybody know how much debt is on the property and what the revenues and expenses were last year?

[SL_Solow]

Jeff; the Golf Digest article reports minimal debt(?) and losses of $27,000 last year, less in prior years.  Doesn't sound like much and leads one to question why its being sold notwithstanding the rationalizations contained in the article.  If an auctioneer has been retained, its customary for him/her to have an informational package containing the info you requested.

[Jeff_Lewis]

I found an earlier thread...sounds like proceeds from auction will offset debt and that is all folks...300,000 a year in revenue each year and roughly breaking even pre debt service and capex. but buyer wouldn't have debt service...there really isn't much value here as a daily fee course...and i can't figure out how anybody would ever get there to make it a private retreat.

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