[Mark Pearce]

But Adrian, you DID invent a statistic, didn't you?  And yes, I think 50% is miles out, frankly, even from wandering round Newcastle city centre on a weekend.  And no, I don't believe Newcastle has an unusually low proportion of tattoos and earings.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Yikes I can’t believe how this thread has turned. For those neutrals I can reveal that

A Scott is suffering from sunburn having not seen a blue sky in the previous 18 months.
B Mark has X ray eyes.
C Adrian has slept with exactly 100 ‘persons’ under the age of 30,but apparently not enought of them hail from Newcastle for his statistic to be meaningful.


Merry Christmas Everyone.
 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Mark- No I did not invent a statistic. Read exactly what I said. Break down how I said it. Reads perfect to me.

And my 50% guess was not so so shabby. 36% of 18 - 30s have tattoos.

[Scott Warren]

You think 36% and 50% are close? I'm glad you're not my accountant!

In any case, 36% of 18 to 30s apparently have a tattoo.

What % of them are members of a golf club or are looking to join one? And of that select group, I wonder how many have a tattoo that is visible wile wearing golf gear?

Whatever the resulting small % is, Adrian, should we really be forecasting the future of golf clubs on that basis? And given there are already plenty of people with tattoos in British golf clubs, does it even represent a departure from the status quo?

Out of interest, what percentage of 30 to 60-year-olds have ink?

[Mark Pearce]

Mark- No I did not invent a statistic. Read exactly what I said. Break down how I said it. Reads perfect to me.

That's what I do.  For a living.  I'm good at it.  You did invent a statistic.

And my 50% guess was not so so shabby. 36% of 18 - 30s have tattoos.

What is the source of your 36% figure, out of curiousity?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Mark- No I did not invent a statistic. Read exactly what I said. Break down how I said it. Reads perfect to me.

That's what I do.  For a living.  I'm good at it.  You did invent a statistic.

And my 50% guess was not so so shabby. 36% of 18 - 30s have tattoos.

What is the source of your 36% figure, out of curiousity?

You cant read.

[Adrian_Stiff]

You think 36% and 50% are close? I'm glad you're not my accountant!

In any case, 36% of 18 to 30s apparently have a tattoo.

What % of them are members of a golf club or are looking to join one? And of that select group, I wonder how many have a tattoo that is visible wile wearing golf gear?

Whatever the resulting small % is, Adrian, should we really be forecasting the future of golf clubs on that basis? And given there are already plenty of people with tattoos in British golf clubs, does it even represent a departure from the status quo?

Out of interest, what percentage of 30 to 60-year-olds have ink?

I dont know

[Mark Pearce]

Mark- No I did not invent a statistic. Read exactly what I said. Break down how I said it. Reads perfect to me.

That's what I do.  For a living.  I'm good at it.  You did invent a statistic.

And my 50% guess was not so so shabby. 36% of 18 - 30s have tattoos.

What is the source of your 36% figure, out of curiousity?

You cant read.

Classy.  What is the source of your statistic?

[Simon Holt]

Guys.  I am with Tony- this has turned pretty random.  I cant speak for Adrian, perhaps he did make a generalisation but I am not sure he based the now imfamous tatoo statement as the foundation of his thoughts on the average members club in the UK.  Perhaps a throw away statement that has been nailed rightly or wrongly.  There is no getting past the fact that the golfing demographic has changed in the 'Tiger Gereration'.  That is not to say it is his fault before someone starts Woods bashing....boring.

I have met most of you- and had some PM banter with Adrian who makes some very good points about club golf as do the rest of you.  I am not sure if you have met each other but it strikes me that you would agree about most things.  If I was given these posts without the names attached I could think of other people that were behind them but not normally any of you!   Its certainly very interesting to hear various takes on the subject which I would love to get back to.  Whats the answer!?

Anyone been out on the course recently?  Still frozen up here but some holes open.

[Bill_McBride]

But Adrian, you DID invent a statistic, didn't you?  And yes, I think 50% is miles out, frankly, even from wandering round Newcastle city centre on a weekend.  And no, I don't believe Newcastle has an unusually low proportion of tattoos and earings.

Mark, please pop over to Whitley Bay and report back!   (I think I told you about our overnight experience there in 2005, en route from Leeds (Alwoodley) to North Berwick.    )

[Mark Pearce]

But Adrian, you DID invent a statistic, didn't you?  And yes, I think 50% is miles out, frankly, even from wandering round Newcastle city centre on a weekend.  And no, I don't believe Newcastle has an unusually low proportion of tattoos and earings.

Mark, please pop over to Whitley Bay and report back!   (I think I told you about our overnight experience there in 2005, en route from Leeds (Alwoodley) to North Berwick.    )

Bill,

You did indeed.  I'm sure the statistics on a Friday or Saturday night in Whitley Bay would be rather less than representative of the population as a whole.  Also, I value my life rather too much to visit Whitley Bay on a weekend evening!

[Bill_McBride]

But Adrian, you DID invent a statistic, didn't you?  And yes, I think 50% is miles out, frankly, even from wandering round Newcastle city centre on a weekend.  And no, I don't believe Newcastle has an unusually low proportion of tattoos and earings.

Mark, please pop over to Whitley Bay and report back!   (I think I told you about our overnight experience there in 2005, en route from Leeds (Alwoodley) to North Berwick.    )

Bill,

You did indeed.  I'm sure the statistics on a Friday or Saturday night in Whitley Bay would be rather less than representative of the population as a whole.  Also, I value my life rather too much to visit Whitley Bay on a weekend evening!

The town, and the hotel, looked very nice on the internet!  Sort of like a cheery beach resort.  Instead it turned out to be like a scene from Bladerunner!

Merry Christmas to all my UK friends, time to stop the squabbling!  From my perspective you're all saying pretty much the same thing.  Times are changing, how do we respond if private club golf is to survive? 

[Duncan Cheslett]

Getting away from tattoos and piercings; no-one has mentioned golf clubhouses.

As someone who earns his living designing and making furniture and interior joinery,  I find clubhouses generally the most dreary, ininviting, and uininspired examples of interior design around. Is it really an unbreakable rule that every wall should be covered with stained oak honour boards and framed photos of past captains? Why does every club seem to choose the same metal conference chair who'se sole contributions to the human condition are that it stacks and that it is cheap? Do bar areas all have to look as though they are transported from faux 1970s 'Victorian' gin palaces?

I find it so depressing.  Even new build clubhouses seem to follow the boring traditional model.

I visit quite a few clubhouses in a professional capacity and make a lot of honour boards and old-fasioned trophy cabinets. I've never yet been to one that makes me go 'Wow! It wouldn't even cost any more - all it takes is a little flair and imagination.

I just see the same old same old...


...I guess that's what you get when you allow a committee of old men to make decisions!

Are there any clubhouses around that make a potential new member want to join on the spot?

 

[Bill_McBride]

Getting away from tattoos and piercings; no-one has mentioned golf clubhouses.

As someone who earns his living designing and making furniture and interior joinery,  I find clubhouses generally the most dreary, ininviting, and uininspired examples of interior design around. Is it really an unbreakable rule that every wall should be covered with stained oak honour boards and framed photos of past captains? Why does every club seem to choose the same metal conference chair who'se sole contributions to the human condition are that it stacks and that it is cheap? Do bar areas all have to look as though they are transported from faux 1970s 'Victorian' gin palaces?

I find it so depressing.  Even new build clubhouses seem to follow the boring traditional model.

I visit quite a few clubhouses in a professional capacity and make a lot of honour boards and old-fasioned trophy cabinets. I've never yet been to one that makes me go 'Wow! It wouldn't even cost any more - all it takes is a little flair and imagination.

I just see the same old same old...


...I guess that's what you get when you allow a committee of old men to make decisions!

Are there any clubhouses around that make a potential new member want to join on the spot?

 

Duncan, have you tried designing anything new and exciting?  Or are there no options?

I personally love the old clubhouses in the UK, the smaller ones.  Delamere Forest and Royal Cinque Ports come to mind.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I think one of the strengths of the clubs in the area in which Duncan C and I live is that they are all very different. There is a different ethos at each of them. Between the various clubs the area can cope with hideously wealthy footballers, the unemployed, the tattooed, the pierced, the fat, the bald, the ugly, even me. At the moment for a potential member the world is his/her oyster. He/she can pick and choose as he/she wishes. If Wilmslow doesn't appeal, there's always Prestbury, Stockport, Delamere Forest, Sandiway, Mere, Ringway, Dunham Forest, Reddish Vale, Bramall Park, Bramhall, Davenport, Macclesfield, Disley, Mellor and Townscliffe, Tytherington, Mottram Hall - already a huge variety. Then add in the little clubs such as Cheadle, Avro, Ashton-on-Mersey, Knutsford. Then there are the proprietary clubs and courses ranging from Styal to Heyrose, Woodside to Mobberley and there really is something for everybody.

Just for the record, my elder son's back is hideously encrusted in tattoo, but they found him perfectly acceptable to play for the scratch team and Wilmslow, and you'll find his name on the honours boards.

[David_Tepper]

I have a general question for our UK brethren, hopefully one that will generate a general answer. In the "typical" UK golf club (or in the club where you are a member), what percentage of your membership is 70 years or more old? 20%? 30%? 40%?

My guess is many golf clubs in the UK (and even more in the US) have a disproportionate number of elderly members (70 years or more old). Time will inevitably take its toll and many clubs will have to scramble over the next 5-10 years to simply replace their departing members, let alone grow their membership.   
 

[Mark Chaplin]

David - in many ways ageing memberships reflect extended life expectancy. People are staying fitter for longer and rather than hanging their clubs up at 70 there are plenty playing in their 80s.

Fortunately few of our 80 year olds drive white vans or have spikes through their noses but then we are not an average club!

[Niall C]

But Adrian, you DID invent a statistic, didn't you?  And yes, I think 50% is miles out, frankly, even from wandering round Newcastle city centre on a weekend.  And no, I don't believe Newcastle has an unusually low proportion of tattoos and earings.

Mark, please pop over to Whitley Bay and report back!   (I think I told you about our overnight experience there in 2005, en route from Leeds (Alwoodley) to North Berwick.    )

Bill,

You did indeed.  I'm sure the statistics on a Friday or Saturday night in Whitley Bay would be rather less than representative of the population as a whole.  Also, I value my life rather too much to visit Whitley Bay on a weekend evening!

I had one of the best nights of my life in Whitley Bay. I also had to visit the doctor after mind you.

Niall

[Niall C]

Niall,

What are some examples of the different standards of behaviour you see from newer and younger golfers compared to the older generation?

Scott

For what its worth I took Adrians comments as being general statements to make a point rather than accurate statistics but generally I do think that standards have changed not just on golf courses but in society in general. There is much less decorum than their used to be. For example I'm typing this in a library and their are two people on mobile phones nearby making no attempt to moderate there voice or move away so that they won't disturb anyone else. Thats just down right rude and inconsiderate.

As someone who was introduced into the game by my parents, the first things I was taught was the fundamentals of etiquette which basically represent good manners. Now you've played with me so I won't pretend to be perfect and their are times I'm sure that I've done some things that would have earned me a cuff round the ear 30 years ago, however I have rarely or ever used a mobile phone on the course, certainly not while playing with anyone else or within earshot of someone else. Neither do I tend to shout across to friends on other fairways or not repair pitch marks, replace divots or rake bunkers. As a generialisation, you see more of that sort of thing from the younger/newer golfer no matter how they happen to be dressed or whether they happen to be tattooed/pierced.

Niall

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