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Peter Ferlicca

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Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« on: November 01, 2010, 02:49:19 PM »
Pronghorn Golf Club is a very high end private club in Bend, OR.  It has two fantastic courses in a Nicklaus course and a Fazio Course.   The whole facility is pretty remarkable, clubhouse is gargantuan, and the conditions are most likely the best in the whole country.  The best fairways I have ever seen in my life by far, Tumble Creek has the best bent grass fairways I have seen till I came to Pronghorn and they just blew away Tumbles.  The Nicklaus course was a good course with a great variety in golf holes.  Being a member here would be a real treat.



Hole 1 Par 4




Hole 2 Par 5




Hole 3 Par 3




Hole 4 Par 4



Hole 5 Par 4



Hole 6 Par 4




Hole 7 Par 3




Hole 8 Par 5



Hole 9 Par 4



Hole 10 Par 4




Hole 11 Par 4




Hole 12 Par 4





Hole 13 Par 4




Hole 14 Par 3



Hole 15 Par 5




Hole 16 Par 5




Hole 17 Par 3





Hole 18 Par 4



« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 02:52:33 PM by PFerlicca »

Peter Ferlicca

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2010, 02:51:22 PM »
Hey sorry guys, if anyone knows what that means on the pictures that would be helpful.  This has never happened before, considering I did the exact same thing a couple minutes before with the Meadow Club pictures.

Carl Nichols

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2010, 02:57:22 PM »
The Meadow Club thread is getting a similar message.  Unfortunately I don't know how to fix it.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 02:59:42 PM »
I bet that if you upgrade to pro today your problem will be solved.  My favorite movie line of all time. "Pay that man his money."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uRzf7vNITg
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 03:01:56 PM by John Kavanaugh »

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 03:45:57 PM »
It means golf club atlas is too popular for the free version...

Two posts full of pictures.
Hundreds of viewers.
You'll eat up your bandwidth in no time.
(# megs per day)

They will be back up tomorrow.
Cheers

P.S.
Barney Thank you for the clip!!
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Matt_Ward

Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 05:06:42 PM »
The Nicklaus is a fine layout but the real deal at Pronghorn is the TF layout. Much better variety and more interesting holes / shots to be made. If only one round to play there then TF is the way to go in my mind. No doubt it being private will limit access to many but if there do whatever one can to play it.


John Kirk

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2010, 07:01:45 PM »
Wow, Peter, blessed with great clouds for picture taking.  A really fortunate day, camera wise.

Matt, I see a bit less distance between the two courses.  I like them about the same, though I'm not going to the trouble today to say why.

Matt_Ward

Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 07:17:40 PM »
John:

Would like to see your reasoning when time permits.

If I had ten rounds at Pronghorn the TF layout would have no less than seven.

Scott Weersing

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2010, 11:08:16 PM »

I know the photos make the layout look flatter than reality. But is there enough movement in the land? Does the course have a variety of uphill and downhill holes?

I saw a few uphill holes in the photos but conditioning is not everything in a good course design.

JC Jones

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2010, 09:14:34 AM »

I know the photos make the layout look flatter than reality. But is there enough movement in the land? Does the course have a variety of uphill and downhill holes?

I saw a few uphill holes in the photos but conditioning is not everything in a good course design.

I think there is more to course design than having a variety of uphill and downhill holes.  Take a look at Kelly Blake Moran's Hideout in Naples as example A.  That is a very good design on land more flat than my middle school girlfriend.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

PCCraig

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2010, 09:27:12 AM »
Those fairways are very green :)

Otherwise it looks like a more "safe" design by Jack's team.
H.P.S.

Greg Chambers

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2010, 10:13:17 AM »
The white bunkers look absolutely terrible.  If you look at the foreground and the background it's easy to see that there's no white sand anywhere near the site, so the bunkers look totally contrived.  The only thing they match are the concrete cart paths.  I wish course designers would spend more time matching the hazard features to the natural backdrop, rather than just saying "hey, this sand works great everywhere else we've designed a course" then making the client pay $100 per ton to have it shipped in. 
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

JC Jones

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2010, 10:20:36 AM »
The white bunkers look absolutely terrible.  If you look at the foreground and the background it's easy to see that there's no white sand anywhere near the site, so the bunkers look totally contrived.  The only thing they match are the concrete cart paths.  I wish course designers would spend more time matching the hazard features to the natural backdrop, rather than just saying "hey, this sand works great everywhere else we've designed a course" then making the client pay $100 per ton to have it shipped in. 

Ever seen pictures of Pasatiempo?
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Greg Chambers

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2010, 10:24:08 AM »
Yes I have.  What's your point?
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

JC Jones

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2010, 11:00:38 AM »
Yes I have.  What's your point?

Thoughts on the bleached white sand?
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Matt_Ward

Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2010, 11:13:09 AM »
The Nicklaus course is well done but it doesn't break new ground on what Jack's team is capable in doing. The site is basically flat with spots where it rolls somewhat. The short par-4 on the back side is one of the better holes there -- I also enjoyed the par-5 15th but the totality of the course is fairly "been there / done that" Jack.

On the other hand --

The TF course is exceptional in plenty of ways -- better diversity of holes -- more clever routing so that all natural features are incorporated and the turf quality is no less.

Nicklaus / Pronghorn is a good layout -- worth playing when there -- but not compelling to merit even higher acclaim in my mind.

Michael Dugger

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2010, 11:58:14 AM »
Prong Nick doesn't deliver quite the same punch as the Fazio course, in my opinion.  

#1 - #4 are pretty doggone flat and dull.  Fair golf but nothing earth shattering.

I do like the one shot 3rd hole; it looks like a reverse redan but plays like a normal redan, if that makes any sense.

#4 is a fairly cool short par 4 that has a tree in the fairway somewhat dictating play.  The ideal angle into the green is just about right exactly where that tree is, so this hole gives you something to think about.

#5 and #6 are the real dogs of the course, IMHO.  We start to move uphill a little bit here, but at this point I'm starting to feel like this course is a slog.

It all turns around at the 7th, a really solid one-shotter to an elevated green with a steep fall off on the front.  Good hole, like this one quite a bit.

#8 is just a beast.  From the blue tees I just don't have quite enough umph in the driver to clear the middle bunker.  Being in there is a true penalty, there is no chance to advance the ball more than about 100 yards.  So, that leaves you with about 250-275 to get home in three.  You can see how that goes.  It's a long hole.  

From there on in it's a great course.  The 16th and 18th are probably my least favorites, but #13 and #15 are fabulous.  The two nines have quite a different feel, this is definitely a back nine course.  There is plenty of movement on the back, almost ideal elevation changes starting from #12.  

It's a big course, you need your long game to be up to snuff...
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 12:01:29 PM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

John Kirk

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2010, 01:08:50 PM »
I like Pronghorn/Nicklaus for a variety of reasons:

1.  Unlike Michael Dugger, I thought holes 2-4 were excellent.  The 2nd hole is a wide par 5 that demands good directional strategy and execution to approach the well protected green from the best angle.   Similarly, the short par-4 4th hole requires good strategy, and the challenges are obvious enough to make you think about how to attack.  The 4th is somewhat like the 10th at Riviera.  Best to play left and leave yourself a wedge at the angled green.  Try to drive the green and miss right, and you have a big problem.

2.  There's a nice variety of golf holes, with different looks and hazards to negotiate.  One might argue the contrary opinion; that the course fails to have a coherent look to it, since the holes differ so dramatically.  #12 and #13 are both shortish par-4s through a rockier part of the course, but they are very different, and each is enjoyable.  The 13th hole features a pot bunker in the center of the fairway, exactly where I wanted to hit my drive.  The 12th hole is sort of strange, in that the play looks like a 4-iron or driver off the tee, with very risky options inbetween.

3.  The course starts out fairly gently, and increases the driving demands as the round progresses.  Carry bunkers for the best line of approach start around 215-220 yards out on the 1st hole (from the second set of tees, 7000 yards or so) and gradually increase to about 255-260 by the 11th hole, continually testing the player's driving ability.  The 11th hole is terrific, with an enormous fairway with three distinct startegic options to choose from.

4.  Unlike some of Nicklaus's more recent courses, the greens are very gentle.  Combined with the super fast, immaculate conditions, one senses he has a chance to make putts.  Since the rest of the course, from tee to green, is demanding, it's not a backbreaking test.  At least you have a chance to score if you can roll it straight.

5.  I liked the front nine better, but most will find the back nine, with two short par 4s and two reachable par 5s (holes 12 through 17 go par 4-4-3-5-5-3) to be the sportier side.  The back-to-back par 5s are once again excellent examples of directional strategy, where the player thinks about how to attack the hole before playing his ball.

6.  Gee Mike, the 6th hole is cool, isn't it?  500 yard uphill par 4, with a ridge about 20 yards short of the green.  If you can carry the ridge on the second shot, everything carries down (and beyond) a green sloped hard away from the player.  I made a 4 and felt quite excited about it.

The Fazio course has greater aesthetic appeal, and has some wonderful golf holes as well.  The Fazio team moved considerably more earth to complete the course.  The "look" of the Fazio course seems more consistent and integrated.  But the more I thought about the Nicklaus course, the more I appreciated the straightforward challenge and the variety.  Looks easy; plays hard.   A flat course laid upon flat basalt fields.

For me they are both in that 6-7 range, leaning towards 7.  Most Oregon residents love them.

Michael Dugger

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Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2010, 01:22:27 PM »
500 yd par 4's are rarely cool, not in my book, John.

Maybe with your game, but for me that was right about the time the wheels came off and I began to think this course is a long brutal slog.



What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Matt_Ward

Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2010, 02:39:48 PM »
John:

You have ten rounds at Pronghorn how do you split your time between the two ?

Agree w MD -- the bulk of the holes on the front side of JN are fairly pedestrian -- no doubt hard in some spots but nothing of the compelling architecture stuff. The back does raise the meter a good bit but the entire round at the TF layout is a good few steps beyond it.

Frankly, the JN course in certain instances could have been built and placed in FL. It is fairly straightforward but also a bit duller than many other JN courses I have played.

Anthony Gray

Re: Pronghorn Nicklaus, Bend OR (Pics)
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2010, 04:16:59 PM »


  Great quality photos.Looks a little lacking width and you are dead if you stray from the course.Rattle snakes?The course does give you a nice blend of eye candy but not over the top.I like the vegetation around the outer edge of some of the bunkers and the unsymetrical shapes of the bunkers.

  Anthony


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