Next Ryder Cup links course

[Mark Chaplin]

It is extremely unlikely a members club would ever host the Ryder Cup again in Europe, a club would a) not have the resources to "buy" it and b) there would be insufficient benefit from hosting the event.

So if the event were to go to a links then where?

On the mainland I can only think of 3 possible venues;

Kingsbarns
Dundonald
Trump Aberdeen

Kingsbarns is already a financial success or apears to be so, cannot see a reason why they would need to bid for it.

Dundonald although in essence private it does allow visitors, however the business is for sale and the investment is massive.

So that leaves Trump Aberdeen, a US owned European Ryder Cup venue. Would we go there is the price was right??

[Eric Smith]

Would we go there if the price was right??

Looks to be an awesome site for golf.

[ward peyronnin]

I was just in the area and Cruden Bay is right up the road.

I wasn't exactly sure where the proposed course is but most all that coastline looked fabulous

I think the Donald still has a holdout tho ?

[Ally Mcintosh]

I would guess you won't see the Ryder Cup back in Britain or Ireland until 2026 at the very earliest (aside from Gleneagles)....

It also appears that The European Tour / PGA / whoever's in charge have decided that every four years they will hold a bidding process ala the IOC and Fifa...

Money (both at sales and at potential revenue) will have more of an effect than ever on the process...

If someone were to give me evens on it not being held on another links course for at least 100 years, then I would take it...

But if it were, then any links course with natural viewing ampitheatres, good access and plenty of room for corporate hospitality will win...

[Adam Lawrence]

Ward - the course is under construction now. The guy who doesn't want to sell is still holding out, but that doesn't affect the golf course build, just the rest of the resort.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

A links course is a possiblilty, just not one in the UK.
Sweden, Holland and even the Iberian peninsula could well present a package using one of there links courses that may be attractive to the Tour...as long as the price is right.

[JNC Lyon]

Mark,

Why not Sandwich?  Would the powers that be really say no to one of the great British championship venues if they wanted to host?  I think Sandwich definitely has the course and the space to do it.  Why not?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Mark,

Why not Sandwich?  Would the powers that be really say no to one of the great British championship venues if they wanted to host?  I think Sandwich definitely has the course and the space to do it.  Why not?

Here is the reason AGAIN ...... £$£$£$£$£

[Sean_A]

Mark,

Why not Sandwich?  Would the powers that be really say no to one of the great British championship venues if they wanted to host?  I think Sandwich definitely has the course and the space to do it.  Why not?

JNC

Even if a handful of Sarnies wanted put up the cash, what is the business model to recoup that investment?  The club couldn't be more famous.  They already charge a bomb for green fees.  I am guessing they already have as many vistors as they want.  This is the same scenario for all the Open courses with the exception of TOC and Carnasty.  I honestly could see one of those courses one day hosting the RC, but I won't hold my breath.   

Ciao

[David_Tepper]

I find this recurring inclination to romanticize and identify European Tour (and even GB&I) golf with links golf somewhat dubious. How many golfers on the Euro Ryder Cup team have played at lot of links golf in their lifetime? How many tournaments on the Euro Tour are played each year on links golf course? How many golfers with Euro Tour cards are experienced links golfers?

While I ask these questions rhetorically, I suspect the answer for each is very, very, very few. The reality is that most Euro Tour golfers are far more familiar with "modern-style"  courses than they are with links courses. From a competitive point of view, there is virtually nothing the Euro Tour can gain from hosting the Ryder Cup on a links course.

If there is neither a financial nor a competitive advantage to be gained, there is absolutely no reason for it to happen. It likely never will.    

[Padraig Dooley]

I find this recurring inclination to romanticize and identify European Tour (and even GB&I) golf with links golf somewhat dubious. How many golfers on the Euro Ryder Cup team have played at lot of links golf in their lifetime? How many tournaments on the Euro Tour are played each year on links golf course? How many golfers with Euro Tour cards are experienced links golfers?

While I ask these questions rhetorically, I suspect the answer for each is very, very, very few. The reality is that most Euro Tour golfers are far more familiar with "modern-style"  courses than they are with links courses. From a competitive point of view, there is virtually nothing the Euro Tour can gain from hosting the Ryder Cup on a links course.

If there is neither a financial nor a competitive advantage to be gained, there is absolutely no reason for it to happen. It likely never will.    

Of this Ryder Cup team, Harrington, McDowell, McIlroy, Fisher, Donald, Westwood, Poulter would have played the vast majority of their amateur tournament golf on links courses. Hanson, Molinari, Molinari and Kaymer would have played probably two or three tournaments a year on links courses.

Any competitive golfer from GB&I would be very experienced links golfers and most European golfers especially those who competed at international level would have a significant experience on links courses.

Granted they would play very few tournaments now on links courses but a golfer playing at Ryder Cup level would be easily able to adapt back to links style golf.

The American Ryder Cup players would also easily adapt to links stlye golf, most guys making the trip to the Open don't have too many problems adapting.

Would the Europeans have an advantage? Maybe a slight one. Would it make a difference to the score? Hard to know, but an experienced links player playing badly wouldn't beat an inexperienced one playing well.

As for potential venues, if Trump wants to write a blank cheque the tournament would be his to host.

[David_Tepper]

Padraig -

Luke Donald and McDowell played a lot of amateur (non-links) golf going to college in the U.S. I believe Poulter turned pro at a fairly young age and did not have much of a career as an amateur golfer.

The Euro Tour plays the the British Open, the Dunhill and occasionally the Irish Open on links courses, but the rest of the year most of the courses have a distinctly TPC look & feel.

DT   

[Kevin Pallier]

Kingsbarns
Dundonald
Trump Aberdeen

Mark

It would be ironic wouldn't it if Trump Aberdeen came into the mix ?

Does Dundonald have the space ? Kingsbarns would be a good choice for mine.

[Bill Gayne]

I don't know about the money side but Pat Ruddy should bring it to The European Club. I think he's a big dreamer who loves golf and maybe they could put together a syndicate in Dublin. (Although, with the current state of the Irish economy I'm not sure if there's enough money left in Ireland.)

[Padraig Dooley]

David

McDowell lives in Portrush. It is safe to say he has a lot of links experience. When a golfer comes home for the summer from a US college he would play a lot of tournament links golf eg McDowell in 2000 played tournaments at Lahinch, 2 at Portrush, Castlerock, Royal Dublin, Carnoustie that I can think of off the top of my head.

So guys like Donald, Casey etc would still have played a lot of links golf while in college in the US. Even Poulter who turned pro at a young age would have played plenty of links golf.

The question you asked was how many golfers on the European Tour are experienced links golfers, all the GB&I golfers are, if playing lots of links golf growing up and 2-4 tournaments a year on tour (the Dutch Open is played from time to time on links) means being an experienced links golfer, which I think it does.

The big GB&I amateur tournaments (The Amateur, St. Andrew's Links, Lytham Trophy, Irish, English, Scottish, Welsh Amateur, Brabazon, etc.) are played on links courses and have a big entry from Europe so the vast majority of top class European amateurs and hence eventual players on the European Tour have significant experience on links courses as well. Yes, plenty of courses on tour have a TPC feel but these guys are the some of the best players in the world and can adapt their games with little or no hassle.

[David_Tepper]

Padraig -

I stand corrected. Thanks for the additional info.

DT

[Mark Chaplin]

In any case most links courses would play like Celtic Manor in October just without the mud.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I don't know about the money side but Pat Ruddy should bring it to The European Club. I think he's a big dreamer who loves golf and maybe they could put together a syndicate in Dublin. (Although, with the current state of the Irish economy I'm not sure if there's enough money left in Ireland.)

With no disrespect to the financial and networking muscle of Pat Ruddy, I'm not sure he's in Ryder Cup scale... He may come on here and tell us he's a multi-billionaire with the ear of every golf administrator worldwide... But I suspect he'd be more inclined to say that he runs a small family business astutely and works at the thing he loves...

The person with enough money in Ireland who could put together a sensible bid is J.P. McManus... He loves golf which is a good start... But I would imagine that he would look to take the cup to a place like Adare Manor... In fact, he'd probably just build a new golf course which will be the increasing trend... Anyway, you'd say Ireland would be out of the running until at least 2030 given that it's just held it...

Who knows who'll have the money by then?

P.S. I can't think of one links course in Ireland that could (or would want to) accommodate the infrastructure needs...

[Mark Pearce]

In any case most links courses would play like Celtic Manor in October just without the mud.

At last, the elephant in the room is out.  Whether open for play or not, even a links course plays soft if it gets the deluge that CM got this weekend.

[Sean_A]

In any case most links courses would play like Celtic Manor in October just without the mud.

At last, the elephant in the room is out.  Whether open for play or not, even a links course plays soft if it gets the deluge that CM got this weekend.

I unreservedly disagree with both of these fine gentlemen.  True, a links will play softer, but then soft is a relative term.  A links would be playable and play would have been completed on Friday and Sunday if a links were used - thats the proof of the pudding.  I played Burnham on Saturday and it wasn't keen, but it wasn't anywhere near wet.  Sorry, this issue isn't even debatable. 

Ciao