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George Pazin

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Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« on: September 22, 2010, 02:50:15 PM »
The series resumes with one of my very favorite posters. I asked Ian to be one of the earliest participants, but in true Ian fashion, he said that he'd prefer others to have a chance, since he's already had a moment in the spotlight with his Feature Interview (click here: Feature Interview with Ian Andrew).

I told him I'd get started, but that I'd hope he'd make himself available at some point in the future, and he graciously agreed to run the gauntlet now. :)

Ian's been involved in the industry for quite awhile, and I think he's even been posting on here longer than me! I've always found his thoughts on golf course architecture to be well-reasoned, full of insight drawn from experience, and, well, downright thoughtful.

Please welcome Ian with lots of questions about golf, gca, life in the biz, Mike Weir, the state of Canadian golf, etc.

Have fun and play nice!

-----

On deck: Gotta do some diggin, I've lost track of a few people - apologies if you're one of them! (I'm looking at you, Ron and Kevin...)

5 most recent:

Martin Toal

Mac Plumart <=== still don't know what happened to this one :( must have been a technical glitch

Padraig Dooley

Ben Sims

Ben Stephens

Full list:

GTK participants
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2010, 03:09:15 PM »
Great to see.
From your experiences please tell us what types of clubs have gotten the most out of your work or ideas.
or what can you teach other green committee members in the treehouse about how to best work with an architect.
Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2010, 03:41:18 PM »
Can you get that Weir character to make a little more rain?

Bandon Dunes resort has 6 holes that run parallel to the beach. Four of them run northward. Two of the run southward. If given a course to do there, would you correct this by building holes running south?


« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 03:52:55 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 04:31:00 PM »
The Highlights/Bio

Born in Portsmouth, England
Immigrated to Canada in the 1970’s

My father was a terrific player and he loved watching the PGA and we both watched Sunday every week-end all year long. It was while watching the Bing Crosby where I asked my father if people designed courses (I was 13). Once he said yes, that was when I decided that I wanted to be a golf architect.

He right away bought me the World Atlas of Golf and then The Golf Course to read. I then bugged him for Golf Architecture in America (which he got a photocopy of for me because he could not find the book). I now have a first edition.  

I then contacted the ASGCA at 16 and they told me to take Landscape Architecture. So eventually I did.

I began playing once I passed an etiquette test (my father was a club captain) and played a ton till I got my first job. I was a solid junior player, but never much more than that.

My father took me all over North America to see and study courses including: Nova Scotia to play Highlands Links at 15, Pinehurst, Westchester County, Scotland, England, and the Monterrey Peninsula (where I got my father onto Cypress Point … and we played a few holes with O’Meara too). I took him to Ireland more recently.

I graduated both Ryerson U. (Toronto) and the Guelph U. with a degree in Landscape Architecture. I barely played over those 6 years because I was working my way through school (my choice) and worked six days a week in construction during the summer. I designed and built my first green at 16 at Carrying Place, while in school and yes its still there.
We made to Ireland 10 years after.

Doug and I ... sort of.... ;D



I briefly worked as a landscape Architect but working as a golf architect began with Doug Carrick in 1989. The company was called Robinson and Carrick at the time and Doug was finishing King Valley. I worked with Doug for 18 years before heading out on my own.

I began with new courses but ended up doing almost exclusively renovation work for the last dozen years. The renovation market exploded during that period and I was busy going to get new work, meetings and supervising all the construction.

In the middle of all of this Chris Brands introduced me to some site called Golf Club Atlas in 1999. It began a long quest to go and see the courses that were coming in discussion. The site has its moments, but it certainly helped me too.

I also attended the first Archipalozza where I saw this fresh new course called Pacific Dunes and decided what I was working on was not what I wanted to build. That week-end convinced me that I would have to leave.

I left because Doug and I had grown very far apart architecturally and it was a strain on our relationship. We both agreed, when I told him I was going, that it was time.

The projects that most reflect my involvement are Ballantrae and Muskoka Bay.

The controversial 9th hole - The Funnel Hole


I began my current business in 2006. In the first year I had 25 clients (most coming over from the original business since they were almost all clients I brought in). I currently have 40 clubs that work with me and 95% of the work is restorative-based. I’m comfortably and happy with what I have, but I do want to be a couple of new courses to express my thoughts on golf design.

The three years on the blog was originally supposed to be about marketing myself and sharing what I believe. It became a complete re-evaluation of everything I knew about architecture and a journey into the things that I wanted to know. My design philosophy completely changed through that experience and the courses that I was seeking out to better understand the art.

In 2009 Mike Weir was looking for an architect to partner with and put out a request for interest from any Canadian architect. About 20 architects actively sought that position and through the process I became the architect that fit the best. We have looked at quite a few projects, declined the ones that don’t fit and gone through some level of process with a couple others, but we have nothing active. We are looking for one project and not looking to build an empire (or large design firm).

The most likely opportunity to see a new course from us will be at Laval-sur-le-lac in Montreal. It’s a high-end private club that is looking to completely rebuild the Blue Course. The presentation was last night, in French, and the vote comes in the next two weeks. This is our best chance for new construction for next year.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 09:47:57 PM by Ian Andrew »

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2010, 04:35:54 PM »
And... now there are no questions to ask  ;D
jeffmingay.com

Mac Plumart

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 04:38:26 PM »
Ian...

What do you like most about golf?

What do you think differentiates you from other golf course architects?

What is your favorite golf club to hit and why?



Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

George Pazin

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 04:40:29 PM »
Naaah, that was just the appetizer!

Ian, please name an unsung Thompson course and tell us why it deserves more praise.

Which unsung Thompson course would you love to call your own (in other words, set aside the obvious Highland Links, Jasper, Banff,etc)?

If you were building a course for yourself, what would it be like?

Do you have a favorite project that you've worked on?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 05:17:53 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Dale Jackson

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 05:19:19 PM »
Ian,

any courses you would like to work on?

Thompson course most in need of restoration/renovation?

other Canadian courses that should consider a restoration/renovation?

any courses left on your "bucket" list to see?

is there a piece of land in Canada that cries out to be developed as a golf course (something you have seen that makes you go OMG, I would love to work on that property)?
I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 05:35:23 PM »
Crap, I’ll answer these in order as I get a chance.

First up Mike (question 1):

From your experiences please tell us what types of clubs have gotten the most out of your work or ideas.

I think the clubs that are interested in their architectural legacy are the ones that draw the most out of me. I love the history of golf architecture and digging through the past to find out what was once there. I love to put the puzzle back together and show a club what they once had and then discuss how they can bring key elements back. I also enjoy figuring out how to go about building the features so that any work can blend in with older work.
I love that type of work.

I’ve recently begun working with Knollwood, near New York, and I’ve had so much fun digging through their archives and explaining their lost history and going through why it’s important to restore some of the original features and how that will effect play. We’ve done the 16th green site and I think this shows the potential of the course. It’s mostly still all there waiting to be found.

Before


And after on 16

« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 05:37:09 PM by Ian Andrew »

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2010, 05:43:32 PM »
Mike (question 1):

What can you teach other green committee members in the tree house about how to best work with an architect.

I'll give Architect Alister Mackenzie, who apparently had little regard for committees, the first word. In his 1930s manuscript, The Spirit of St. Andrews, he wrote, "The history of most golf clubs is that a committee is appointed, they make mistakes, and just as they are beginning to learn from their mistakes, they resign office and are replaced by others who make still greater mistakes, and so it goes on.”


This is a typical committee walk....


The Greens Committee has a responsibility of overseeing the management of the golf course, but they must not be involved in its day-to-day management. They should be involved in the selection of a golf course superintendent and a golf course architect. They should also provide the superintendent with a basic budget and general direction for the club. They are not there to micromanage either. They need not have specific knowledge of turfgrass management or golf architecture, but they must understand the game of golf. They must be willing to learn and know when to listen. Know it alls or dictators are disruptive to a greens committee and the staff.

In charge of the committee is the green chairman. The chairperson’s task is to organize and hold regular meetings of the committee and superintendent to discuss new ideas or to deal with any problems that have arisen. The greens chair or committee representative should also be present for any meeting with the golf architect, and should be able to make to make quick decisions when changes arise in the field. An effective chairman and committee can develop and implement plans that can be enjoyed by golfers for generations. Conversely, an ineffectual committee can drag the course down, through meddling or poor decision making. Being a chairman or member of the Green Committee is not a popularity contest. Tough decisions frequently must be made regarding disruptive and expensive programs and projects, and thick skin and an ample dose of conviction are required. Green Committees serve a vital role in the operation of the golf course.

If you are going to serve on a greens committee remember you are there to serve the best interests of the golf course, not for your own personal interests. If you can not do this, do not serve on the committee. As a golf course architect that is my commitment, the best interests of the course must come first.

I think Alister MacKenzie should be allowed to also have the final word of advice to a greens committee. “How often have we known committees, presumably consisting of men of intelligence, receiving the statement that golf is played for fun, with eyes and mouths wide open in astonishment? It is always difficult to persuade them that the chief consideration that should influence us in making any alterations to a golf course is to give the greatest pleasure to the greatest number. Any change to a course that does not do this is manifestly a failure.”

« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 09:38:34 PM by Ian Andrew »

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2010, 06:10:09 PM »

Say you wanted to enhance your firm with a GCA, non-architect participant. Who would you include in a short list of 3 people, and why?

Kelly,

The obvious answer is a researcher. There are quite a few clever people on here who are fully capable of finding images and articles at a moments notice and that would be a valuable skill to me. I won’t list a name or names, but there are at least five who would be a great asset to me.

The next would be a shaper/builder. It would be somebody who has the “patience” to build very detailed work. I would want them to understand play and be well versed in architectural history. I would also want them to be part of the design process.

An intern. I think students have a lot of idealism and drive that is contagious. I think their quest to learn new things would have a healthy impact of the design and construction process.

If you wanted names – not a chance….they’re all crazy here
 ;D

George Pazin

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2010, 06:34:35 PM »

If you wanted names – not a chance….they’re all crazy here
 ;D

While I won't disagree that we're all crazy here, you couldn't go wrong with guys like Don Mahaffey or Kyle Harris, to name just a couple disparate guys (Don for knowledge, Kyle for passion). Actually, you would probably do well with just about any of the Green Keepers who post on here. I'll leave the student research to you.

 :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2010, 07:51:01 PM »
Ian

What's your 10 favourite courses that you would recommend one see architecturally in GB&I ?

What did you take from your visit to Australia and the Sandbelt last year ?

jonathan_becker

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2010, 08:00:04 PM »
Ian

What's your 10 favourite courses that you would recommend one see architecturally in GB&I ?

What did you take from your visit to Australia and the Sandbelt last year ?

Kevin,

Ha, you beat me to it in regards to asking about down under!  ;)

Ian,

I too am wondering what you took from your trip to Australia.  What holes stood out the most for you?

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2010, 08:50:21 PM »
Garland,

Can you get that Weir character to make a little more rain?

Augusta on the Sunday before the Masters with Mike and Jim


I’ve seen Mike a few times out on tour in the last couple of years. He works very hard on his game and is likely the fittest person I know. He’ll begin the process of working with a teacher once his wrist is healed. I have no doubts that he’ll find his driver once again and get back to playing well.


Bandon Dunes resort has 6 holes that run parallel to the beach. Four of them run northward. Two of the run southward. If given a course to do there, would you correct this by building holes running south?

The holes on Pacific Dunes are equally split north and south. I think Tom’s routing is very good and well balanced with that regard.

The holes on Bandon Dunes go to the water at the 4th (I feel this is an ocean hole), the 5th and 6th head north, the 15th north heads north and the 16th back south. I don’t see the issue with balance.

If I were doing the next course I would accept whatever was offered by the landscape. I’ll give you an example to explain what I mean. I’ve always countered the argument that all four par threes should play in a different direction by pointing to Merion. The last three par threes all play in the same direction, but I doubt more than a handful of players have ever given that second thought. It is still the routing that I would argue is the best that I know of.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 09:25:06 PM by Ian Andrew »

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2010, 09:11:27 PM »
What do you like most about golf?

That it created a bond between my father and me that has lasted a lifetime.

I love the architecture, the history, the game when presented properly, the friendships, etc. but I have a lifetime of memories with my dad that are bigger than anything I’ve done on a personal level.

We made it to Ireland 10 years after the original date due to Dad's complications with skin cancer


What do you think differentiates you from other golf course architects?

I think I’m a little more willing than most to completely reconsider an idea when presented with new alternatives. I like to question everything I believe about design on a regular basis. I find the process healthy.

What is your favorite golf club to hit and why?

4 Rescue

It’s 200 yards which I can play as a tee shot, I can cut or hook it more than any iron at will, I love to play chip shots with it and I can putt quite effectively with it. It was my first pick for a three club match at Bandon Trails.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 09:17:50 PM by Ian Andrew »

Garland Bayley

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2010, 09:50:09 PM »
Garland,

...
The holes on Bandon Dunes go to the water at the 4th (I feel this is an ocean hole), the 5th and 6th head north, the 15th north heads north and the 16th back south. I don’t see the issue with balance.
...

They keep putting the ocean predominantly on our slice side. Perhaps we should insist on lefty days when we play the courses in reverse. ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Anthony Gray

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2010, 09:55:55 PM »

  What do you think of Cruden Bay?

  Anthony


Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2010, 10:03:59 PM »
Please name an unsung Thompson course and tell us why it deserves more praise.

Kawartha Golf & Country Club

It’s without a doubt the best course not on the top 100 of the current rankings and in my mind an easy top 25 candidate. The course is not hard, but the holes are consistently excellent and the threes are an awesome collection. It’s Jasper without the mountains good in my opinion.

The downhill 8th - 150 yards


The 9th green bunkers - 450 yard - par  4


The incredible 14th green bunkering - 500 yd - par 5


The par three 18th finisher - 210 yds





Honourable mention: Cataraqui in Kingston

The 18th green is pictured here
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 10:32:44 PM by Ian Andrew »

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2010, 10:13:31 PM »
If you were building a course for yourself, what would it be like?

Depends on the land:

Here’s two proposals where images were produced.

This is the image for the original Predator Ridge project


This is one of the holes from Laval-sur-le-lac Blue (notice the Australian influence)


The site dictates the decision.

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2010, 10:30:09 PM »
 
Do you have a favorite project that you've worked on?

I think I was most proud of the work at St. George’s. I felt a very heavy burden because of the historical significance of the course. I was approached by the club and asked to do all the research and follow through with the renovation/restoration of the bunkers. The club placed a great deal of trust in me.

I was determined to get the work as accurate as possible and I had to look into new techniques and construction methods to get things right. I learnt a hell of a lot from the process and I’m very proud of the work that was done.

The 5th hole – long par four where the Oak is very much in play


The 11th - a short par five – I love the “airplane” bunker which was brought back using an old photo


The 12th – the bunkers on the left are 12 and 15 feet deep respectively – Thompson add the fill to get them that way


Brian Phillips

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2010, 03:56:37 AM »

4 Rescue

It’s 200 yards which I can play as a tee shot, I can cut or hook it more than any iron at will, I love to play chip shots with it and I can putt quite effectively with it.
Yeh, and then you woke up.   ;D
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 03:58:38 AM by Brian Phillips »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2010, 10:20:04 AM »
Any courses you would like to work on?

I would like a chance to work with more architects if I could. Mackenzie, Maxwell, a second Colt and a Fowler course in particular. I’ve become very enamored with Maxwell and Fowler of recent. I like the learning process of working with new architects, it brings an extra level of excitement for me.

Thompson course most in need of restoration/renovation?

Banff Springs – as good as it is – it was far better before.

Honorable mention goes to Montebello, it would have been the big 6 if it was completely intact.

Other Canadian courses that should consider a restoration/renovation?

Royal Quebec, Mt. Bruno, Montebello, Royal Ottawa, Summit, Allandale, Pine Ridge, Royal Mayfair and Royal Colwood would all derive the greatest benefit from that approach.

The opener at Allandale – a simple grassing exercise to get it back to super cool…


Any courses left on your "bucket" list to see?

It never ends. There’s always more to see…

The current bucket list is:

Myopia Hunt
Woodhall Spa
Sand Hills
Fishers Island
Oakmont

Hirono
Camargo
Swinley Forrest
Lawsonia Links
Lahinch

is there a piece of land in Canada that cries out to be developed as a golf course (something you have seen that makes you go OMG, I would love to work on that property)?

The bike track 30 minutes south of Saskatoon has the most amazing dunes and blow outs in Canada. It’s the best site that I know of outside of some dunes land that will never get developed on the east coast of Canada.

I would love to rebuild Fox H’rbour, the site was great and the potential was awesome.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 02:02:29 PM by Ian Andrew »

John Foley

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2010, 11:10:54 AM »
Was there something special you saw in Travis's work that made him a focus of your work?

Where is his best place to see how good & under appreciated he really was?

Which of the courses you have worked on gives you the most pride?

Keep the blog going - it great to have people on this site with real talent share their thoughts, idea's & opinions.

All The Best
Integrity in the moment of choice

Bill Brightly

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2010, 11:17:26 AM »
Ian, my question is about the placement of fairway bunkers when you are asked to restore ODG courses.  All things being equal, do you believe in restoring a bunker on the exact spot where the ODG placed the bunker, even if long hitters easily fly the bunker,  or moving it out to where current players land the ball.