Dr. B's Course Review OTW - #5 -- THE VIRGINIAN GOLF CLUB (photo tour)

[Bart Bradley]

Installment #5

The Virginian Golf Club

Attributed to: Tom Fazio 1993

Location:  Bristol, VA

Historical Significance:  Host of the US Senior AM 2003

Ratings History: #2 Best New Private 1994 Golf Digest
         Rated as High as #53 Modern 1998 Golfweek


What makes it great:  

Designed over lovely naturally rolling property in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains, the Virginian has some compelling architecture.  There are 18 very-good to good holes. The greens have some interesting ridges and contours.  The 9th and 16th holes are standouts and will be highlighted below. An idea often praised on this website, the course utilizes grassy swales, depressions and  fall-offs to create "penalties" for missed shots.

The clubhouse:




Holes to note:

#4  The demanding 491 yd par 4...The drive carrying the right hand bunker or played just left will catch a giant speed slot and put your tee shot about 150 yds out.

tee shot:



view of green from hill in right rough:



#5  A dangerous and quirky 379 yd par 4.  This hole was changed after its original design for the better, in my opinion.  Initially the pond stopped well short of the green and there was a bunker on the hillside short of the green.  The bunker was removed and the pond edge dug out.  The front of the green now sits hard against the pond with a severe false front.  The fringe is shaved tight so that any balls short or left are likely to end up in the hazard.  Unfortunately, this type of presentation is not used anywhere else on the course so it feels a bit out of place.  See my suggestions below for the changes made to the 6th hole and how this idea could have been tied in there.

tee shot:



from just short and right of the green; note the severe false front and the shaved bank



a view of the green from left of the pond:




#7 328 yard driveable downhill par 4.  A very interesting routing choice to place the reachable par 5 6th and driveable par 4 as back-to-back holes.



#9 Outstanding par 4 454 yds.  The drive carries over a ravine to a serpentine fairway.  A depression right of the fairway narrows the landing area at about 290 yds off the back tee.  The preferred angle is from the right.  The green has an overall right to left slope and back to front.  A small bowl gathers approach shots which are short-left.

   tee shot over the ravine from the tips:




      from left of the blue tees:



   from the short left fairway:



#11 440 yard dogleg left par 4 with a semi-blind tee shot leading to this attractive approach.  The green has a substantial ridge bisecting the green at an angle making it fun and challenging to get the ball close.



#12 The short 372 yd par 4 with a shallow green and false front on the left half.



   the greensite:



#15 191 yd par 3 ...only spoiled by the house directly behind the tee -- just keep looking forward!



#16 The very cool, interesting and strategic 417 yd par 4 ...The left hole location makes positioning the drive of utmost importance.  Drives in the left half of the fairway must contend with the specimen trees to get anywhere close to the pin.  Just to the right of the green the land falls away (down 10 or so feet), so playing safe is no easy task.

   tee shot:



   view from the right side of the fairway:  the preferred angle into this demanding green:




   view from the left fairway; the tree guards the left half of the green from this non-ideal angle:



#17 438 yd par 4 dogleg right.  The cluster of bunkers on the right are in play for the soft cut, whereas the cluster of bunkers on the left are unreachable.

   tee shot:



   approach:
 


#18  552 yd par 5 with a very complex green. Note the grassy depression to the right of the fairway in the landing zone.



the approach:



What makes it unique?

#8 The lovely par 3 8th hole sits adjacent to a natural spring.  The water flowing from the spring house exits naturally with no pump/augmentation.  The spring was originally used as the water supply for Bristol, VA but TVA works projects created better sources for the city.  The spring has run nearly every day since the course has opened except for a couple of exceptions during times of extreme drought.  I have NO IDEA why additional trees have been planted behind the green this year.

A view from the back left tee box 195 yds, downhill from here..



The Spring House with spring flowing briskly:



The facility has 21 holes; 3 extra holes are referred to as the "practice holes" which are a great place for beginners or children.  Personally, after a long range session, I like to play the 3 holes to see if my work has "paid-off".

The 1st Practice Hole 320 yd par 4





What makes it NOT so great?

The course is basically unwalkable because of several routing choices.  At a recent high school match players had to be shuttled after holes 3, 5, and 8.  The homes being built now dominate and overpower what used to be a serene natural surround.  Nearly every hole has O.B.  The zoysia fairways generally do not play firm or fast and few shots get much roll; the ground game is not an option because of the turf/maintenance meld.

#6  Changes to the 6th hole have been poorly executed and ill-conceived.  The short par 5 6th was initially designed and built to have an incredibly deep and intimidating bunker short of the green for those choosing to go for the green in 2 shots.  The design of the bunker proved to be very difficult to maintain and so it was removed and a rather mundane, much less deep bunker was put in its place, now taking the risk out of attempting to reach the putting surface in 2. A better solution may have been to mimic the changes performed on the 5th hole:  shave the bank and create a funnel to direct all short shots into a small bunker at the base of the hill.  This choice may have better tied the changes at the 5th hole into the overall course and created some risk-reward to the 6th hole.

   The tee shot on this 477 yd uphill, dogleg right par 5 must contend with the large limb ("the sheriff") overhanging the left portion of the fairway:



   The approach after a perfect drive down the left (the photo is a bit deceiving as the cluster of 6 bunkers is approx 120 yds from the green, whereas the final bunker in line with the flag is greenside):





   The bunker being discussed short of the 6th green:



A photo of the current bunker with my estimated outline of the size and position of the original bunker.  The original bunker would have had a flat bottom near the bottom of the hill with a very vertical face...most all of the balls would end up in the bottom of the bunker, then requiring a bunker shot over a 10-12 foot high lip.



#10 Downhill tee shot, uphill approach 351 yd par 4...I am including pictures of this hole because GCA's Jim Lewis once posted that it was one of the worst holes in America (I don't see that, but it is not my favorite on the course)



#13 The 229 yd par 3 thirteenth was a standout hole when designed. The green sat beautifully in a natural bowl.  The club once bragged that the hillside behind the hole was left untouched by real estate as a symbol of their devotion to protecting the golf course:






My most recent visit:  August 2010

My overall rating:  6.0

Rating Trend:  FREEFALLING  -- the course deteriorates with each additional house built and O.B. stake placed

Previous Reviews:


Installment 1 -- Fontainbleau -- Fountainbleau, France: http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45366.0/

Installment 2-- Whistling Straits -- Haven, WI : http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45417.0/

Installment 3 - Grandfather Mountain Springs - Linville, NC: http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45569.0/

Installment 4 -- Golf de Saint-Germain --Saint-Germain-En-Laye, France -- http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45664.0/

[CJ Carder]

Bart,

Thanks for the pictures and a great writeup.  The Virginian is a club I've always seen advertised in various VA golf magazines, but never have I seen anything other than the advertisement, which I believe is the 5th hole from looking at your pictures.  Two questions for you:

1.  What is driving most of the changes that the club seems to be undertaking?  Just from your writeup, it would seem that they've done 4-5 fairly significant changes, only 1 of which (the 5th) seems to have been for the better.

2.  What's up with that random sand bunker inside what I think is a very cool grass bunker on #1?  Is that original?  I've never seen anything like that.

CJ

[Andy Troeger]

Bart,
Thanks for the review--it looks like The Virginian has quite a few really good looking holes. I get the feeling from your comments that the homes and OB are probably more present in person than in the photos. It does look like there is enough width to make the housing issue a minimal one, but I'm sure it does change the atmosphere of playing the course to go from a secluded wildnerness to a backyard neighborhood one.

Is #10 controversial? It doesn't look great or awful from the one photo.

[Phil McDade]

Am I alone in thinking that a 20-30 yard patch of rough fronting this bunker is....what's the word I'm looking for? Silly? Dumb? Tragic?

What's the point of the rough? To keep ball out of the bunker? To negate the option of running the ball onto the green on what is a downhill shot? Maybe the conditioning there prohibits such thoughts...

[Tim Nugent]

When I was buildiing Green Bay Country Club, I had the same construction superintendent and most of the crew that just finished this course.  When I saw pictures, I asked him about the un-Fazioish bunker styling and he reported that Tom Marzof said they wanted to try something new.  One thing that's evident if look closely is how many bunkers were not 'sanded' and left as grass during construction.  You see this on many of the Fazio courses from that period (#18 fairway @ Greyhawk).  I feel that left as grass bunkers the shapes are too stark for the usually rolling topo Fazio likes to have. 
Phil M. I wouldn't be all that surprised if that wasn't once planned to be all bunker of a cluster of several.  Due to the slopes from the upper approach to the lower approach, I would guess that it was too steep for anything but rough.  Maybe they were worried that the bunker(s) would wash or that a 40 yd bunkers shot would be too taxing.  But, if this is indeed the angle of attack, I agree, as is it doesn't work very well.

[Phil McDade]

Tim:

Thanks for your thoughts. I like the bunker, just not the extended rough fronting it. Particularly with a downhill shot to a wide but shallow green (and what appears to be a steep falloff on the backside), one would think a player might consider running the ball on the green if uncertain with the distance of their approach irons, especially early in the round.

[Tim Nugent]

Phil, I guess that's what happens when you put a wide/shallow green on a severe cross-slope.  You have to make up the grade somehow and don't really have the ability to do much behind unless you want to rip up the area and move in alot of dirt.  Also, some kick-banks on the sides of the approaches would have been nice for the run-up option, you might even be able to get halfway close to a middle pin.

[Bart Bradley]

Tim and Phil:

I am enjoying the discussion.  Keep it up.  Here is another view of the same green from the middle of the fairway.  Dioes this change your opinion in any way?  One interesting aspect of this green is that the left half slopes away (front to back) and the right half slopes to the front!



Bart

[Phil McDade]

Bart/Tim:

I generally like these centerline, fronting bunkers (or mounds, or depressions) -- I think they help contribute to options on how to play holes, if well-done, and make golfers think, always a good thing in my book. Looking at it from the center angle (thanks!), I can see how the ground-approach option is somewhat discouraged by the contours of the green. I might also flatten/fill somewhat the sharply steeped run-in to the left side of the bunker. I think the hole approach could be improved if the bunker surrounds both tempted the player into a ground game approach, and led to mis-hits with such a tactic more easily finding the bunker.

[Bart Bradley]

Phil:

The Zoysia is very, very sticky; running shots are generally not the option anyway.  I know that some courses have been able to get their Zoysia to play firm and fast, but that is just not the case at The Virginian (never has been).  While I agree that the maintenance of the centerline bunker area could be better, for me it is a more a positive than a negative because of the options it presents and the obstacle it creates in the short game.

Bart

[Tommy Williamsen]

I played The Virginian in May.  I had not played it since the year it opened.  The houses did detract but the course is pretty solid.  Here is a picture of the rest of the house on 13.
It is embarassing.

[Sean_A]

Dr B

When seeing the course in person does it seem disjointed in any way?  Do all the elements of the course come together as a pleasing whole visually?

Thanks for the tour.  I never heard of this course before.

Ciao 

[Bart Bradley]

Tommy:

That house dominates the views of the back nine. 

Sean:

The Virginian is a pleasing place to spend some time.  The routing is a bit disjointed with long cart rides after holes 5 and 8.

I find the course "visually pleasing" but the housing distracts/detracts.

Bart

[Wade Whitehead]

I've played The Virginian a number of times dating to its first year, 1993.  I haven't visited in at least five years, however.  Encroachment (i.e. housing) has definitely made a difference in the visual appeal of the golf course, which was, and is, its greatest asset.  Most folks who play leave saying it's a gorgeous golf course (though that's certainly debatable in the brown-friendly context of this board).

The Virginian is truly a fun, member-friendly golf course to play.  Most holes are designed to funnel the ball towards the fairway and conditions are almost always fantastic.  Nearly every hole plays downhill from the tee box, as they're stacked into hillsides; though every hole isn't actually downhill, it feels that way by the end of the round.  Again, this doesn't earn points in the treehouse, but most players love it.

The bunker change on 5 certainly took away from that hole.  There were a couple of times that I ended up in the old bunker and wished I'd play the hole as a three shotter.  Now it seems imminently reachable (though I'm sure I'll eat those words the next time I visit).

Anyone who says 10 is the worst hole they've seen hasn't played the golf courses I have.  Playing from one hilltop to another is a typical solution in southwest Virginia; frankly, I've always been impressed that only one hole at The Virginian does so.

I grew up just half a mile from the golf course.  Perhaps my familiarity of the land (thanks to years of bike riding and hiking across it) and the view of my old elementary school down the valley from the range tee contribute to my affinity for the course.  In the end, it's a perfect example of a golf course that 99% of people (including me) would love to play every day but that members here would pick apart over time.

WW

[Bart Bradley]

WW:

I assume you mean the bunker change on 6  , not 5.

The USGA event lead to the changes on 5 to make the hole more dangerous and intersting.  The bigger deeper bunker stayed on 6 until after the tournament (although they played the hole from the forward tee as a par 4 anyway).

I am glad you chimed in with your local perspective.  Hope you enjoyed the photos.

Bart

[Brian Potash]

Bart,

was the sheriff tree on number 6 originally supposed to block out the left side of the fairway or was there some type of weather event that lead to this?

It looks like the tree/limb is right in front of the tees, making accessing the left part of the fairway almost impossible.

I am a lefty and with my draw (pull  ) almost half my bag would be taken out of my hand on the tee.


I play on a Fazio course where Marzof did most of the work so am curious if this was an original part of the design.

Thanks,

Brian

[Bart Bradley]

Brian: 

Pictures can be very deceiving...those are the very far forward tees... The "sheriff" is actually about 200 yds out off the blue tees and 225 yds  from the tips.

You would have plenty of room for your draw.

Bart

[Ed Oden]

Bart, do you know how much fairway shaping was done?  I like the holes with few bunkers.  They have a very classic look to them.  I also like the 12th green.  A shallow green with side by side tiers seems rare.  But I'm guessing it works very well on a short par 4.  I look forward to seeing the course one day.

Best wishes,

Ed

[Bart Bradley]

Bart, do you know how much fairway shaping was done?  I like the holes with few bunkers.  They have a very classic look to them.  I also like the 12th green.  A shallow green with side by side tiers seems rare.  But I'm guessing it works very well on a short par 4.  I look forward to seeing the course one day.

Best wishes,

Ed

Ed:

I don't know how much fairway shaping was done.  The course certainly exhibits the same natural landforms that exist everywhere else in E. Tenn and SW VA, so I suspect much of what is present was found.  I have always thought that The Virginian demonstrated some aspects of minimal earth moving, especially in the fairways. 

Your point about 12 is well taken.  Having substantially different hole locations seems to be particularly important for short par 4s, to create variety from one play to the next.

Bart

[Michael Huber]

I'm a sucker for down hill holes, and I hit a fade, so needless to say I'm a big fan of the looks of the fourth hole.  In particular, I like how the fairway just kind of lets the ball funnel into the middle of the fairway. 

Speaking of which, I wonder if the fourth fairway gets particularly soggy during rainfall?

[Bart Bradley]

Michael:

The fourth hole sets up perfectly for the power fade...It is a fun tee shot.

The course has always played soft:  clay soil and zoysia grass.  I will say that the club has made drainage a priority and has taken substantial steps to install drainage where needed.  The 4th hole plays about like the rest; there is a huge drain just off the right side of the fairway about 150 yds out.

The 4th is the number 1 handicap hole...the tee shot must be very well struck to find just the right spot to get the speed slot kick and otherwise for us mortals, the approach shot is long and generally not from a level stance.

All:

Although a number of holes do "funnel" balls back toward the fairway, missing into the rough generally yields a tough, uneven stance.  I must say that holes 5,6,9,11,14,16,17, and 18 do not funnel and in fact, the fairway is a plateau on holes 9, 11, 16, and 18.

Bart

[Brian Freeman]

What makes it NOT so great?

The course is basically unwalkable because of several routing choices.  At a recent high school match players had to be shuttled after holes 3, 5, and 8.  

I played a few tournaments here "way back" in the '90s, and let me assure you there were no shuttles between holes.  Lazy kids these days... 

I agree that the changes on 13 are tragic, that used to be a beautiful hole, and played really long back then.

Thanks for the pictorial.

[Bart Bradley]

HA!  Here is an old Scott Burroughs aerial of the day of the Virginian...

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,6071.0/



The aerial is very early Virginian with original bunker on 6, original configuration of 5 green complex and very few houses...boy do I miss those days.

Bart

[Wade Whitehead]

Bart:

Are there still boulders next to the 13th tee?  I remember walking through them and seeing that green setting for the first time.  It really was spectacular with nothing on the hill behind.

8 is truly one of the prettiest holes in Virginia.  The tee beside the barn (if it's still there) offers a wonderful look across the springwater to the green.

Another feature that hasn't been pointed out: Golf shop shelving and lockers were constructed using wood pulled during construction.  The hickory woodwork in the clubhouse represents some wonderful local craftmanship.  The stacked rock teeboxes and clubhouse chimney and fireplace add a mountain touch as well.

WW

[Sean_A]

Tommy:

That house dominates the views of the back nine.  

Sean:

The Virginian is a pleasing place to spend some time.  The routing is a bit disjointed with long cart rides after holes 5 and 8.

I find the course "visually pleasing" but the housing distracts/detracts.

Bart

Bart

Other than the obvious cart nature of the course to my eye the course looks very disjointed.  Much of the bunkering is either not to proper scale or not fitting their locations well.  Many of the bunkers are stranded in the rough and the one centreline bunker is marred by long grass.  I also dislike how so many of the fairways run only to the front of greens with a stark contrast on the wings and back ends of green to rough.  Its understandable why you sound luke warm about this course.

Ciao