The 'problem' with the Discussion Group

[Greg Tallman]

Random thought. Why not have a second board where anything goes. Maintain the DG as an architecture/design discussions only and the other board is everything else.

The fact is that you have brought together a group of people who enjoy chatting with each other. Why limit it to one topic? Just create another forum and call it "The 19th Hole" where folks chat about anything and everything if they wish.

The group you have bright together have other interests and quite frankly some of the peripheral discussions are far more enlghtening than 5 guys consuming half the world's bandwidth  arguing about Merion.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Bob

Great to see you able to get back on the golf course.   I do keep repeating myself on this point but carts are fine for those who need them for medical reasons, NEVER had a problem with that if it allows more to play golf.  As you know I am unable to walk distances  with or without a golf bag.

Pauls, no you are totally wrong it closes no case whatsoever, but clearly you have jumped in without reading my past posts on the subject. If only those that needed them used the cart then it would not be a problem for others or require special cart tracks due to the greatly reduced numbers.  I was at Moray GC the other week - their stock was 4 carts for those that requires assistance around the course.

Again please to see you are able to get out and about, but do not overdo it.

Best wishes

Melvyn  

[Jay Flemma]

Ran, two quick things...I'm here with the WSJ people (JP Newport and Steph Wei and Jeff Neumann)...who ever said that in the journal was close to right, but may have underestimated a bit.

They are doing an experiment here at the tournament giving out pedometers and having a contest each day and all week to determine who walks the most.  I won on Tuesday, walking about 17 miles.  The prize was a flag from the 18th at Hazeltine signed by Yang.

According to the contest, if you walk 10,000 steps you burn off 500-800 calories depending on your weight.  That's about 4 miles.  I don't have any idea how many cals a KK donut has, but we all should walk the course more, except of course in 95 degrees or more, where it would be totally rude to be the only one doing it, or if you have a medical reason like Bob, or age like my 86 y/o dad, who still plays w/ my 75 y/o mom.  It's clear whatever the amt of cals burned, you still have to eat sensibly and exercise a little more as well to stay healthy.

Also, thanks for the reminder.  I know sometimes I see something fun and want to share, but you're right, this isn't the place:)  I'll try to keep to interviews I do with architects or a great new place I may see from time to time.

It's nice to see you so active of late, and thank you for running GCA.  We are all better for it.

[Phil McDade]

Jay:

Great work covering the PGA...keep it up; looks like a fun day today!

[Martin Toal]

Looks like the Discussion Group is about to go more elitist.

One where those of you in the inner circle who have had the chance to play the great courses can all rabbit on about where the inspiration for the design came from, meanwhile the rest of us who have not been so lucky or well connected can just read the posts without making comment for fear of offending the elites with our philistine commentary.

Too bad, I liked it here.

[TEPaul]

Jeremy Glenn:

It was nice to see your post on here. It's been a long time for sure. Seeing your name reminds me of those good old days when things were shorter and to the point on most all threads. I doubt anyone would be for it now but it just occured to me about those good old days when things were shorter and more to the point and apparently better-----is that in those days back then there was no registration on this website----eg anyone on the INTERNET could post on this DG. Back then you could also delete your entire post at will back then. There were some problems with that as I recall but it never was like it is now.

Somebody said on a post above that a lot of the real quality people from the old days may've left because when you're on here long enough pretty much everything just starts rerunning over and over again. Even when some new good blood comes on they want to start out and probably need to start out where we all did in the beginning and it gets to be like a deja vu even though of course you certainly want to help them out and help them learn like what someone helped you with in your beginning.

Anyway, it's all probably hard to say and hard to determine. People like me and Pat and Ran have been talking about it on and off together for years and nothing real good seemed to develop to fix some of the inherent problems. It may just be the natural maturity of any website on a particular subject----after a while there is only so much to concentrate on and discuss with golf course architecture and so people who like to chat on here almost daily just begin to find other subjects to discuss----like OT subjects.

[James Boon]

Ran,

Firstly a very big thank you to you and Ben for this website, its discussion group and for allowing me to join. I’ve been on here now since spring 2008 and in that time I’ve learnt an awful lot. Hopefully my occasional posts have been informative and given an extra insight into golf over here in the UK? But I’ve also made many new friends and hope to make and meet many more, all who enjoy discussing a subject close to my own heart, golf courses, their history and design.
   
I also feel I should thank you for using such a wonderful word as nincompoop in your opening post!

Now to the crux of the matter:
“This web site is read in all the corners of the world where golf is played and we have an obligation to present our best foot forward. 99% of you understand and act like that and we thank you for making this the best web site in the world, bar none.”

So, if we are to make sure this website remains the wonderful and informative resource that lives up to this statement above, then I believe that we probably need more than to just ask people to keep to GCA related topics and to tidy up their grammar?

If we see this as a resource used by others, then we need more active moderation? I’m not suggesting that you or Ben needs to be on here every day, but surely we could have some junior moderators?

These extra moderators would allow for there to be various sub headings to the forum. This is the only DG or forum that I actively partake in, but there many others out there that all seem to have their threads under various sub headings? If GolfClubAtlas was to copy this, it would mean that similar threads could all be grouped together and would also mean it would be easier to find them in future (especially seeing as how tricky the current search engine can be at times)? Take for instance Photo Tour threads, something that many people say is a big bonus of the DG. Many actively partake in these discussions in an informative and interesting manner, and they very nicely compliment your “Course by Country” reviews. If we were to have a junior moderator or two that could make sure these threads are titled correctly and in the right sub heading, then people from “all the corners of the world” would have a much enhanced resource? And in the case of Photo Tour threads, we already have something similar:
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45478.0/
so why not bring something like this in house?

Other sub headings could be:
- Maintenance and greenkeeping
- Golf course construction
- Historical research   
- Travel (There is after all a Golf & Travel section to the main website, though I notice it has been removed from the main navigation tabs)
- Other GCA links and resources (perhaps a regular GCA related book review could be an interesting topic if someone had the time and inclination)
- OT (yes why not, if they are all kept in their own section)
And probably several others, but at some point in the future, these could all be reviewed and expanded or removed.

Another query? If OT threads are to be omitted, then I’m curious as to how far we take something to be OT?

We all know that Tigers private life is OT or discussions related to other sports, but I’d hate to see some of the discussions on travel advice, book suggestions, recent events on the pro tour, even the architecture of clubhouses, all of which aren’t specifically GCA related but can be very interesting and not far off the mark.

Ran, I am hesitant in posting this response, but I hope my suggestions are taken as they are meant, which is well meaning and in no way a criticism of the way this place is currently being run. And I hope that one day I will have the opportunity to meet you in person, and thank you for this great website!

Cheers,

James

[Dan Herrmann]

James,
Amen - here's the URL or the Off Topic section of a favorite website:  http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

Here you can see the section devoted to OT topics.  Essentially everything goes as long as it's not political or demeaning to a person or to people (obviously no racism or sexism).  Obviously, an OT forum here would need to be related to golf, but not necessarily GCA. 

I think that just the creation of an OT forum here would do wonders.  And this OT forum could have its threads purged every 45 days or so.  And I'd limit the people that could read OT threads to members of the treehouse to prevent any grandstanding.

Or not

[James Boon]

Dan,

I like the idea of the OT section being for members only. That way, as Marty suggested much earlier it can be like the 19th hole for a whole bunch of like minded guys, but the quality of GolfClubAtlas.com as an informative resource to everyone including none participants is maintained at a high level.

Cheers,

James

[Jeff Dawson]

Isn't this thread OT......   Just saying.....

[JC Jones]

Isn't this thread OT......   Just saying.....

Finally, someone with some sense.

[John Moore II]

I would like to see less O/T threads; I likely participate in them far too often. I do feel though that this place is a great resource for those interested in golf course design and construction. I have learned an incredible amount from this place and being here. Hopefully I'm not one of those sitting on the ejection seat with anyone else's hand on the switch...

[Melvyn Morrow]

John

5,4,3,2....................

[Jay Flemma]

Jay:

Great work covering the PGA...keep it up; looks like a fun day today!

thank you Phil, I didn't write about architecture the last couple of days, but I'm really having fun and feeling good about my work product over at Cybergolf.  Thanks for reaching out.  I hope you like the one I wrote last night that just went up, and the caddie story.  As for my interviews with S.Y. Noh and Wen-chong Liang...I think I need a new translator because they went nowhere:)

http://www.cybergolf.com/golf_news/fog_delays_make_potpourri_out_of_pga_championship_leaderboard

[Jed Peters]

Melvyn,

Yesterday, I played golf for the first time since I had some unpleasantness occur in early May. I played the Senior Ladies tees at 5400 yards, although I did go to the back markers on the Dunes 14th hole, the one along the ocean. The pin was at about 175 yards and I busted a driver some thirty yards short and bogeyed the hole. I was ecstatic.

I could not have experienced such happiness had I not used a cart.


Bob

Bob,

You should be playing those markers all the time.

Your pal,

Jed

Ran:

Thank you for your informative and guiding post.

Being one who tries to adhere to all things beard-pulling related, I really like what you're trying to emphasize.

Jed

[Patrick_Mucci]

I've never started an OT thread.

Almost never - none of us are perfect.  But your batting average is VERY high! 

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35074.0/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23579.0/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,7743.0/

You'd have to be a moron if you don't see the connection to golf and/or GCA.

As to the NORAD post, I was asked by many, via email and IM, including Ran, to cite the Santa tracking site.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Ran I have to say Pat wasn't someone who immediately sprang to mind, but are you happy with your name on a site that allows posters to call other posters names like "moron"?  Do you hope your kids wil one day take an interest in this site and will you put an age limit on that?



As I said in an earlier post people are choosing not to join because of the low standards of courtesy on here.


As I say it's all entirely up to you, but I'm not happy with it and I can make my choice too.  

[John Mayhugh]

I've never started an OT thread.

Almost never - none of us are perfect.  But your batting average is VERY high! 

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35074.0/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23579.0/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,7743.0/

You'd have to be a moron if you don't see the connection to golf and/or GCA.

As to the NORAD post, I was asked by many, via email and IM, including Ran, to cite the Santa tracking site.

Mr. Mucci,
Please lighten up.  I was only trying to joke around and insulting me for it is beneath you.  I'm really disappointed by your reaction.  You probably introduce more quality topics than anyone else, but you're not infallible.

Given that I am a moron (at least in your opinion), please explain the connection between a Happy Fathers Day message and discussion of golf course architecture.  As I understand it, merely discussing golf would not be on topic. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ran I have to say Pat wasn't someone who immediately sprang to mind, but are you happy with your name on a site that allows posters to call other posters names like "moron"?  Do you hope your kids wil one day take an interest in this site and will you put an age limit on that?


Tony,

Get a life.

I said, "you'd have to be a moron if you didn't see the connection".

If you took offense because you didn't see the connection and felt that you were now in the moron category, that's your fault.

As I said in an earlier post people are choosing not to join because of the low standards of courtesy on here.

What hard evidence do you have, from people who chose not to join, to support the above statement ?

Have you taken a poll of everyone who has chosen not to join ?


As I say it's all entirely up to you, but I'm not happy with it and I can make my choice too.  

Oh Gee, you're unhappy, what shall we do ?
What kind of childish threat is that ?.
Make your choice.......resign

[Jon Heise]

I've never started an OT thread.

Almost never - none of us are perfect.  But your batting average is VERY high! 

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35074.0/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23579.0/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,7743.0/

You'd have to be a moron if you don't see the connection to golf and/or GCA.

As to the NORAD post, I was asked by many, via email and IM, including Ran, to cite the Santa tracking site.

Mr. Mucci,
Please lighten up.  I was only trying to joke around and insulting me for it is beneath you.  I'm really disappointed by your reaction.  You probably introduce more quality topics than anyone else, but you're not infallible.

Given that I am a moron (at least in your opinion), please explain the connection between a Happy Fathers Day message and discussion of golf course architecture.  As I understand it, merely discussing golf would not be on topic. 

Cool, we even get some sassyness in this thread!


Anyway, I'd love to see an OT forum here.  Sure, we could go to other sites to talk about that kind of stuff.  I do that actually.  Thing is, I'd like to be able to have those kind of OT topics where I can converse with my GCA friends and acquaintences.  Sites like GolfWRX are great, but it's a vastly different crowd. 

[Jonathan Cummings]

Maybe 1500 is about 1300 too many?  JC

[Patrick_Mucci]

I've never started an OT thread.

Almost never - none of us are perfect.  But your batting average is VERY high!  

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35074.0/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23579.0/
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,7743.0/

You'd have to be a moron if you don't see the connection to golf and/or GCA.

As to the NORAD post, I was asked by many, via email and IM, including Ran, to cite the Santa tracking site.

Mr. Mucci,
Please lighten up.  I was only trying to joke around and insulting me for it is beneath you.  
I'm really disappointed by your reaction.  
You probably introduce more quality topics than anyone else, but you're not infallible.

John, how can you post that those three threads have nothing to do with golf ?
Did you bother to read them ?
I'm really disappointed by your citation.
It's ruined my day.
Maybe my evening too.
I'll never be the same

Given that I am a moron (at least in your opinion),

Selection to the "moron" category is by self appointment, not by my determination

please explain the connection between a Happy Fathers Day message and discussion of golf course architecture.  
As I understand it, merely discussing golf would not be on topic.  

John,

I can see why you chose to put yourself into the moron category.
Didn't you read the entire Father's Day message.
The part about the U.S. Open ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ran I have to say Pat wasn't someone who immediately sprang to mind, but are you happy with your name on a site that allows posters to call other posters names like "moron"?  Do you hope your kids wil one day take an interest in this site and will you put an age limit on that?

As I said in an earlier post people are choosing not to join because of the low standards of courtesy on here.

As I say it's all entirely up to you, but I'm not happy with it and I can make my choice too.  

Tony,

In the last twenty two (22) pages of this website, have you created any new threads ?

What ?  Not one ?

So, you don't contribute very much in the way of introducing new topics, but, you want  to threaten Ran to make a choice between you or me ?

Good luck.

[Ben Sims]

Mr. Mucci,

Why are you yelling? I'm sitting here watching many of the contenders falter on the clown nose of miniature golf that is Whistling Straits and it strikes me that your angst today would be better served in that direction.

I don't consider myself a moron and John Mayhugh certainly is no moron.  I reread the posts that he hyperlinked and I found arguable golf architectural merit to the second two and zero architectural merit to the first one linked.  This isn't an attack, on the contrary.  It is merely a an attempt to ask you to explain the architectural merit of those threads without name calling or assessing that its obviousness absolves you from discussion.  To be sure, I have no ax to grind with you and I enjoy your posts on this website.  I wanted that to be written before you got upset.  

As an aside, I would like to formally apologize for PM'ing you a few months back asking for information on NGLA.  I find your passion for the golf course to be infectious and between you and George Bahto, the information is endless.  It wasn't until now that I look at how I approached gathering information and even access to golf courses as uninformed and ignorant at times.  I have tried to change how I approach this website and the members of it.  It wasn't until a few good friends on this website clued me in to how I was presenting myself that I saw the err of my ways.  I--like dozens on this website--weren't brought up to understand the unwritten intricacies of private golf clubs.  It is through sheer want of an education in golf architecture and turf management that I want to see great golf courses.  I am sure that there are some that are trophy hunters.  But for every one of them on this website--in my experience--there are five that only wish to se the course and understand why it is great.

[John Mayhugh]

Mr. Mucci,
Selective reading comprehension is at work.

Each of the threads that I linked to are off-topic when the topic is golf course architecture. That is all that I asserted.  Of course they each have something to do with golf, but merely discussing golf is not supposed to be the purpose of the discussion group, is it?  If discussion of topics related to golf is on-topic, I'll be surprised if Ran is able to remove 32 pages of threads.

Since you seem to have overlooked my question, please explain what a Happy Father's Day message has to do with golf course architecture.