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Brandon Skopelja

The Old White
« on: July 28, 2010, 04:53:21 PM »
Figured I would post some of my pics to check out before the tourney starts.

Opening Tee Shot


#1 Approach



#1 Green




#2 Tee Shot



#2 Fairway- I really thought the hogsback/spine was a cool feature!



#2 Green
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 04:55:28 PM by Brandon Skopelja »

Brandon Skopelja

Re: The Old White
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2010, 04:58:48 PM »
#3 Tee Shot- Really cool hole. I paced the green at 70yds deep.



#3 Green



#4 Tee Shot


#4 Approach


#4 Green

« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 05:01:50 PM by Brandon Skopelja »

Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2010, 04:59:09 PM »
Nice Brandon.  I'm looking forward to seeing this on HDTV.

Brandon Skopelja

Re: The Old White
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2010, 05:04:40 PM »
#5 Tee Shot


#5 Approach



#5 Green



Brandon Skopelja

Re: The Old White
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 05:08:34 PM »
#6 Tee Shot


#6 Approach





#6 Green



Brandon Skopelja

Re: The Old White
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 05:11:00 PM »
#7 Tee




#7 Approach


#7 Green


Brandon Skopelja

Re: The Old White
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2010, 05:12:40 PM »
#8 The Redan







Brandon Skopelja

Re: The Old White
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2010, 05:15:57 PM »
#9 Tee shot


#9 Fairway





I will try to post the back nine tonight or tomorrow.  Looking forward to seeing how the pros play it.

Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2010, 05:24:43 PM »
Brandon,

How long is the 5th hole?  Wondering what kind of club one hits into the green and how much the mound affects the approach.  It is reminicient of a famous mound guarding the left portion of a green.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2010, 07:57:37 PM »
Brandon,

How long is the 5th hole?  Wondering what kind of club one hits into the green and how much the mound affects the approach.  It is reminicient of a famous mound guarding the left portion of a green.

Used to play about 350 - long iron and a sand wedge. Back left placement is cute but other than that not much there.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2010, 08:08:44 PM »
The conical mounds in front of the Redan bunker are pretty heinous.  Wonder why they weren't removed years ago........

I love antiquities that are fun to play but those are way out of character to me.

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2010, 08:18:36 PM »
The conical mounds in front of the Redan bunker are pretty heinous.  Wonder why they weren't removed years ago........

I love antiquities that are fun to play but those are way out of character to me.

My thoughts as well.  They seem to detract from the otherwise menacing front left bunker.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2010, 09:03:42 PM »
The conical mounds in front of the Redan bunker are pretty heinous.  Wonder why they weren't removed years ago........

I love antiquities that are fun to play but those are way out of character to me.

My thoughts as well.  They seem to detract from the otherwise menacing front left bunker.

Mark

You guys don't care for 'em?  Aw man, I'm a big fan, personally.  I believe they are called "dragon's teeth" by Lester.  You see them guarding the 5th green as well as the 8th, and I believe there may be a few of them down the 17th fairway now, though I could be wrong.  I don't mind them since the whole Macdonald/Raynor style is quite manufactured.  The ones on the 8th almost hide that front bunker, providing not one but two levels of deception and trouble on that side.  I dig it, but I can see how others might not.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2010, 09:17:07 PM »
Thanks for the pics. I haven't been there in about ten years and hardly recognize any of it. Did they do some major tree clearing? Thought I remembered #1 fairway as being a tunnel. Didn't remember the Redan as having the chocolate drop mounds, which I think are very cool and work well if you didn't have the proper terrain to put it in, or modern construction equipment to move more land.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2010, 10:10:04 PM »
Question.  How does the routing (the holes) of the Old White today compare to (1) the original and (2) the 1950s version?  Is it the same.  Years ago I think I read that holes from the Greenbrier course and the Old White had been exchanged over time.  Maybe it's my imagination.  Can anyone answer this?  (As a teen, I "played" both the Old White and the Greenbrier in the 1950s but have no recollection of either, except for excellent conditioning and the tee on No. 1 at the Old White (as it was then).)

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2010, 09:24:01 AM »
The conical mounds in front of the Redan bunker are pretty heinous.  Wonder why they weren't removed years ago........

I love antiquities that are fun to play but those are way out of character to me.

They were not removed because they were added by Lester. At least I do not remember them being so profound when I first started playing there in 1989. With that said, I love them. As stated before, Lester has done a terrific job here.

#5 used to be very plain, but Lester went in and added the mounds and gave the hole some character. I think some of the ap[proach shots from Brandon will not be the same as what the pros will see either. The green on #2 is a beast. It will take a precise shot there to get close.
Mr Hurricane

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2010, 09:39:51 AM »
The conical mounds in front of the Redan bunker are pretty heinous.  Wonder why they weren't removed years ago........

I love antiquities that are fun to play but those are way out of character to me.

My thoughts as well.  They seem to detract from the otherwise menacing front left bunker.

Mark

You guys don't care for 'em?  Aw man, I'm a big fan, personally.  I believe they are called "dragon's teeth" by Lester.  You see them guarding the 5th green as well as the 8th, and I believe there may be a few of them down the 17th fairway now, though I could be wrong.  I don't mind them since the whole Macdonald/Raynor style is quite manufactured.  The ones on the 8th almost hide that front bunker, providing not one but two levels of deception and trouble on that side.  I dig it, but I can see how others might not.

I don't think those artificial cones were seen on Macdonald-Raynor courses. I think they harken back to the geometric features of golf before the turn of the 20th Century.  I'd love to know if Lester restored them or added them.  Lester?   ;D

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2010, 10:00:41 AM »
Brandon,
   Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures. I was thinking of heading up this weekend to check out the course and this just might clinch it. Definitely worth taking a look when I get up that way.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2010, 10:02:58 AM »
Thanks for posting these--they bring back good memories.

I don't think there's a prettier opening tee shot,especially in the fall.

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2010, 11:51:47 AM »
The conical mounds in front of the Redan bunker are pretty heinous.  Wonder why they weren't removed years ago........

I love antiquities that are fun to play but those are way out of character to me.

My thoughts as well.  They seem to detract from the otherwise menacing front left bunker.

Mark

You guys don't care for 'em?  Aw man, I'm a big fan, personally.  I believe they are called "dragon's teeth" by Lester.  You see them guarding the 5th green as well as the 8th, and I believe there may be a few of them down the 17th fairway now, though I could be wrong.  I don't mind them since the whole Macdonald/Raynor style is quite manufactured.  The ones on the 8th almost hide that front bunker, providing not one but two levels of deception and trouble on that side.  I dig it, but I can see how others might not.

I don't think those artificial cones were seen on Macdonald-Raynor courses. I think they harken back to the geometric features of golf before the turn of the 20th Century.  I'd love to know if Lester restored them or added them.  Lester?   ;D

I asked this very question in a thread last year and Lester replied that these were restored features... http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40889.msg876353/

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2010, 11:59:41 AM »
The conical mounds in front of the Redan bunker are pretty heinous.  Wonder why they weren't removed years ago........

I love antiquities that are fun to play but those are way out of character to me.

My thoughts as well.  They seem to detract from the otherwise menacing front left bunker.

Mark

You guys don't care for 'em?  Aw man, I'm a big fan, personally.  I believe they are called "dragon's teeth" by Lester.  You see them guarding the 5th green as well as the 8th, and I believe there may be a few of them down the 17th fairway now, though I could be wrong.  I don't mind them since the whole Macdonald/Raynor style is quite manufactured.  The ones on the 8th almost hide that front bunker, providing not one but two levels of deception and trouble on that side.  I dig it, but I can see how others might not.

I don't think those artificial cones were seen on Macdonald-Raynor courses. I think they harken back to the geometric features of golf before the turn of the 20th Century.  I'd love to know if Lester restored them or added them.  Lester?   ;D

I asked this very question in a thread last year and Lester replied that these were restored features... http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40889.msg876353/

Oh well, I still think they look goofy!   ;D

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2010, 02:17:13 PM »
A great looking course! However, I could see some improvement with a chainsaw in spots! I like the Dragon's teeth too BTW.
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The Old White
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2010, 03:30:39 PM »
I was shocked on my one visit how many trees they had planted in the middle of the course, many of which block the views of the spectacular hillsides which surround the course.  But, I don't think management was that in tune with my recommendation to cut them down!

I saw the course a year or two before Lester's work and I do not think that any of the mounds on #5 or #8 were there at the time.

TEPaul

Re: The Old White
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2010, 06:56:00 PM »
I'm pretty sure Lester added the conical mounds on #5 and #8. I think it was Mr. Justice's idea to put more of them on #17.

As far as how the routing or whatever has changed from the original course of Macdonald/Raynor, I think it's pretty much the same but I'd have to check. I think they worked off an old aerial even if I think they were somewhat unsure if some changes had been made between the original course and that aerial. Off the top of my head the only green I can think of right now that was originally in another place was #1 with the green to the right of where it is now.

The Biarritz (#3) is an interesting one to me because the swale is much longer than most biarritz swale I'm aware of other than perhaps the original biarritz at The Lido. All three sections, the front section, the swale and the back section are all app 23 yards long (app 70 feet). This will have the affect of making it harder to get to the back section from the tee and stop the ball on it.

To me one of the really neat things about that course now is what I call some of the "top lines" of a number of the fairway bunkers----eg a number of them tend to visually hide what's beyond them which is pretty cool in a visual deception sense. Of course, it really won't matter much to these pros since they pretty much work off of yardages for everything including all carry yardage and yardages to reach fairway bunkers and such----but it is a neat look to me visually.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 07:01:04 PM by TEPaul »

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Old White
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2010, 07:24:30 PM »
Carl: "How does the routing (the holes) of the Old White today compare to (1) the original and (2) the 1950s version?  "

the routing is the same as was originally built
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

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