[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

I'm heading up to Wisconsin at the end of the month for a Golfweek magazine event at Kohler and will be playing the Straits Course.  What feedback can you give me when compared to The Ocean Course here on Kiawah...

[Brent Hutto]

A friend of mine, a good player, has played both under tournament conditions. He considers Whistling Straits to be as intimidating a driving course as there is anywhere. The Ocean Course he found tough overall, especially in serious wind, but not quite as scary a proposition.

[Tony Weiler]

Both sound scary.  I need to play them.   

[Anthony Gray]

  More elevation change. More water views. Greens have more slope. Less aligators. Fast and firmer. Easier angles with tee ball. More difficult pin positions.

[Doug Spets]

Make sure you ask for Lambeau Ron to caddy for you.  A real pro.

[Rob_Waldron]

Mike

The drives at The Straits may appear more intimidating however there is plenty of room to drive the ball. The Ocean Course is far more punishing than the Straits. After playing the OC I felt like I had been through a 15 round fight. After playing the Straits I wanted to go right back out with the knowledge of where to hit the ball.
Enjoy!

[Tim Bert]

Fast and firmer.

Don't go scaring me like that!  I actually want to play at Kiawah...

Either times have changed at Straits or Ocean is kept slow and mushy if this statement is true.  When I played Straits, balls were spinning back on greens, shots played under the wind were holding up in the grass before the greens. Firm and fast was not even in the picture.

[Brent Hutto]

I've played the Ocean Course three times. Once in cold, steady rain. Once the next morning immediately after a hard freeze the night before. And once in beautiful, breezy and clear conditions. It has been almost equally firm-n-fast all three times. Not nearly as firm as, say, Brora or Royal Dornoch but plenty firm and fast enough by South Carolina standards anyway.

[Anthony Gray]

Fast and firmer.

Don't go scaring me like that!  I actually want to play at Kiawah...

Either times have changed at Straits or Ocean is kept slow and mushy if this statement is true.  When I played Straits, balls were spinning back on greens, shots played under the wind were holding up in the grass before the greens. Firm and fast was not even in the picture.

  Not exactly Scotland,but the ball rolls more and you can bounce them in at WS more. I think No 8 at WS is a good example.


  Anthony

[Brent Hutto]

Bouncing the ball onto the greens at the Ocean Course is a bit like doing it at Dornoch. Some holes it works brilliantly, others it just ain't gonna happen.

[PCCraig]

Mike-

They are very similar both very different at the same time. At WS the main body of water (Lake Michigan) comes into play. I would second that it doesn't quite play like a links course as it's never quite F&F (although never "mushy" IMO) and every time I've been there wind was actually not much of a factor while at Kiawah has been F&F and always pretty windy.

I would say that perhaps WS is a little more visually intimidating off the tee...

[jonathan_becker]

I've played both, but when I played WS it was in 2004 before the PGA and the maximum fairway width was 22 yards wide.  Whistling was letting the grass grow in for the PGA to shape it as they pleased.  Also, it was soaking wet with no roll and I played the back tees. 

Factoring all this, from my experience, I think that Kiawah is harder on a normal day from the 6800 tees.  Kiawah had much wider fairways than what I saw at WS, but the wind and short game challenge at Kiawah are much more to contend with. 

Mike, you're coming from Kiawah....not much is going to be tougher than that!!

[Brent Hutto]

A friend of mine, a good player, has played both under tournament conditions. He considers Whistling Straits to be as intimidating a driving course as there is anywhere. The Ocean Course he found tough overall, especially in serious wind, but not quite as scary a proposition.

I should clarify my comments to say that my friend, like others here, was talking about the visual intimidation factor of the tee shots at the Straits. If I recall correctly he actually scored a bit better there than at Kiawah so I don't think he found the tee shots particularly penal but apparently the first couple times you see the course you really have to focus your concentration not to be distracted by the visual elements.

[Anthony Gray]

Bouncing the ball onto the greens at the Ocean Course is a bit like doing it at Dornoch. Some holes it works brilliantly, others it just ain't gonna happen.

  Another reason why Cruden Bay is better.

  Anthony

[Patrick Hodgdon]

I'm heading up to Wisconsin at the end of the month for a Golfweek magazine event at Kohler and will be playing the Straits Course.  What feedback can you give me when compared to The Ocean Course here on Kiawah...

Ask for one of the guys who caddies at Calusa Pines in the winter and make sure to tip big!

[PThomas]

most difficult courses i've played:

1. Ocean Course
2. Straits course

good luck Tony!

[Carl Nichols]

.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

I'm playing June 29th...

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Bouncing the ball onto the greens at the Ocean Course is a bit like doing it at Dornoch. Some holes it works brilliantly, others it just ain't gonna happen.

Brent--

If you notice, most of the holes where you approach with a short iron don' t allow you to bounce the ball in.  Those where you'd be normally using a mid to long-iron allow players to bounce the ball in.  Examples No. 3 with the table-top green or most of the par 5s vs. No. 4, No. 9, No. 12, No. 13, where you can bounce the ball in...

[Carl Nichols]

I'm playing June 29th...

Enjoy.

[Phil McDade]

Bouncing the ball onto the greens at the Ocean Course is a bit like doing it at Dornoch. Some holes it works brilliantly, others it just ain't gonna happen.

Brent--

If you notice, most of the holes where you approach with a short iron don' t allow you to bounce the ball in.   Those where you'd be normally using a mid to long-iron allow players to bounce the ball in.  Examples No. 3 with the table-top green or most of the par 5s vs. No. 4, No. 9, No. 12, No. 13, where you can bounce the ball in...

Speaking of bouncing the ball in, one of the more persistent criticisms of the Straits when it first hosted the PGA was that the turf grass used from @ 50 yards into the greens was not of a type that allowed such shots. i.e., instead of promoting a running or bouncing shot in, the turf grabbed the ball, and thus players were forced to play a largely aerial approach into the greens at the Straits. Anyone play the course lately to comment on whether this is still the case? (Given that the Straits attempts to replicate playing conditions on a traditional links course, the players were quite critical of this aspect of the course, moreso it seemed than the design of the course.)

[RJ_Daley]

Forget Lambeau Ron, I just talked to him today and he isn't caddying there this summer.  He has a bag on the Canadian tour for the time being.  I think he isn't looking to work too much this summer, just enjoy the golf.

My limitted take on Straits VS Ocean, is that Straits is harder by a considerable degree.  Just my opinion based on one play Ocean, 2 at Straits. 

Some folks at our course said today that YE Yang played Straits at a media day preview or something a few days ago and shot 77. 

I'm not sure on the turf species or cultivar or what percent is what anymore regarding overwatering approaches and whatever.  Maybe someone from Kingsley Club can as Lucas if he is still being consulted by Straits about fescue and what the status of that maintenance is.

[JR Potts]

Speaking of bouncing the ball in, one of the more persistent criticisms of the Straits when it first hosted the PGA was that the turf grass used from @ 50 yards into the greens was not of a type that allowed such shots. i.e., instead of promoting a running or bouncing shot in, the turf grabbed the ball, and thus players were forced to play a largely aerial approach into the greens at the Straits. Anyone play the course lately to comment on whether this is still the case? (Given that the Straits attempts to replicate playing conditions on a traditional links course, the players were quite critical of this aspect of the course, moreso it seemed than the design of the course.)

This was quite a problem there.  I played there last September and this problem is now resolved.  The lean fescue has been replace by firm bent I believe.  It is quite playable now.

[Phil McDade]

Ryan:

Thanks -- that's good to hear. Now we just need some of that Lake Michigan wind in August.

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