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Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
This space reserved for the return of my series of photo tours that allow for group discussion on a hole by hole basis.  Due to the number of participants I expect to play this course in the next month or so we will be taking this at a nice relaxed pace to allow for some discussion on each hole.    

Coming in June to a discussion forum near you.  See you soon!  
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 11:13:18 PM by Tim Bert »

Mike Demetriou

Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2010, 01:47:10 PM »
There is little better than a Tim Bert photo tribute.

Giddy with anticipation.

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2010, 11:57:16 PM »
Hole #1 - par 4 - Double Plateau
Back tee - 341 yards
Middle tee - 304 yards

As you walk to the first tee, you probably notice two things right off the bat.  First, the playing field feels extremely wide open (because it is).  Second, as you glance to your right and take in the view of the 18th green you get a sense for the challenge that awaits over the course of the next several hours.  While you can only see 3 holes from the first tee (possibly four if you really strain for a view of 17) it feels like there's enough room on this side of the ridge to fit an entire nine holes.

The first tee shot provides generous width in the fairway and even more room beyond that as the rough is not imposing.  It is very easy to stand on this tee, not be too nervous (even with a group of twenty or so people, including the owner, the design team, and a camera crew), and get your game off to a good start.  There's plenty of room to spray the ball, though once you've played the hole once and experienced the green you will quickly realize that wild tee shots won't cost you a lost ball or a triple bogey but they will certainly cost you the opportunity at the ideal approach, which will be critical.

If the bunker guarding the front of the green, and obscuring some of the view of the wild contours, is not a principal's nose bunker, then I suppose I don't really know what one is.  The large mound certainly gives the impression that you are staring up a giant nose, with two sandy pit bunkers playing the role of the nostrils.

Double Plateau adequately describes the green.  The green is a wonderful introduction to what the golfer will face throughout the day...  greens that are large enough to allow average golfers to hit more than their fair share of greens in regulations, yet fierce enough that some situations will leave the golfer satisfied with a three-putt.  Hitting greens is not sufficient to scoring here.  Position is extremely important.

A view from the tee


Zoomed in a little closer


A look from the fairway.  The bunker on the right was in play from the tee for our group on this day.  The greenside bunker seen on the left of this photo would be in play for longer hitters on a downwind day.


Another view of the approach, closer to the green


A look from the left of the fairway


Standing on the front of the green.  The pin is on the left plateau.


From just behind the right plateau, looking back across the green


Is that a hidden bunker?  Well, yes, I think it might be.


I hope you will all enjoy taking this tour at a leisurely pace.  I am in a busy period at work and also have some travel in the not to distant future, so I will be taking my time between each hole.  Please feel free to post additional pictures of the hole if you have any different vantage points, and, as always, please discuss!



 




Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2010, 01:17:07 AM »
I was surprised to learn that the back right plateau is currently off limits for hole locations per Mr. Keiser.

Surely it is a half shot harder with the hole cut back there ... same with the front left, if not more.  But I hit all kinds of putts back onto the plateau from over and right of the green, seems like most people could make 5 to that hole pretty reasonably.

I am curious about this hole when it comes to the winter winds, whether players will be trying to drive the green.

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2010, 01:24:14 AM »
Interesting comment about the right plateau. Are they at least putting the hole near the base of that plateau so it becomes a factor?  We had a mild winter wind on Opening Day, didn't we?  I know it was the reverse of the normal summer wind at least a couple of the days I was there and I'm pretty sure June 1 was one of them because I remember 4, 10, and 17 all playing dreadfully long into the wind. I would think that the longer hitters are certainly going to try to put it right in front of the green when the wind is helping. 

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2010, 01:26:14 AM »
Tom,

Didn't we have a winter wind on opening day? I remember the Sahara and Hogsback were real brutes while Double Plateau left a short pitch (even playing with persimmon) as did Leven.

Tim,

Good man - bringin' back some memories - I love it.

I thought Double Plateau was one of the best introductions to a course that I have ever played. Certainly a handshake off the tee but definitely some challenge around the large green (especially if you go over the back and need to get up and down for par).

As you said - a perfect introduction to what the golfer can expect during the round.

My favorite opening hole on the property. Absolutely majestic standing on the tee - again - per your description. Brilliant.

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2010, 01:30:49 AM »
Handshake off the tee? Let it be known that the very first official tee shot from this hole did not even come close to hitting the fairway... :)

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2010, 01:45:08 AM »
Tim Bert at it again ...  ;D

Why does the double plateau as a concept green make me think of this?  Oh wait ... that's a Maiden Green  ::) .

“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2010, 01:55:44 AM »
Handshake off the tee? Let it be known that the very first official tee shot from this hole did not even come close to hitting the fairway... :)

Umm, that would be a case of "user error" - No? If you cannot find a way to hit the fairways at OM, at least on a fairly regular basis, then you have other problems.

Pretty sure the scariest thing I saw on opening day was the use of a log wedge from no more than 5 paces off the green - on almost every hole! Despite the fact that it was not working and the other people using putters and 7 irons seemed to be fairing a lot better.

Most amusing opening day comment - "It's weird, I'm not getting any backspin on these greens."

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2010, 06:38:59 AM »
As an interlude before continuation for those of us still in the learning stage, the term "double plateau" references two plateaus on the green, or two plateaus on the hole (fairway first, green second)?  Thanks for the explanation.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Andy Gray

Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2010, 06:49:29 AM »
I agree about the handshake off the tee. In my four rounds there I hit the fairway four times, but only made par once! The green is a great challenge if you don't think about the approach.

On opening day with the breeze in our backs, my drive was not far short of the principal's nose (look out for it on the documentary!), so I personally would go for the green with a stronger breeze behind, now that I know the hole a little bit better. But what an awesome green, along with the view of the 18th, to introduce the player to this course.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2010, 08:00:55 AM »
As an interlude before continuation for those of us still in the learning stage, the term "double plateau" references two plateaus on the green, or two plateaus on the hole (fairway first, green second)?  Thanks for the explanation.

Two distinct plateaus on the green.

It's the perfect kind of green to start the course off with.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2010, 08:06:44 AM »

Two distinct plateaus on the green.

It's the perfect kind of green to start the course off with.

Why?
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2010, 08:20:49 AM »
JC:

I thought it was the ideal green to start off with because we could make the tee shot relatively easy and you'd still be left with some work to do.   Plus, someone familiar with Macdonald or Raynor might not see what is the inspiration for the hole when they stand on the tee, but as soon as they walk up to the green, they will know.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2010, 09:11:46 AM »

Two distinct plateaus on the green.

It's the perfect kind of green to start the course off with.

Why?

A hole with this type of green makes clear that Old Macdonald is likely much different from what the player is used to.  It's easy to hit the green, but if the hole is located on one of the plateaus, you will still have a challenge to make par.  The importance of approaching from the proper angle should also be obvious.  It's especially interesting to think of longer players hitting their tee shots close to the green then making four or five because they cannot place a pitch onto one of the plateaus.  You're eased into the round with an easy tee shot, but the green gives you a solid indication of what to expect for the rest of the round.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2010, 09:28:35 AM »
Really nice golf hole.

From inside the caddie shack, the word is that the hole is a bit longer than the stated 341 from the black tees.  They are telling my friend it's 341 yards to the front of the green.

From the black tees, the carry over the big fairway bunker is about 215, but it's a very long 215.  I don't think I can carry it on a calm day.  If you can carry the bunker, you can better see what you're doing on the second shot.

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2010, 09:34:23 AM »
KBM - I just started last night you probably noticed the date from my original post where I reserve the real estate several months ago but the 1st hole pics and comments went up just before midnight last night. I'll move on to Eden when we've exhausted the interest in #1 but I usually give my threads a couple days minimum between holes to see if anyone wants to post additional pics or comments on the hole.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2010, 09:35:49 AM »
I hope Tim is continuing this series soon. Macdonald/Raynor greens are fantastic and deserve this type of interpretation that has occured at Bandon. Carry on! Incidently in reference to another thread I think Old Mac and its creators should be regarded as an "original creation" rather than as a "copy" due to the amount of creative energy that must be invested. At some point maybe the name of the course should be changed so that proper credit can be given to what was done by Doak and team and we can leave behind the silliness that will dog this course because of the original hype about Old Macdonald.

Perhaps "Old DoakUrbinaBahtoKlein?".  ;D

(I apologize for leaving someone out if I did!)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 09:38:39 AM by Bill_McBride »

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2010, 09:41:26 AM »
"The famous first hole at Old Bahtoklein"

JC Urbina

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 09:54:05 AM »
Tim,

I have debated since the end of last year if I should do a " Anatomy of a golf hole" on each hole hole with sketches and written text. 

Your coverage of each hole and how it played has a general interest among some loyalists.  I am wandering if somebody would like to know how each hole evolved and certain trials and tribulations played out?

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2010, 09:59:31 AM »
 Jim,

  Sorry not interested in that kind of architectural analysis ;D would rather hear who designed Podunk CC.
AKA Mayday

Thomas Patterson

Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2010, 10:10:08 AM »
Thanks for this tour Tim...really looking forward to seeing all the holes in this detail! 

What a great way to start your round..visually it just looks amazing, and it seems like it would give you some confidence with the width.  Just looking at the pictures first, I didn't think the bunkers would be in play off the tee.  Love the hidden bunker behind the green as well.

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2010, 10:12:47 AM »
Jim - there are several of us that would be very interested and you are welcome to post any and all of that information on this thread if this is a convenient place to do so. As I mentioned I will be going at a nice, slow pace so there will be plenty of time. I will make sure not to proceed to the next hole until you've had a chance to weigh in if you want to use this forum.


Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2010, 10:14:14 AM »
Tim,

I have debated since the end of last year if I should do a " Anatomy of a golf hole" on each hole hole with sketches and written text. 

Your coverage of each hole and how it played has a general interest among some loyalists.  I am wandering if somebody would like to know how each hole evolved and certain trials and tribulations played out?

Jim, that would be great, sounds like it could be a good book!

Maybe you could tag on an explanatory post as Tim illustrates each hole.  That would in turn make a really good "In My Opinion" piece jointly authored by Bert and Urbina!

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Fan's Photo Tribute to Old Macdonald - Hole #1 Commentary in progress
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2010, 10:16:26 AM »

Tim -

Any chance that you start a new thread with each new hole? 

That way discussion can continue on a particular hole after you have started another hole?


And, if lucky, there could be 18 threads about Old Macs on the first page of GCA, almost eliminating OT topics ...

You can thank me later ...

Mike
"... and I liked the guy ..."

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