[George Pazin]

Thanks, Dale, for agreeing to do a thread. Dale has quickly become known to many on this site as one of the Rules go-to guys, frequently providing a practical perspective as an official who is out there officiating!

I'm particularly anxious to hear from Dale, as he is also one of our friends from the great white north. The Canadians who post on this site are just a tremendous bunch of guys, always quick with helpful info and thoughtful opinions.

Please welcome Dale with lots of questions - Rules, Canada, whatever!

You know the drill by now. Have fun, play nice.

(Note: For those wondering why I'm starting another while Jim's is still going, he informed me he would be away starting Wed)

-----

On Deck: Next week is Ben Week.

5 Most Recent:

Jim Colton

Ryan Farrow

Alex Miller

George Pazin

Jeff Mingay

Full list:

GTK participants

[Will MacEwen]

Dale - your top 5 public and top 5 private in B.C.

[Ian Andrew]

What do you hope to accomplish with the future work at Royal Colwood?
Is it restorative baseed around ther old photos or a renovation based around some of Macan's broader ideas?

One course to play in Canada, other than RC, what would you choose?

Thanks,

Ian

[Anthony Gray]

  Don't you think for a local club just playing every thing as a lateral hazard is better than stroke and distance to speed up play on the weekends. Tournament play it makes sense, but Sat/Sun pace of play should take prescedence.


  Anthony

[Dale Jackson]

Dale - your top 5 public and top 5 private in B.C.

I don't really like top ?? lists, despite rating courses for one of the major golf publications.  However, here are some of my favourite courses in B.C.

Private

Royal Colwood - I freely admit I am hopelessly biased about my own club, however after 18 years and thousands of rounds I am still challenged by every hole.  #8 is a short Par 4 that I am still not sure which club to hit off the tee.  And I am still discovering small details that AV Macan originally put in his original design.  In a shameless plug, for the members of the DG who have not read my profile on Royal Colwood here is the link - http://golfclubatlas.com/in-my-opinion/royal-colwood

Capilano - one of the great settings for a course - Stanley Thompson certainly got his share of those.  His routing on a fairly extreme piece of land is fantastic, it is a course members can walk well into their later years  Some great greens and of course Thompson's trademark bunkering.  The clubhouse is magnificent and features the best men's lounge I ever expect to see.

Shaughnessy - One of Macan's last courses and, despite later architects attempts to remove his characteristic design elements, a course that is still fun and challenging to play for the members but, as evidenced by the 2005 Canadian Open, more than stands up to the best in the game.  Although Macan's designs have usually been worked over by others, I am not aware of any of his courses that have had the routing changed, he excelled at that part of course design.  Although I am by no means a Colt expert, I am struck by the similarities in the look of their courses.

Rivershore - I am not generally a fan of modern style courses but this RTJ Sr. design in Kamloops has always attracted me.  Built on a fairly ordinary piece of land, RTJ made the most of what was offered.

Public

Cordova Bay - probably not a great golf course but it is fun to play and the ownership understands exactly what they are trying to do with the course - offer great value on a good course - and execute their vision perfectly

Ledgeview - a course that is not without flaws but it continues to turn out some the best golfers (Ray Stewart, James Lepp and Nick Taylor to name the three most well known) in the Province because it offers an exacting test of almost all aspects of the game, particularly in and around the greens

Golden - a great setting in the middle of the Selkirk (?) mountains, with some great holes.  I am not generally a Les Furber fan but his work on the back nine at Golden is terrific.

Salmon Arm - actually semi-private but it has to fit in somewhere.  I have described it as the best 16.5 hole golf course I have played, I am not a fan of #10 or the drive on #11.

I have not played Sagebrush but I expect it would make it on to a list like this.

Not a top 5 list in each category and certainly idiosyncratic with the public courses but so be it.

[Garland Bayley]

Have you played Carnoustie in BC? If so, what do yo think?

[Dale Jackson]

What do you hope to accomplish with the future work at Royal Colwood?
Is it restorative baseed around ther old photos or a renovation based around some of Macan's broader ideas?

One course to play in Canada, other than RC, what would you choose?

Thanks,

Ian

Future work at Royal Colwood.  It is a little of both Ian, although probably leans towards a restoration.  We know from a series of aerial photographs where the original bunkering was and the style used by Macan.  We are looking to restore some of the fairway and cross bunkers that were removed, reposition others to reflect advancements in technology and rebuild all greenside bunkers.  Several of the bunkers remain completely original and have never been maintained properly.  We just finished a pilot project on #1 which entailed restoring a fairway/cross bunker, and rebuilding the two greenside bunkers.  Both the greenside bunkers were original and when the sand was excavated, we found it went down about 2.5 feet!

We have also begun to widen some fairways - they were quite wide in their day but have been cut back over the years, in some cases because tree growth has encroached on fairway widths.  Recently, we have realized that some greens have shrunk and have made some moves to recapture some of the lost surfaces.

One course I have not played in Canada that I would like to play?  Can't hold it to just one.  I would love to see your work at St. Georges.  Sagebrush as mentioned in an earlier post.  Highlands Links is on the list, as will be Cabot Links when it is finished.

[Will MacEwen]

Thanks Dale - I have no issues with idiosyncratic - I guess I meant favourite over top.

[Dale Jackson]

  Don't you think for a local club just playing every thing as a lateral hazard is better than stroke and distance to speed up play on the weekends. Tournament play it makes sense, but Sat/Sun pace of play should take prescedence.


  Anthony

Pace of Play problems are not a function of how a course is marked.  It is a function of players doing everything too damn slow - walking, pulling a club, pre-shot routines etc.  Give players an incentive to play faster and they will, and it all comes down to the culture of the course, and the country the course is in.  Royal Colwood recently went to a system of timing groups through 9 and 18.  During the pilot part of the project, before anyone was subject to any type of sanction, our average rounds went from about 4:05 to 3:50.

My tournament experience shows any pace of play policy needs 3 things to be successful.  It must be easily understood, it must have consequences and it must be enforced, take away any one of the three and the policy will fail.

So, to answer your question, I absolutely do not think playing everything as a LWH is the answer.

[Dale Jackson]

Have you played Carnoustie in BC? If so, what do yo think?

I have not played the course, and it must be one of only 2 or 3 courses I have not played in Greater Vancouver.  I have never heard any feedback on the course, have you played it.  Reactions?

[Garland Bayley]

Have you played Carnoustie in BC? If so, what do yo think?

I have not played the course, and it must be one of only 2 or 3 courses I have not played in Greater Vancouver.  I have never heard any feedback on the course, have you played it.  Reactions?

No I've just driven by (on highway 3?) and seen a sign to it. The name sticks in ones mind.

[Bill_McBride]

Dale, I was a non-resident member of Macan's Columbia-Edgewater in Portland, and I vaguely remember a couple of rounds at the California Golf Club in South San Francisco years before any renovation / remodeling work.

I love playing CECC, but I'm not sure what really constitutes a "Macan" style of design.  Can you tell me what you think comprises that style?

Thanks.

P.S.  I certainly agree with everything you said about Capilano, what a great golf course and club!

P.P.S.  Have you played any golf with Bob Jenkins of Vancouver?

[Bob Jenkins]

Dale,

Hopefully one of these days, we will be able to get together for a game. Sagebrush is waiting for you!

Having read Bill McBride's post, and having played several Macan courses, I too am interested in the Macan "style", especially whether there is a bunker style he favoured. Looking at the bunkers at Shaughnessy, they are clearly more of a modern style and totally unlike those at Royal Colwood and Marine Drive, for example. I suppose that is because others have completed modifications over time. So if you are to restore RC, what bunker style would we see?

I believe you mentioned that Mike Riste, who runs the B.C. Golf Museum, was writing a book on Macan. Is that correct and if so, can you tell us what you know about it's status?

You are very active in the Royal Canadian Golf Association. Can you tell us more about the work you perform for them and are they now commited to having the Canadian Open in the west more often ? (I note Shaughnessy gets a return visit next year).

Garland, the only Carnoustie course I am aware of in B.C. is a public course in Port Coquitlam, a suburb to the east of Vancouver. I played it once many years ago and have not been back. Flat, boring and no architectural merit is about the best I could say about it. Highway 3 is in the southern interior of B.C. but I do not know of a course in that area known as Carnoustie.

Bob Jenkins

[George Pazin]

Forgot to ask my standard questions:

What brought you to golf?

Golf course architecture?

This website?

[Garland Bayley]

Bob,

Must have been hiway 7 then?
East of Vancouver is the right place.

[Dale Jackson]

Forgot to ask my standard questions:

What brought you to golf?

Golf course architecture?

This website?

What brought me to golf? Like a lot of interests I have in my life, I seem to have born with the attraction.  My parents were non-athletes to say the least but something about the game grabbed me early on, despite the following story.  When I was 7 a friend in the neighbourhood received a cut down club.  We were playing around with it and he proceeded to clip me on the side of the head and cut me for a few stiches.  Nevertheless, I was not to be thown off the game.  About 3 years later my mother bought my father a starter set of golf clubs.  After trying the game 2 or 3 times he swore it was a pastime invented by the devil!  But the clubs sat in the basement exerting their siren song.  I started chipping around the yard, ventured to a pitch and putt, and then the local muni.

I never got serious until quite a few years later, when time, money and an understanding wife came together.  We both got hooked in our mid 30s, and joined Royal Colwood in 1992, my wife had never set foot on the course.

The game has come to play a central part in my life  and I have become involved in just about all areas - playing, rules, club volunteer and serving on amateur golf Boards.

Golf course architecture?  Well I might have been one of the youngest practising architects!  I mentioned chipping in the yard when I was 10 or 11.  My best friend and I commandeered a push mower from my father, lowered the blades and proceeded to mow some small greens, cut some holes and used old tuna tins to serve as hole liners.  We had some hills in the yard and our course featured an elevated green, elevated tee and a couple of doglegs around the corners of our house.  To say the least, I had understanding parents.

My introduction to real architecture started with my first round at Royal Colwood in 1986.  The 6th hole is a superb par 4 and when I played it for the first time, I swore if I ever had the money to join a private club it would be Royal Colwood.  I really began to study architecture when my wife and I went to play golf in the UK for the first time in 1995.  Our first course was Royal Cinque Ports and as we walked the course the night before with a friend who was also on the trip, I realized links golf and Deal were something very special.  I have been privileged to play Deal several times over the years and I am more impressed every time.  I will be renewing my acquaintance with the course in September and look forward to meeting the club's GCA folks at that time.

I have been fortunate to play most of the main links courses in England, Scotland and Ireland since then, and hold links golf as the greatest expression of the game.  I have also been lucky to play a number of highly regarded courses in North America and my admiration for great architecture continues to grow.

This website?  I am a person who always researches courses before I played them, and I noticed Google searches kept bringing me to this site.  I did not notice the discussion group for many months but eventually started following some of the threads.  I had met John Morrisett, Ran's brother and one of the top 3 rules experts in the world, and that led to me emailing Ran to see if I could become one of the anointed.  He opened the gates and the rest is history.

[Dale Jackson]

Dale, I was a non-resident member of Macan's Columbia-Edgewater in Portland, and I vaguely remember a couple of rounds at the California Golf Club in South San Francisco years before any renovation / remodeling work.

I love playing CECC, but I'm not sure what really constitutes a "Macan" style of design.  Can you tell me what you think comprises that style?

Thanks.

P.S.  I certainly agree with everything you said about Capilano, what a great golf course and club!

P.P.S.  Have you played any golf with Bob Jenkins of Vancouver?

I have played CECC twice and despite extensive renovations - I doubt there is a Macan green left - I instantly felt at home.  There is something about how Macan routed courses, and I have played probably 10 or 12, that I find very appealing, although I cannot articulate what it is.

Macan was a very accomplished architect, far ahead of his time when he first started, as I have written in my profile of Royal Colwood.  I could write a book on Macan and his courses (and might when I have finished Royal Colwood's 100 year history), and will only highlight what I believe are his design characteristics.  If anyone is interested in more information, search for Macan and Jeff Mingay, Jeff has published 2 or 3 articles that present Macan's career and have some great quotes of Macan's.

1. n He had a great sense of rhythm in his routings, there is a tangible ebb and flow to the challenges of the holes.

2.  He designed courses to test the very best players of his day but really aimed his designs for all levels of player.  In that regard, he rarely closed off the front of the green but left it open for the run up shot or long iron/fairway wood used by higher handicap players.

3.  He was sparing in his use of bunkers and did not design them with the flair of a MacKenzie or Thompson.  But he was very adept at strategically placing them where required to make the player think his way around his courses.  He was not afraid to use central and cross bunkering.  A great quote of his:  

"St. Andrews is plastered with central bunkering. There is in the golf architectural world too much of the very best authority for me to have to make any apology for advocating centrally located bunkers."  

4.  To my mind, his greatest strength was in designing greens.  Royal Colwood retains 15 or the original 18 greens he built and they collectively form as good a collection of putting surfaces as I have seen in this part of the world.  In fact, I just returned from playing Victoria Golf Club this afternoon and I was struck by the strength of most of their greens.  Some are not his work but some obviously are, and those ones are superb.  He made frequent use of false sides and was not afraid to cant greens from front to back.  Another quote of his:

"Today, the uninformed believe a green should be constructed with the slope from back to front, so that it will retain the ball. In brief, this suggests the shot should be a mechanical operation and the result a mathematical certainty. This is not the game of golf. Golf was not conceived as a mechanical operation but rather full of fun and adventure. Many things could happen to the ball after it pitched on the green. The ill-happenings were not regarded as ill-fortune or ill-luck, but part of the adventure, and the more skilled found methods to overcome the risks of ill-fortune."

Thanks for allowing me to present a bit of Macan's approach, he is, in my opinion, a chronically over looked architect from the Golden Age.

Edit:  I forgot to mention a critical aspect of Macan's design approach.  He was one of the very first architects in North America to adopt the so called "strategic" approach to design.  And, was the first to do so west of the Mississippi.

[Dale Jackson]

Dale,

Hopefully one of these days, we will be able to get together for a game. Sagebrush is waiting for you!

Having read Bill McBride's post, and having played several Macan courses, I too am interested in the Macan "style", especially whether there is a bunker style he favoured. Looking at the bunkers at Shaughnessy, they are clearly more of a modern style and totally unlike those at Royal Colwood and Marine Drive, for example. I suppose that is because others have completed modifications over time. So if you are to restore RC, what bunker style would we see?

I believe you mentioned that Mike Riste, who runs the B.C. Golf Museum, was writing a book on Macan. Is that correct and if so, can you tell us what you know about it's status?

You are very active in the Royal Canadian Golf Association. Can you tell us more about the work you perform for them and are they now commited to having the Canadian Open in the west more often ? (I note Shaughnessy gets a return visit next year).

Garland, the only Carnoustie course I am aware of in B.C. is a public course in Port Coquitlam, a suburb to the east of Vancouver. I played it once many years ago and have not been back. Flat, boring and no architectural merit is about the best I could say about it. Highway 3 is in the southern interior of B.C. but I do not know of a course in that area known as Carnoustie.

Bob Jenkins

Re Sagebrush - thanks, I am still hoping I can make it in August.

Re Macan's bunker style - as I stated earlier, his style was understated.  In fact I am struck by the similarity between his bunker designs and Colt's.  I am intrigued by the idea the two of them were influenced by one another before either was working as full time architects.

You are correct in your observation that the bunkering at Shaughessy has been completely redone.  Les Furber is responsible for most of the work, and frankly I think the course suffers because of the loss of Macan's bunkering.  I believe there is little of his bunkering left at Marine Drive either, with the notable exception of Big Bertha on #17.

Those original Macan bunkers that remain on his courses have been reworked by use and time, and rarely retain their original look.  His style at Royal Colwood was quite plain, oval in shape, set into the ground with few raised edges and flat bottomed.  He expanded his palette somewhat in later years but would never be regarded as a renowned bunker stylist.

Re Mike Riste - I actually talked to Mike this past weekend and his book is nearing completion.  His hope is to have it published later this year.  I know something of the amount of work Mike has put in to the book, and I am confident it will be the definitive biography Macan's legacy deserves.

Re the Royal Canadian Golf Association - this is really a question about my involvement in amateur golf, which goes beyond the RCGA.  I will try to be brief.

I have the honour to be on the executive of the Pacific Northwest Golf Association.  The PNGA serves the golfers in BC, Washington, Oregon and Idaho in a variety of ways and has been in existence since 1899.

I am a trustee with the Pacific Coast Golf Association.  The PCGA exists to conduct the Pacific Coast Amateur Championship, one of the leading amateur tournaments in North America.

I am very involved with the RCGA as a rules official and spend a lot of time working on rules education materials.  We are presently finishing a new 4 level rules education program, the first 2 levels of which will be available through the RCGA website.  I would be remiss if I did not mention that the RCGA has rebranded itself to Golf Canada.

As for the Canadian Open, the problem is a lack of suitable venues in large population areas.  There is nothing even close in Vancouver to Shaughnessy, and although Shaughnessy is a great golfing venue, it is very tight to fit in all the infrastructure a PGA Tour event requires.  The same is true of Montreal, other than Royal Montreal there is nothing suitable at present.  Mike Weir and Ian Andrew may soon be starting a project that may result on another suitable course.  Even Toronto, which has a number of courses which can handle the infrastructure, but fall down on the quality of the golf course does not have a lot of choices.  There is not an obvious solution but I am very much looking forward to seeing how St Georges is received at this year's Canadian Open.

[Sean Leary]

Dale,

Have you had a chance to play Lake Spanaway, Macan's last design? Good bones there, I have always thought..

[Dale Jackson]

Dale,

Have you had a chance to play Lake Spanaway, Macan's last design? Good bones there, I have always thought..

No I have not, never heard much good about it and there has always been something else taking me to other courses in the area.  Sounds like I should look it up next time.

[George Pazin]

Interesting comment about John Morrissett - I knew he was a Rules guy, but didn't realize he was a Rules Guy!

Have you noticed any differences in how modern courses tend to play relative to the Rules versus older courses?

Did you play St. George's before Ian's work? If so, can you share some thoughts? I've always been intrigued by Tom D's writeup in his Confidential Guide about St. George's, particularly in how he mentions the hills were utilized.

[Matt Bosela]

Hi Dale,

What is your favourite par 3, 4 and 5 at Royal Colwood and why?

If you could only pick one hole to restore at Royal Colwood, which one would it be and why?

How different was the second green back in the day versus today's configuation.  To my untrained eye, it looked very much out of place with the rest of the greens, as did #11.

I know how I felt playing the 12th hole for the first and only time - do you get a less claustrophobic feeling on that tee and in that fairway after multiple plays?

How many times a year do you see people putt the ball off the 13th green?  The slope on that surface is unrelenting!

Can you give us some history on the 'Cathedral Hole' at RC?  Is there a more peaceful place on the course than walking that fairway among the huge speciman trees?

You're quite lucky to be a member out there - it's just a wonderful club that you call home and my sincere thanks again for helping me find a game there last summer.

[Dale Jackson]

Interesting comment about John Morrissett - I knew he was a Rules guy, but didn't realize he was a Rules Guy!

Have you noticed any differences in how modern courses tend to play relative to the Rules versus older courses?

Did you play St. George's before Ian's work? If so, can you share some thoughts? I've always been intrigued by Tom D's writeup in his Confidential Guide about St. George's, particularly in how he mentions the hills were utilized.

John is the main rules guy on the USGA staff and I don;t think I have ever talked with anyone who has the command of all the rules that he has.  There are a handful of people in the world who deal with the rules at his level and there is no one I would put above him, and at most 3 who would be at his level.

There have been a number of threads recently about the interaction between rules and architecture, and to be frank, I am not among those who see a strong relationship.  Certainly in the very early days, before the R&A and then USGA emerged as the main rules making bodies, there were individual codes, all based on the first set of 13 rules implemented by a group who played on the Leith links and became the Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers.  Each of those codes had elements that applied to the specific course of each club.

But the goal early on was to develop a code that applied to all courses, and that was accomplished well over 100 years ago.  I think Tom Paul would have another view of this and I would be interested hear his views.

The biggest challenge with courses, old or new, is how accurately the course is marked and maintained.  For example, is it difficult to determine if a ball has come to rest in a hazard or could it be outside the hazard.  Another example from a modern course.  In 2007 the USGA Mid Amateur was held over Pacific Dunes and Bandon Trails.  On Pacific Dunes, it was very difficult to tell where maintained bunkers ended and blow out areas started.  In the end the Committee delineated the boundaries with green stakes in some areas.  On both courses it was difficult, actually impossible, to determine whether a ball was on a putting green or off it.  But those are challenges to do with the style of course, not its age.

I have never played St Georges, much to my chagrin.  I have seen photographs, read the club history and talked with a number of people whose opinion I respect, and everything indicates it must be on the bucket list.  I am not sure if Ian Andrew has ever posted anything on GCA about the before and after and his work there but I would love to hear his thoughts.

[Dale Jackson]

Hi Dale,

What is your favourite par 3, 4 and 5 at Royal Colwood and why?

If you could only pick one hole to restore at Royal Colwood, which one would it be and why?

How different was the second green back in the day versus today's configuation.  To my untrained eye, it looked very much out of place with the rest of the greens, as did #11.

I know how I felt playing the 12th hole for the first and only time - do you get a less claustrophobic feeling on that tee and in that fairway after multiple plays?

How many times a year do you see people putt the ball off the 13th green?  The slope on that surface is unrelenting!

Can you give us some history on the 'Cathedral Hole' at RC?  Is there a more peaceful place on the course than walking that fairway among the huge speciman trees?

You're quite lucky to be a member out there - it's just a wonderful club that you call home and my sincere thanks again for helping me find a game there last summer.

Matt, always happy to talk about Royal Colwood!

What is your favourite par 3, 4 and 5 at Royal Colwood and why?

I don't do very well with favourite lists but will give some thoughts.

Par 3 - I think #4 is the best looking of the 4 three pars since we redid the pond a few years ago.  I think #7 has the most charm, however that word could be defined.  #11 and #15 are both strong holes, and before we lost 40 yards on 15 in 1953, I would think that hole was the best of the 4.

Par 4 - There are several options here.  I have already mentioned my love of #6 and #8.  In addition I would mention #9, 12, 13 and 18.

Par 5 - With only two Par 5s there is not much choice and to be frank, they are, to my mind, the weakness of the course.  Of the 2, #5 is by far the better hole.

If you could only pick one hole to restore at Royal Colwood, which one would it be and why?

That is a great question and I would choose #2.  The original bunkering has been completely removed and what is there does not honour Macan's legacy.  The green, as you note, was replaced a number of years ago and it does not fit the rest of the course at all.  The original green was immediately in front of the present green and, as far as I can determine, sloped significantly from right to left and front to back, the latter a real Macan trademark.  I would love to see a replacement for the present green that incorporate some of the original elements.  You are right about #11 being a similar design to #2 but somehow it seems to fit into its setting a lot better.

I know how I felt playing the 12th hole for the first and only time - do you get a less claustrophobic feeling on that tee and in that fairway after multiple plays?

I have never seen another hole anywhere like #12 and I have a love/hate relationship with it.  I love its uniqueness and challenge, I hate what it does to my scoring average!  But, together with 9, 10, 11 and 13. it was a stretch of holes that Macan pointed to as his best work and I can only concur.  It does get less claustrophobic after repeated plays - it actually is not that narrow, especially the drive, but it never gets easier.  The approach shot demands precise placement of the drive to be able to approach the green from the right side, and in the summer driver for a player who can drive the ball about 240 yards or more is not the play.  I take my comment about a love/hate relationship back, I love the hole.

How many times a year do you see people putt the ball off the 13th green?  The slope on that surface is unrelenting!

Rarely does a putt go completely off the green but it is certainly one of the most severely contoured greens in this area of the world, and there is no shame in three putting!  It does become easier over time but only in a relative sense.  Frankly I love the green.  We have recently discovered the green used to extend approximately 20 or 30 feet farther to the right, which would have offered more pinnable areas and that area is not as severe as the present green.  We are in the process of recapturing some of that area right now.

Can you give us some history on the 'Cathedral Hole' at RC?  Is there a more peaceful place on the course than walking that fairway among the huge speciman trees?

Legend has it that the sixteenth - the Cathedral Hole - put the “Royal” in Royal Colwood.  The Prince of Wales was said to have commented that playing the sixteenth hole was like “playing in a cathedral”, with firs on the left and right and several magnificent specimen firs standing sentinel behind the green, and that it was his favourite hole.  Whether the story is true or apocryphal, the hole is a stunning sight from the tee, and on a summer morning with the sunlight dappling the fairway, it is a tremendous visual treat. 

Actually, the trees on the left were much, much smaller when the course was first built and their growth is causing increasing problems with shade and turf quality.

I am glad you got the chance to play the course and I am sorry I was not able to join you.

[Bob Jenkins]

Dale,

I, as one among many, wish to thank you for your frank and responsive answers to our questions. It is very appreciated.

Your love of RC is clear and even though I have only played the course once, I have gained a greater appreciation for the course as a result of your responses. I fell in love with #6 on my round their last year and look forward to coming back to get a greater appreciation.

Hopefully we can get together at Colwood or elsewhere, maybe Sagebrush, this summer.

Thanks again.

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