[Tom MacWood]

Mike
Could you explain why you posted all the articles relating to Mid Surrey...what conclusion are you trying to draw?

Are you at all surprised Evans was unaware that Merion-East had Mid Surrey mounding prior to Whitemarsh?

[Tom MacWood]

That opinion is not only really uninformed speculation, it also happens to be completely untrue. When Evans said in 1913 "some years ago" he did not say Wilson went abroad in 1910 (Wilson actually went abroad a year and a half before Evans wrote that) and it really doesn't matter what YOU think it means because you've never had a thing to do with the recorded history of Merion East and you know no one who ever has had ether. As has been mentioned on this website over the years, the story that Wilson went abroad in 1910 did not come up until about a half a century after Merion East was first created.

There are definitely one or two on this website who seem to think if they just keep repeating the same old misinformation about Merion's history often enough that after a while someone might think it has some credibility.  

Who said anything about 1910? I simply made the point that when I read 'some years ago' I interpret that as meaning more than two years, usually quite a bit more than two. And I suspect 99.9% of the literate world reads it the same way. Do you interpret 'some years ago' as a year or year & few months?

[Mike Cirba]

Tom MacWood,

Thanks for the additional info on Robinson.

So, Robinson was a pro for awhile.   That's good.  

Because he was pro at Atlantic City since 1902 and because you say AC was "redesigned several times during Robinson's tenure" you "can see why Geist would have gone with Robinson"?     Perhaps the long-time caddies there at that time should have also gotten in line for architectural careers by osmosis?

Are you stark, raving mad, Tom?!?   What the *@#(@ type of criteria is that?    And yet you claim that Hugh Wilson had no business designing golf courses because his Ivy League education and early scratch game and travel around to the best courses of the time in this country as the captain of Princeton's golf team and as one of Philadelphia's top amateurs for over a decade, and on the Green Committeee at Princeton while the new Willie Dunn course was being built left hiim a "complete novice"?    

Seriously, what kind of criteria is that?    Are you from the old school that says because a golfer is a "pro" they are automatically imbued by their chosen profession with some type of design talent, a widely held misconception in the early part of the game in this country that led to a very sad state of early architectural affairs.   You've shown that during a long career in golf he evidently knew a few people, but by any stretch as an early pro, you have to admit that his design/construction experience is thinner than Ally MacBeal.   In fact, there is no evidence that he ever designed or laid out a single golf hole prior to Seaview, is there?

Can you list for us all of the redesigns of AC during his tenure?   I do know that HH Barker was responsible for some changes around 1910, mostly in the way of bunkering, and I posted an article above that compared those bunkers with those at Seaview when it opened and it wasn't pretty.  



Does this sound like the type of work Geist was hoping to emulate for his "monument to himself" at Seaview??!?

Clarence Geist had more money than God, and as Hugh Wilson noted in his letter to P&O, money for him was no object on this project.   He could have chosen any architect he wanted and lord knows he certainly had the connections as well.  

And yet, we know that Geist chose Robinson to be his onsite project manager, and we know he chose Hugh Wilson, as well, so we can both be incredulous....like your incredulity at Merion choosing Hugh Wilson to design and construct the East course...or we can accept that history and try to learn the rest.  

Robinson left Atlantic City in 1911, and went to Spring Lake, which was started by some guys from Whitemarsh Valley, and then came to Seaview.   Robinson left Seaview in 1915 at the same time Geist brought in Wilfred Reid...I'm not sure which came first.

After leaving Seaview he went to Philadelphia Cricket Club where he was pro for at least ten years.

Around 1915 a new course was being proposed to be built in Ocean City, NJ, and reports had Robinson leading construction.   The course was not built at that time, probably because of WWI.

However, by the mid 20s, the course was being talked about again, with Robinson again in a prominent role.    

Joe Bausch and I are trying to track down whether or not this course was Ocean City CC, which was designed by Willie Park and which is today known as Greate Bay CC.    We believe that it is but are digging a bit deeper.    

[TEPaul]

"It appears Robinson eventually retired to AC, which is acknowledged in the article from 1953. The long time pro at Seaview, Fraser, seems to be fairly close to Robinson. I wonder if Fraser was the source for the 1939 article which claimed Robinson and Geist were responsible for the original design."


It might be appropriate to add a bit more "informational meat" to "Fraser" in the above remark such as his first name and the fact he was certainly more than just the long term pro at ACCC. That would be Leo Fraser who ended up owning ACCC that carried on with his family for many, many years (eventually selling out to Bally/Hilton maybe a decade or so ago). Leo Fraser was also the man perhaps mostly responsible for engineering the separation of the Tournament Players Division of the PGA of America into the separate entity we know today as the "PGA Tour." An old better ball partner of mine from Philadelphia believes he was largely responsible for precipitating that split. Therefore, being the prominent man he was in golf around here, of course Leo Fraser could've been responsible for information in that newspaper report about old timer Bill Robinson. Doug Fraser was the last of that remarkable ACCC Fraser family I knew (I'm positive the likes of Archie Struthers knows Doug well as I bet the Jersey golfers on here such as Jamie Slonis and Chet Walsh do too. I believe today Doug is the green chairman of Indian Creek which keeps the Fraser connection with William Flynn from ACCC going). There's a ton of that kind of old time mostly oral but sometime written golf history around here but it helps a lot to be from around here to be aware of most or even some of it.

PS:
Doug even claims he was the one who many years ago personally carried a bunch of Sea Grass or Marram grass from ACCC up to Merion that was planted in the bunkers of the East course and became famous for it.  

[TEPaul]

"Who said anything about 1910? I simply made the point that when I read 'some years ago' I interpret that as meaning more than two years, usually quite a bit more than two. And I suspect 99.9% of the literate world reads it the same way. Do you interpret 'some years ago' as a year or year & few months?"



Who said anything about 1910?

Well, among others, the club's history book did. I suppose some may be interested in how you interpret what William Evans meant and how you think others might interpret what William Evans meant when he reported in Oct 1913 that HIW went abroad "some years ago" but my point is neither your interpretation nor anyone else's interpretation of what William Evan's meant had anything to do with why the club's history was mistaken when it reported HIW went abroad in 1910 instead of 1912.

And why is it important to know when HIW went abroad and when that story first came up-----eg whether it was in 1910 or 1912?

As we shall see, THAT is an EXTREMELY good question in and of itself! The point is it was not a mistake reported anywhere near the time Wilson and his committee routed, designed and constructed Merion East in 1911, and therefore was not important to anything Wilson and his committee did at Merion East in 1911. That mistaken story that HIW went abroad (1910) BEFORE Merion East began and the story that he had to do that FIRST to prepare himself for his job of routing and designing Merion East would not occur for over half a century. And for that reason alone USING THAT story that Wilson had to have gone abroad BEFORE Merion began in 1911 to have been able to do what he and his committee did in 1911 is completely bogus.

Some on this website have tried to suggest and conclude that the story that Wilson had to have gone abroad BEFORE Merion East began in 1911 was based on the fact that going abroad before 1911 was part of the original thinking of Merion (MCC) and therefore if that story was wrong the design attribution of Merion to Wilson and his committee must consequentally be wrong as well-----eg the essential beginning logic point of the essay posted on here entitled “The Missing Faces of Merion.”

This is another reason why this particular thread started by Joe Bausch about the time taken before bunkering Merion East, and the reasons why it was done that way, is very important to know or at least to discuss at length if one is to truly understand the architectural history and evolution of Merion East----eg the modus operandi of Wilson and his committee would be to wait to even begin to “bunker” and “feature up” the design of Merion until Wilson had the opportunity to go abroad and study what he considered some of the most useful architectural features and architectural models over there that might be applied to the design of Merion East when he returned after 1912.

[TEPaul]

“Are you stark, raving mad, Tom?!?   What the *@#(@ type of criteria is that?
Seriously, what kind of criteria is that?”


What kind of criteria is that? I’ll tell you what kind of criteria it is. It’s the kind of criteria that has come from the Tom MacWood school of golf architectural research and analysis known as----“If you throw a whole bunch of old articles and such at some subject, no matter how tenuous those articles are to the subject at hand, someone might actually think there must be some important connection or point in them to the subject at hand.”

This type of golf architectural research and analysis has been labeled by some of the more considered and intelligent opinions on this website as “positivism” or “Mostly smoke and no fire.”

This school of research and analysis has been evident on here not only with Merion and Seaview and Wilson but also with Pine Valley and Crump, with Myopia and Leeds, and even recently with North Shore CC.

With the good “on site” research of others it has been and eventually probably will continue to be proven as quite wanting and lacking in accuracy and historic credibility.

Personally, I have always felt that Mr. MacWood has an agenda in doing this kind of research and analysis and it will probably mightily surprise some that I actually think his agenda is interesting and worthwhile but only if he could finally find the wherewithal to admit it.

If he can somehow manage to do that I think it might uncover some interesting facets about golf architectural history that can be and would be far better presented than the sort of contrary approach to golf architectural history that he has heretofore decided to take.

[Tom MacWood]

Tom MacWood,

Thanks for the additional info on Robinson.

So, Robinson was a pro for awhile.   That's good.  

Because he was pro at Atlantic City since 1902 and because you say AC was "redesigned several times during Robinson's tenure" you "can see why Geist would have gone with Robinson"?     Perhaps the long-time caddies there at that time should have also gotten in line for architectural careers by osmosis?

Are you stark, raving mad, Tom?!?   What the *@#(@ type of criteria is that?    And yet you claim that Hugh Wilson had no business designing golf courses because his Ivy League education and early scratch game and travel around to the best courses of the time in this country as the captain of Princeton's golf team and as one of Philadelphia's top amateurs for over a decade, and on the Green Committeee at Princeton while the new Willie Dunn course was being built left hiim a "complete novice"?    

Seriously, what kind of criteria is that?    Are you from the old school that says because a golfer is a "pro" they are automatically imbued by their chosen profession with some type of design talent, a widely held misconception in the early part of the game in this country that led to a very sad state of early architectural affairs.   You've shown that during a long career in golf he evidently knew a few people, but by any stretch as an early pro, you have to admit that his design/construction experience is thinner than Ally MacBeal.   In fact, there is no evidence that he ever designed or laid out a single golf hole prior to Seaview, is there?

Can you list for us all of the redesigns of AC during his tenure?   I do know that HH Barker was responsible for some changes around 1910, mostly in the way of bunkering, and I posted an article above that compared those bunkers with those at Seaview when it opened and it wasn't pretty.  

Does this sound like the type of work Geist was hoping to emulate for his "monument to himself" at Seaview??!?

Clarence Geist had more money than God, and as Hugh Wilson noted in his letter to P&O, money for him was no object on this project.   He could have chosen any architect he wanted and lord knows he certainly had the connections as well.  

And yet, we know that Geist chose Robinson to be his onsite project manager, and we know he chose Hugh Wilson, as well, so we can both be incredulous....like your incredulity at Merion choosing Hugh Wilson to design and construct the East course...or we can accept that history and try to learn the rest.  

Robinson left Atlantic City in 1911, and went to Spring Lake, which was started by some guys from Whitemarsh Valley, and then came to Seaview.   Robinson left Seaview in 1915 at the same time Geist brought in Wilfred Reid...I'm not sure which came first.

After leaving Seaview he went to Philadelphia Cricket Club where he was pro for at least ten years.

Around 1915 a new course was being proposed to be built in Ocean City, NJ, and reports had Robinson leading construction.   The course was not built at that time, probably because of WWI.

However, by the mid 20s, the course was being talked about again, with Robinson again in a prominent role.    

Joe Bausch and I are trying to track down whether or not this course was Ocean City CC, which was designed by Willie Park and which is today known as Greate Bay CC.    We believe that it is but are digging a bit deeper.    

Wow, just presenting additional information on one of the involved characters results in a full blown attack on the poor guy. Reminisent of the desperate attacks on the qualifiactions of CBM and Barker during the Merion debate. Actually this latest attack was ever better employed, you got two birds with one stone throwing Barker under the bus once again. I'm surprised you didn't bring up the name of Tom Dunn. Here are a couple quotes from Hazard (Tilly) on the changes made to the Northfield course at AC. He seemed to appreciate the changes.

Philadelphians who spend their
week-ends at Atlantic City were most
agreeably surprised last week in finding
real changes under way which will
greatly improve the Northfield course.
New hazards are being placed and the
present pits are being made deeper.
The old order has been changed and
after leaving the first hole the old
sixth, seventh, fifth, second, third,
fourth and eighth are played. Wide
water hazards guard the old second
green and the old third will be a drive
and short iron onto an island green.
The eighth hole will be considerably
lengthened and the total length of the
course brought up to six thousand
yards. Some of the new pots are too
small, but I understand that this fault
will be remedied. ~~January 1909

The course at Northfield has long
been popular the year through, for in
winter the conditions are so favorable
that the greens are always in very
good order. Consequently golfers
from Philadelphia and New York
often take the short run for the weekends.
For a long time the green committee
seemed rather reluctant to
change the old course to the requirements
of the modern game, although
many suggestions were offered from
time to time by visiting players. However,
during the past few years a
number of changes have greatly improved
the course, and the play has
been more exacting because of new
hazards. ~~January 1911
 

As far as why I thought Robinson would be appealing to Seaview I said his experience with the unique marshland environment could be a factor. Its not something I would imagine a lot of people would have experienced.

Now you are saying Geist had more money than God therefore he would only approach the best of the best, aka Wilson, one of the best of the best. Just yesterday or the day before you said the reason Wilson was not mentioned in the AC newspapers was due to the fact no one knew who he was...which is it?

Wilson and the others here weren't into it for the money, Tom, and it surprises me not in the least that the Atlantic City papers in 1913 didn't report Wilson by name as they wouldn't have known who he was and he frankly could have cared less that they didn't.

[TEPaul]

"There are lots of references in the early literature about golf architecture to the idea of taking one's time about adding bunkers to a course.  As I mentioned above, this was a more practical approach in the days before irrigation systems and subsurface drainage and, indeed, heavy construction equipment; nowadays you would be tearing up the course a lot more to add a bunker in the middle of a fairway."


TomD:

To expand a bit on that thought of yours from Post #33, I note what Piper and Hugh Wilson mentioned in that vein in their correspondence in the early 1920s-----eg that in the old days both many things and many people to do with the designing and building of golf courses were simply not "specialized" compared to the way things would later become. I assume you know exactly what I mean by that with the earliest emigrants in the late 19th century, the first decade of the 20th and even into the teens. Most all of them were multi-taskers who just didn't have the time to devote solely to golf architecture the way they would from the 1920s and on.

Also, we have to remember and appreciate that in those early years there were no American golf professionals of any kind for the simple reason golf had essentially just started over here. That alone was probably good reason why a number of those significant American "amateur/sportsmen" architects who did a few impressive projects did what they did. Once the professional architect contingent got better organized and specialized just with architecture after around the end of WW1 it was basically not necessary anymore to do what those significant "amateur/sportsmen" architects had done in the early days.

[TEPaul]

"Wow, just presenting additional information on one of the involved characters results in a full blown attack on the poor guy. Reminisent of the desperate attacks on the qualifiactions of CBM and Barker during the Merion debate. Actually this latest attack was ever better employed, you got two birds with one stone throwing Barker under the bus once again. I'm surprised you didn't bring up the name of Tom Dunn. Here are a couple quotes from Hazard (Tilly) on the changes made to the Northfield course at AC. He seemed to appreciate the changes."


I completely fail to see how anything Cirba said about Robinson (that was quoted in the post above) could be considered some attack on Robinson. It looks like a fairly detailed chronological explanation of exactly what he did in golf over a very extended period of time. Apparently it is easier for you to respond to that by calling it an attack than it is for you to respond to what it actually is and means historically. Just part of the on-going reason it's virtually impossible to intelligently discuss these subjects with you.

Your deflecting interchangeable responses include----

1. I don't understand what you mean.
2. Why are you being so emotional?
3. Why are you being so defensive?
4. Why are you attacking these people?

And then when you are presented with some responses such as the real Merion history of the 1910 story it seems you feel your best policy is to just avoid it altogether. Frankly, I guess from your perspective that would be very understandable.

[Mike Cirba]

Tom MacWood,

I didn't attack poor Mr. Robinson, bless his soul.

What I did was question the hypocrisy of your attempts to elevate the obviously non-existent design resume of William Robinson into something that would credibly make a smart, rich guy like Geist single him out while continuing to maintain that it's preposterous to think that similar smart, rich guys at Merion would have ever  put a "complete novice" like Hugh Wilson (and his committee) in charge of designing and building their new golf course.  

I even tried to help you out by fililng out his resume a little more, including later construction activity, although I do have to guiltily admit that a little sick, twisted part of me did enjoy reading about Barker's Byzantine Bunkers at ACCC.    

However, I do think I know why Geist hired Robinson and I'm surprised that you didn't think of it as well.   For a guy who spends a lot of time studying the past and has a lot of knowledge about the history of architecture, I think your "blind spot" around this whole non-acceptance of the amateur architect phenomenon sometimes doesn't let you see the obvious, especially in historic context.

I think Geist hired Robinson because 1) he knew golf, and 2) because he was there.  

In 1913, Atlantic City was a far cry from what we think of today, paritcularly as relates to golf.   Travel from Philadelphia and/or New York City to Atlantic City was a couple hour train ride, and in between was nothing but swamp and sandy forests.  

Do you know how many golf courses existed in the roughly 50 miles between Philadelphia/Camden and Atlantic City?

Pine Valley was just starting up, there was Atlantic City Country Club, and a crude short nine-holer way down in Cape May at the tip of NJ.     That's it.

Summer golf was virtually non-existent.   Vast swarms of mosquitoes and greenhead flies were the bane of anyone venturing into the "meadows", or those swampy  areas along the bay a few miles inland during summer months.    At least closer to the ocean where it was breezier those problems were tolerable.   The newspapers had virtually no golf reporting except in the months from November to March.  

So, to oversee his vast, ambitious undertaking, Geist needed someone who could essentially live there year round while numerous activities were taking place.   Don't forget that Geist himself was still living near Philadelphia, and still active as President of Whitemarsh Valley.   Geist also had grandiose plans to reclaim a lot of meadowland swampy bay-fronting land for his golf course(s), which seemed to never quite work out, but he clearly needed onsite help, and Robinson gave him that.

As far as Hugh Wilson, Philadelphian Clarence Geist surely knew hiim, and the two were friends and on some of the same GAP committees, including one in the spring of 1913 to locate a site for a public golf course in Philadelphia.  

Geist would have also been very familiar with Wilson's work at Merion East, as it opened as the best course in the city.  

But, would that knowledge and notoriety of Wilson's low-key accomplishment and ablities have translated to the local readership of an Atlantic City newspaper, read by locals who inhabited the shore towns...the fishermen and hoteliers, and restaurant owners and trinketeers?   Hardly.    

[Tom MacWood]

I found this article in Golf magazine 10/1911. It matches Geo C. Thomas's description found in his book (except he was off by a year):

"I have had the great privilege of knowing George Duncan, of Scotland, for many years, first meeting him in NewJersey during 1910 when the Spring Lake Golf Club of that state was completing its course. I well remember playing in a match with him and our professional William Robinson. Duncan went over our new layout and gave us kindly advice concerning the construction."

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

Yes, I caught that one too...thanks.   My understanding is that Whitemarsh Valley guys Samuel Heebner and George Thomas originally designed (started) Spring Lake around 1910 or so, but have no other info.  

That may be where Robinson got his feet wet with construction, but he was pro there pretty briefly between ACCC (where he left in early 1911) and Seaview (where he came in the first part of 1913).   But, it does reiterate the connections between Robinson and Whitemarsh Valley/Seaview I mentioned earlier.

[JESII]

I'm sure I missed the reason here somewhere, but that snippet of the article is about William Robertson, not William Robinson...maybe they were cousins...

[Tom MacWood]

Where did you get your information that Heebner and Thomas designed Spring Lake?

[Mike Cirba]

Where did you get your information that Heebner and Thomas designed Spring Lake?

Tom,

Shack's book "The Captain", and I have a magazine article somewhere on Spring Lake that includes that info.   

Do you have info to the contrary?

[TEPaul]

Robinson, Robertson, whatever, it's the same guy, just as George J. Thomas, Jr and George C. Thomas Jr is the same guy. Thank God one didn't have to put these newspaper reporters on the stand and swear them in as to their accuracy in some of these articles.

[Tom MacWood]

What magazine article?

[TEPaul]

Yes Michael Cirba, what magazine article?? If it happens to be by William Evans, don't bother presenting it as I think it has already been shown by the prosecuting expert researcher/analyst of Golfclubatlas.com that Evans's articles are inadmissable as credible evidence since his egregious reporting error in his article of Oct. 1913 that Hugh Wilson went abroad "some years ago" when everyone should know that eighteen months prior on March/April 1912 cannot possibly be considered to mean "some years ago," therefore that must be the reason why everyone thought Wilson went abroad before Merion East began in 1911. That egregious error in Merion's history therefore must be considered entirely attributable to William Evans. Did William Evans write anything about Pine Valley and Crump or Herbert Leeds and Myopia?? If so, it's very likely all his fault that Harry Colt and Willie Campbell got so badly minimized and dissed in Philadelphia and by Philadelphians for all time to come!!

Outrageous man he must have been. Joe Bausch, I think you should expunge all his articles and his name from your otherwise impressive newspaper files!

Shack's book, The Captain? Well what does Shack really know about Thomas anyway, and even if he does can he really PROVE what he said? Here's what he said:

"In 1910 Thomas designed another course, this time for the Spring Lake Golf Club in New Jersey. He noted in his book that George Duncan, the architect responsible for restoring several important holes at Royal Dornoch in Scotland after World War II, made a visit to the Spring Lake course during construction and "went over our new layout and gave us kindly advice concerning construction."

What the hell is that all about? Where is the VERIFIABLE FACTS and the PROOF that George Thomas had anything to do with Spring Lake?? From the sounds of that quoted remark one might have to credibly conclude that George Duncan must have routed and designed Spring Lake or at least been the driving force behind it. How could it be construed otherwise----look at that language---eg "went over our new layout and gave us kindly advice concerning construction."

THAT is IDENTICAL to what Macdonald and Whigam were reported to have done with Merion East and according to that incredibly cogent essay on here "The Missing Faces of Merion" that verily means that Macdonald designed Merion East, doesn't it?

Spring Lake in New Jersey, change your history books and your architect attribution---it can now be positively proven that the great Scottish architect, GEORGE DUNCAN, routed and designed your golf course and perhaps even in a day or less! It's some pretty amazing shit this incredible research/analysis that emanates from the experts on the Great GOLFCLUBATLAS.com, don't you agree!? How could you disagree----eg inside a week we have now proven that George Duncan designed Spring Lake and that the awesome talent with eyes like a camera lens, William Robinson or William Robertson, whatever, take you pick as to which sounds better, designed the great Seaview!

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

Spring Lake is a tough one to figure.

There was a nine hole course in 1908 that then became an eighteen hole course laid out by pro Willie Norton in 1910 of which 9 opened that year and 9 were ready by spring 1911.

Tilly did a significant revision sometime in the teens I believe.
Anything I have on Thomas/Heebner is at home so I'll have to double check later.

[TEPaul]

"Anything I have on Thomas/Heebner is at home so I'll have to double check later."


Michael Cirba:

THIS must positively prove at least one thing----ie, GEOFF SHACKELFORD has been a member of this nefarious Philadephia Conspiracy Syndrome all along that idolizes Philadelphia architects and disses and shuts out all outsiders!! Frankly, he may've even been the one who originally coigned that misleading term "The Philadelphia School of Architecture" in his book "The Golden Age of Golf Architecture." Matter of fact, he told me about ten years ago that he thought George Crump may've committed suicide but after speaking with him about it for a while for some reason he decided not to write it! Damnit to Hell, I always knew there was somethin' wrong with that GeoffShack!

Michael, the revelations of the truth of our American architectural history has been just breath-taking on here so far. Is there any chance you and Tom MacWood could get together, collaborate and to diligently research the possibility that perhaps "The Guide" of the "Golden Age" Horace Hutchinson or even the original English Arts and Crafts genius William Morris (who heretofore has never been known to have had anything to do with golf or golf architecture) perhaps may've been the real designers or at least the real driving force behind the great NGLA?

[Mike Cirba]

Not sure why we're talking about Spring Lake which was virtually completed by the time Robinson arrived, whoever designed it.

[Tom MacWood]

I found these two articles today. It would appear Willie Norton is at least responsible for the first new nine in 1910. The second nine was added in 1911, which is when Duncan played the course with Thomas & Robinson.

[TEPaul]

Spring Lake GC, belay that last revelation---it was apparently not Thomas and Heebner nor even George Duncan who designed your golf course it was in fact the great Willie Horton who done did it!!!! Forget Shackelford or anything from your own club, forget the Philly researchers, we now have a newspaper article that conclusively proves it.

Don't even think twice, change your history books boys!

Can we now consider Willie Horton to be the third best architect in America at the time (1910-11) right behind the great HH Barker? I would have to say that some of those Spring Lake big timers like US Senator Joseph Frelinghusen really knew how to pick architectural talent when they saw it!!

[Tom MacWood]

Here are a couple more, these are from the NY Times:

[TEPaul]

Very interesting there with Spring Lake and Willie Horton, Tom MacWood.

I think a process of information dissemination back then that most of us are no longer familiar with happened with those articles you just produced. Since the articles from a few different newspapers seem so similar to each other in content and so close together in time it looks like that information may've gone out to the "wire" so to speak to get picked up by various newspapers that felt like using it. I'd say that "wire" information must have come from the club itself or people very close to it. You can also tell in the article attributions such as "Special to the NY Times" or "By Telegraph to the Tribune."

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