[Garland Bayley]

I've changed the subject to be more informative about what the thread does. Hope to gain a few more eyeballs before the thread retires.

The original first post appears below.

My apologies to anyone coming here a second time.












http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41831.0/

Much to my consternation Golfweek made Palouse Ridge #2 Best New in 2009 well ahead of Wine Valley.

Therefore, I decided to put together a little match between two Harbottle courses.

In the following posts you will find Palouse Ridge compared to Juniper (Redmond, OR)

[Garland Bayley]

Palouse Ridge and Juniper both begin with par 4s. Both first tees offer a blind tee shot.

Palouse Ridge


Juniper

 
Palouse Ridge has an interesting site for the first green, while Juniper has world class scenery.

Palouse Ridge


Juniper


I’ll award this one to Palouse Ridge for the green siting.

[Garland Bayley]

The second at these two courses are short par 4s with tee shots heading slightly up hill.

Palouse Ridge


Juniper


For the approach shot Palouse Ridge offers a downhill shot with much of the green surface blind, while Juniper doglegs right and guards the green with bunkers.

Palouse Ridge


Juniper


I found the blind front pin at Palouse Ridge intriguing and award the hole to Palouse Ridge, thereby giving it a 2 up lead.

[Garland Bayley]

For the third hole Juniper offers a par three with a green angled of to the right, while Palouse Ridge offers a long par four with the green angled off to the left.

Juniper


Palouse Ridge tee shot offers an aiming bunker on the far side of the dogleg.



With an uphill approach the green surface is hidden and slopping off to the left like a Redan.



The uphill approach combined with the green position gives this one to Palouse Ridge for a 3 up lead after three holes.

[Garland Bayley]

For a fourth hole, Palouse Ridge has a par three laid out next to a steep drop off to the left, while Juniper has a gorgeous short, strategic par four.

Palouse Ridge


Juniper


This hole goes to Juniper in a heart beat. Palouse Ridge is now two up.

[Garland Bayley]

The fifth hole pits a par 5 with few options for anyone but the tiger golfer at Palouse Ridge against a strategic, interesting and challenging long par four at Juniper.

From the tee at Palouse Ridge, you can see the tiger golfer has the option of sending it long and straight leaving a long but doable carry to get home in two


If you are not a tiger golfer, your tee shot leaves you debating whether or not you need to lay up on your second shot and turn the hole into a four shotter.


The green shot shows the sad story that if this match was based only on greens, Palouse Ridge would lose 18 down.
 

At Juniper on the tee, you need to choose blind second or not, challenge the left side boundary or not.


If you chose blind by accident or by chance you best get your line before reaching your ball for the approach.


If  you chose to go for the approach with a view, you are still going to have to deal with the left side bunkers.


This hole goes hands down to Juniper for having a great long par four, and leaves Juniper only one down after five holes.

[Garland Bayley]

For the sixth hole at Palouse Ridge, there is a long par three playing downhill from a tee commanding a view of much of the property. This is up against a rollicking fun par five at Juniper with a wide driving area, a blind second, and a demanding third to a narrowed playing area surrounding the green.

Palouse Ridge


With a better angle to view the driving area than this view at Juniper, its full width would be seen..


The second shot has to deal with the hillock consuming much of the fairway.


The fairway pinches narrow in front of the green, demanding accuracy on final approach.


Juniper wins the day here again, bringing things all even.

[Garland Bayley]

The seventh hole is a par four at Palouse Ridge, and at Juniper it is the second of consecutive par fives.

Palouse Ridge has the classic dogleg with bunkers guarding the inside.


The green has a bunker to keep bad approach shots from escaping the property.
 

The tee shoot at Juniper is fairly straightforward.
 

But, the approach to the green runs through a swale, giving a skyline green effect for some positions.


The seventh hole goes to Juniper for the interesting play through the swale and uphill to the green. Juniper one up.

[Garland Bayley]

The eighth hole has Palouse Ridge playing to a skyline green on a par 4, and Juniper playing a long par three.

The tee shot at Palouse Ridge has a bunker on the left exactly where many players will want to place their tee shot.


The approach gives little view of the green surface and demands some accuracy.


At Juniper, the green is guarded with a simple bunker right.


The strategic nature of the eighth at Palouse Ridge brings it back into the scoring column and leaving it once again all square.

[Garland Bayley]

At the ninth hole, Palouse Ridge has a left bending, up hill par five, While Juniper has a left bending long par four.

The tee shot at Palouse Ridge does not make it apparent how much of and where the water hazard on the left is.




The green and its bunkering allows for attackable, and nonattackable pins to be set.


The drive at Juniper is away from the water hazard.


Leaving an open approach between the greenside bunkers.


The ninth goes to Palouse Ridge, giving it a one up lead after nine holes.

[Garland Bayley]

The tenth at Palouse Ridge is a long par five from an elevated tee.



Between the drive and the green that is guarded on the right by a bunker there is not a lot of interest.



The tenth at Juniper is a short par five that tempts you to go for the green in two. The tee shot crosses a ridge that can give your drive a turbo boost.



The green is well protected by bunkers to challenge those trying to reach in two shots.



The short par five wins over the long slog at Palouse Ridge. The courses are even to this point.

[Garland Bayley]

The eleventh at Palouse Ridge is a par three with many of the characteristics of a reverse redan.



The eleventh at Juniper is a par four with the tee shot played through a slot between lava mounds, and with an uphill approach to a long green that slopes off the back.



I give this hole to the best par three at Palouse Ridge. Palouse Ridge, one up.

[Garland Bayley]

The twelfth at Palouse Ridge is a par four running along a ridge top.





The twelfth at Juniper is a great drivable par four playing across a narrow valley to a green sloping away from the line of play.



This hole clearly goes to Juniper evening the contest again.

[Garland Bayley]

The thirteenth at Palouse Ridge is a long downhill par three, which I unfortunately forgot to get a picture of.

The thirteenth at Juniper is a very short par three with a tiered green that is lower in the back that makes getting a good score more difficult than one would expect.

 

The deceptive and challenging nature of the short par three wins this one for Juniper which goes one up.

[Garland Bayley]

The fourteenth at Palouse Ridge is a par four that plays along the hillside.

 

Playing safe to the right leaves much of the approach target blind.

 

Juniper has a classical risk reward par four dogleg with bunkers guarding the inside of the dogleg.





The intelligent use of the terrain awards this to Palouse Ridge bringing us back to even.

[Garland Bayley]

The fifteenth at Palouse Ridge is a drivable par four. Unfortunately it is a weak drivable par four compare to his other efforts at Juniper (seen earlier) and Gold Mountain Olympic. I feel it even falls short of Dairy Creek as a drivable par four.





The fifteenth at Juniper is a risk reward par four dogleg with water providing much of the risk. The tee shot is blind, even for the safe route around the outsize of the dogleg.





The quirk and thought required by the Juniper hole brings Juniper back into the lead one up.

[Garland Bayley]

The sixteenth at Palouse Ridge is a straightforward short par three played primarily with a wedge to a flat green.



The sixteenth at Juniper is a longer par three that gives the option of playing the ground slopes to try to being the ball into position.



Juniper takes a two up lead for the first time.

[Garland Bayley]

The seventeenth at Palouse Ridge is a par five with a blind tee shot.

[IMG  width=800 height=600]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/bokuhan_hagaromo/PalouseRidge/PalouseRidge017TeeShot.jpg[/img]

The tee shot needs to be played short of the crossing hazard, and then a hazard guards the entire right side up to the green.



The seventeenth at Juniper is a long uphill par four.



Unfortunately, the photographs do not show the terrain well that made up one of my favorite holes at Juniper.



Juniper closes out the match three up with one to play.

[Garland Bayley]

The eighteenth at Palouse Ridge is a dog leg left up hill par five, which unfortunately has been done already in closing out the front nine.





The eighteenth green was the most interesting one on the course. Palouse Ridge could be a lot better with better greens.



The eighteenth at Juniper doglegs right around the irrigation pond that lies between the 9th and 18th.





The green at Juniper is also the most interesting on the course as I recall. The difference is that it was one of several interesting greens instead of being the lone standout.



Juniper walks away four up.

[Garland Bayley]

Although Juniper won four up, I am sure some could argue the decisions on the holes and get the match closer or perhaps even. However, several of the holes at Juniper are just so much fun they win the individual hole match by a wide margin. Where Palouse Ridge provides a good standard from hole to hole, it just doesn’t have what I would consider the standout holes that Juniper has.

Both of these courses are reviewed on thewalkinggolfer.com. Those that have seen the reviews there, will recognize some of my pictures from the Palouse Ridge review and all of the pictures from Rob Rigg’s Juniper review. One big difference is the walkability of the two courses. Palouse Ridge faired very poorly in a walkability rating, so the review doesn’t go into depth on the course, as it is not recommended for the walking golfer audience.

[Jordan Wall]

Both are good courses.  I don't favor one over the other; they are very different and each fun to play.

I think individually the holes at Palouse are better, but the routing of Juniper is better. 

I don't recall how undulating the greens at Juniper were, but I remember them being very fast.

Holes like #4, #10, and #13(?) at Juniper and #7, #10, and #15 make the courses stand out, in my opinion.

Having not yet played Wine Valley, I can't comment on the comparison to Palouse, but #2 new in the country is a high honor and it is hard for me to imagine there was only one new course opened in 2009 better than palouse Ridge.

[Mike Wagner]

Garland,

Nice work!  I'm interested in playing Palouse at some point.....it looks sort of Home Course "esque"....long enough to test the players they built it for, but not a ton of strategy.  I've played the HC a bunch, and it's sort of a bombers paradise - lots of length and room.   Is fair to say they're similar in overall lack of strategy in that way? 

Jordan, your thoughts as well?

[Rob Rigg]

Garland,

This is an interesting analysis - well done.

I have not played PR yet so cannot comment to much there - from the photos it looks more "modern" to me with some interesting potentially blind approaches but it seems to play more out in front of you than Juniper. The greens also look flatter.

The Redmond gem is very affordable and very walkable but also in possession of an "old world" charm and some quirk that I really enjoy. There are some strong holes IMO and a few weak ones as well, I was not impressed with the one shotters at all, but overall Harbottle did very well making the most of the property. The greens at Juniper are fantastic - I agree with Jordan that they are fast, but there is also some movement that makes them interesting enough.

I really need to play WV as well - strictly based on photos, and walkability aside, it looks superior to PR - you factor in walkability and on paper (and in pics) it looks like a more "fun" course to play.

[Jordan Wall]

Garland,

Nice work!  I'm interested in playing Palouse at some point.....it looks sort of Home Course "esque"....long enough to test the players they built it for, but not a ton of strategy.  I've played the HC a bunch, and it's sort of a bombers paradise - lots of length and room.   Is fair to say they're similar in overall lack of strategy in that way? 

Jordan, your thoughts as well?

Mike,
I'm not a huge fan of the Home Course.  Individually it has some good holes, but the routing is goofy at best.  Particularly the walk from 10 to 11 is just terrible.
I think it's fair to say theres not a ton of strategy at Palouse.  There a few really good holes, but aside from that bomb and gouge would be a good way to put it.  It's still a fun course, not great but good, and worth playing.  I actually prefer it over the Home Course.
Either way, we're not talking about great courses here, just ones that are fun to play, and thats not a bad thing.
Cheers,
Jordan

[Garland Bayley]

Mike,

I prefer the Home Course to Palouse Ridge. The greens at the Home Course are far superior to the greens at Palouse Ridge. I agree that Palouse Ridge is lacking in strategy. I really couldn't understand Palouse Ridge after having played three other Harbottle courses. I walked around wondering what kind of walking orders he got from the client to create such a thing. My best guess was WSU won't get the cream of the crop golfers, but figured they would go for bombers that are not too adept at putting. I felt many of the bunkers were placed to keep the ball from going to never-never land as opposed to being placed for strategy.

Rob,

I agree the par threes at Juniper totally don't impress. My best impression was of the shortest one, which with the back of the green lower than the front, proved to be a bit of a puzzle. Also, I felt is was an excellent placement for the hole, lying between those two par fours. The place where I believe my comparison of the holes is weakest is granting a win to two par threes at Juniper.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()