[Tom MacWood]

I've seen this man's name associated with golden age European designs but know very little about him other than I understand he was French. What are his best designs? What was his background and how did he get into golf architecture?

[Ulrich Mayring]

Christoph Meister had this to say:
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36935.msg797871/#msg797871

Ulrich

[Christoph Meister]

Tom,

Ulrich correctly referred to my reply in another post - at the moment we (I) do not know much about him:

C. Noskowski was a French golf course architect of Polish origin whose most famous course is the championship course at Karlovy Vary (Karlsbad) which he designed during the 1930s. He also designed the first nine holes at Dellach (Austria), the new 18-hole course at Vienna-Prater (Austria, defunct) and the 18-hole course at Divonne-les-Bains (France). His redesigns included Hendaye (France) and St. Barbe (France).

Karlovy Vary certainly was his master piece. But also the original 9 holes at Dellach are nice - a few holes or at least parts of it are still remaining today...

His firm/practice was called "Office technique du Golf" and I am also wondering if there was also any connection between Charles Bouhana, who was building courses for Colt & Simpson in France, and Noskowski or if they were rather business rivals...

Quite a bid of information can be found in German Golf Magazines from the 1930's about Karlovy Vary (Karlsbad) New Course, Dellach and the new 18 hole course at Vienna-Prater (defunct since 1945). But no biografic information about Noskowski - he remains a mistery and one of those forgotten continental golf architects from the 1920s and 1930s - A friend of mine has found out that his first name was Christophe, but I did not see any proof for myself....Any additional information from someone out there would be most appreciated!

C.

[Tom MacWood]

Christoph
Very interesting info...thank you for sharing it.

Have you (or anyone esle for that matter) played many of his courses, and if so, how would you evaluate him as a designer? I wonder if that hole in his advertisment was ever constructed.

[Bob_Huntley]

Who was C. Noskowski?

When I first saw this, I thought it was a play on words like the English musical hall act of Nosmo King. No Snow Ski sounds like an Alpine weather report.

Bob

[Ulrich Mayring]

What very few people know is that C. Noskowski was just a figurehead. All the work was actually done by his brother M. Noskowski - with evil twin C. taking all the credit:



And then there was another brother, Mr. C. Noskowski, who wrote a book on golf architecture. It would be quite a find to locate a copy:



http://www.amazon.fr/Noskowski-Dubrulle-LArchitecte-Pr%C3%A9face-Henri-Robert/dp/B001BV8G7G

Ulrich

[RJ_Daley]

Ulrich, I hope your postings set off a furious search for that missing golf construction book.  It sounds very interesting, and I'd think a real rare find and treasure to have for one of our more serious golf book collectors.  Those graphics drawings of hole concepts look very cool and classic in appearance.  I'd leave it to the experts, but it puts me in mind of following the style of MacKenzie art work.  Nice posting gentlemen.

[Christoph Meister]

Ulrich,

the articles you posted are all taken from the USGA electronic archives and known to us since long time - how about some new information?

Also we know about the book "L'architecte de Golf" for a long time and have traced at least one copy, but unfortunately not in my collection!

Tom,

I have played Karlovy Vary (Karlsbad) and Dellach and they are both leading courses in their respective countries. Karlsbad has still the original hole routing from the 1930's even though what used to be No. 1 on the early routing plans is now No.12 and therefore No. 9 is now far away from the clubhouse - but at least a small hut is catering for golfer's desire's such as Becherovka (the local Schnaps...). The greens and the bunkers have changed over time and it remains to be analysed in detail how much Noskowski is still left....for exemple the lake on 18 in 1931 (now hole 11) seems to have gone completely whereas during the last years lakes/ponds were added on 3,4, 16 (lake not shown enclosed routing plan) and 17

On one of the below pictures you can see the great Henry Cotton playing out of one of the Carlsbad bunkers during an exhibition match in 1937.

[Jon Wiggett]

Ulrich,

the articles you posted are all taken from the USGA electronic archives and known to us since long time - how about some new information?

Also we know about the book "L'architecte de Golf" for a long time and have traced at least one copy, but unfortunately not in my collection!

Christoph,

I don't know why you feel justified in replying to Ulrich in such a short fashion. If you already knew about this why didn't make it known to other interested parties in your first post on this thread?

[Christoph Meister]

Jon

You are right in the sense that I could have told people here I knew about an article that was published in Golf Illustrated (U.S.) in October 1930 on page 56 covering the new golf course at Dellach.

Also I could have told people her that a book by the title “L’architecte devant la loi” (translating to something like “The Architect and his legal situation”) was co-authored and published by Noskowski in 1931 at Editions Plumon in Paris. It is not a book about golf architecture but about the legal implications the profession has in 1930 France, so maybe not completely what we are looking for in order to learn more about Noskowski.

But then when I see how articles from the USGA archive are posted here without giving the proper source, I am not even talking about if permission was obtained from the USGA to publish their archive’s magazine article copy here on gca.com, then I do loose my appetite to publish information here from my own archives that I have obtained after years of research because of the fear that someone might just use this information somewhere else without giving the proper source.

Having said all this I would nevertheles like to tell you more about Dellach in Carinthia:

Today’s 18-hole course was layouted by German Architect von Limburger during the mid 1960’s when the course was extended from 9 to 18 holes. During the last years there have been some renovations on the course and specially new bunkers were build.

Unlike in Carlsbad there is far less of Noskowski’s work that still remains in Dellach today:

From the original 9-holes there are only holes 1, 2, 3, the last 150m and the green of no6 (now No.12 – pls. see enclosed scan from “Deutsche Golfzeitung” 15.4.1938 compared to two modern photos), 7 (now 13, see also enclosed picture from 1938), 8 (now 14) and green No.9 (now 18) remaining as part of today’s course. Tee No.9 used to be where the driving range is today, so the green n.9 is all that remains of that hole. (You can see that green on the last attached picture)

(All historic photos from my own archive - all modern photos courtesy of Kärntner Golf Club Dellach)

[Ulrich Mayring]

Hi Christoph,

"I believe that all generally useful information should be free. By 'free' I am not referring to price, but rather to the freedom to copy the information and to adapt it to one's own uses... When information is generally useful, redistributing it makes humanity wealthier no matter who is distributing and no matter who is receiving."

So, in order to make humanity wealthier, I'll send you another batch of scorecards on Monday ;-)

Ulrich

[Tom MacWood]

Christoph
That is wonderful info. Noskowski looks to have produced some very lovely courses. I like his style. I wonder who or what influenced him.

[Christoph Meister]

Ulrich,

well replied (even though and to be honest I do not know who Richard Stallmann is) - and of course I happily I not only accept another batch of scorecards from you but will also try to post some more photos very soon - I seem to remember having seen more bunker and green photos of Karlovy Vary in one of the German or Austrian Golf magazines from the 1930's....

I think that then you, Tom and the other guys will get a better idea who might have influenced Noskowski - Personally I think that all these continental golf course architects like von Limburger, Arana, Noskowski and Charvat (a Czechue architect who designed a few courses including the new golf course of Praha GC in the late 1930's which was closed down by the communists during the 1950's) where mainly influenced by Colt, Simpson and A. MacKenzie....but I guess you all also have your ideas and theories....

Please find enclosed two pictures from "Deutsche Golf Zeitung" 15.6.1935 showing greens at Karlsbad. There is also a German language article going with these pictures describing the new course - two points are interesting:

1. "Greens & Bunkers were modelled by Monsieur Varin, one of the best landscapers in Europe" - Has anyone of you come across that name before?

2. "The hole course only has four or five fairway bunkers"

It seems that in 1935 the new numbering of the holes was introduced which is still in use today - I do not know the reason yet....

Christoph

[David Stamm]

Very ineresting info. Thanks for sharing. This first photo's bunker looks very MacKenzie like w/ the "scab" in the middle. Beautiful!

[Ulrich Mayring]

I see a lot of Colt in the designs of Arana, von Limburger and also Noskowski, but less of MacKenzie or Simpson. Obviously, you see what you want to see, but that is my personal impression. I'm not sure where those continental architects could have seen a sizeable cluster of MacKenzie or Simpson courses, but Colt (plus Alison and Morrison) was everywhere.

That being said, the two pictures above definitely look more like MacKenzie bunkering than Colt. But it's the first I've seen in that ilk, so I would like to know more about this Varin character as well.

Ulrich

[Christoph Meister]

As Alfonso has explained to us on different occasions Arana worked together with Simpson before working as a golf course architect on his own....

Von Limburger was the editor and owner of the German Magazine Golf (later Deutsche Golf Zeitung) and in this function he did quite a bid of travelling during the 1920s and 1930S - also he was a playing member of the German National Amateur team - so von Limburger certainly had the opportunity at least to see, play or visit some of the Colt and Simpson courses in Europe.

Btw. all the classic books of golf architecture from the 1920s and 1930s can be found in von Limburger's personal library, so these guys also did some reading even if they never had the chance to visit a MacKenzie course.....

Noskowski published a few articles in the Italian magazine golf, in one of these magazines there is the same picture I found in the German magazine DGZ from 1935 and Noskowski calls it "Natural Bunker"

C.

[Tom MacWood]

That first picture of Karlsbad above looks Simpsonesque to me; the second more like Colt. I wonder if Noskowski was ever involved with Suttons, Carters or Franks & Harris, there is definitely a British influence in his work.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Well, ten years on and I finally got to play Noskowski's marquee design at Karlovy Vary today. They sent me off the 12th, which incidentally was the old #1, so I actually got to play the round like Noskowski designed it. I don't know why they changed the routing, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with the clubhouse location. Another possibility might be that they wanted to get the so-so holes out of the way as soon as possible - the best holes are today's 9-18, which in my "historic" round appeared as 1-7 and 16-18.

The two most striking features on the course are the cross-bunkers on #18 and #11 (my 11 and 18). These would not be built today. On #18 (a short par 5) the cross-bunker can only be carried by longhitters, most average hitters would be right in it. The bunker is not shallow, so from there it's a mid-iron forward at most, which essentially means that even on such a short par 5 the green is unreachable in regulation from the trap. I was alone, so I played several balls off the tee and they all were in it. No way around this trap, I would probably have to lay up with a fairway metal, then hit another over the crossbunker and probably have a mid-iron left into the green. Stunning! And, I'm sure, wildly unpopular!

On #11, a slightly longer par 5,  the crossbunker threatens the second shot. It's built into a hillside and you have to hit over it and up to the elevated fairway. Usually you could merrily chase your fairway metal up the hill, but not with the crossbunker: it can stop any running ball. You have to carry it or else you might get caught in the hillside, which means a pitch out to the elevated fairway. My attempt was so bad, that it bounced off a tree root or something and right over the crossbunker, leaving me with an easy pitch to the green. If I had hit a slightly better shot, I would have buried it in the trap.

Anyway, they don't build holes like that anymore, so I suspect these are original Noskowski features. Perhaps he built even more and these are the last two remaining?

Ulrich

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