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Mac Plumart

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Golf Courses to Learn From
« on: November 01, 2009, 09:54:17 PM »
I am looking for some guidance regarding golf courses to play and study which can enhance my understanding and education regarding golf course architecture.  But more than just a name or two regarding “must play” courses, I am also looking for the reasoning and logic behind why they must be played and what can be learned by playing and studying them.

To serve as a foundation, I will name all of the Top 100 courses I have played to date and the ones I am confirmed to play next year.

Thus far, I have played Kiawah Ocean, Pete Dye Golf Club of WV, East Lake, and Inverness. 

This month I am making a golfing trip to play World Woods (Pine Barrens), Black Diamond Ranch (Quarry), and TPC Sawgrass.

In December, I am hitting Sea Island to play Plantation and Seaside.

Then in 2010, I am trekking to Vegas for my annual March Madness betting/golfing extravaganza.  I will be playing Shadow Creek.

Then in May, I will be playing Pinehurst #2.  This will be followed by Yale and The Honors Course later in the spring/early summer.

In 2011, I am lining up my first Scotland trek.  The Old Course will be my focus, but any input regarding what to hit in addition to TOC is very welcome.


What other courses do I need to check out and why?  My hopes are that this can assist me round out my education, but also I hope that it highlights some ideas others can use to plan and expand upon their golf course architectural education. 

And finally, I hope we all can participate in some constructive give and take regarding some important/historic/revolutionary golf courses.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Philippe Binette

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2009, 10:10:11 PM »
Garden City - simple contours, complex golf course
North Berwick West - golf is fun
Shinnecock Hills - scale
Oakmont - slope

Adam Clayman

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2009, 10:21:53 PM »
Learning from mistakes is a lot easier, and more credible. Go play a few dog tracks and examine how they make you feel and why they made you feel what you felt. Conditioning aside.

 I also encourage you to seek out hidden gems, not only the high profile courses, because, while every hole may not be 'top of the world' holes, identifying what is good versus what is great versus what doesn't work will educate you faster than studying the top of the heap. Plus, you can avoid any perception that you are just seeking access.

One last thing, divorcing your play from the gca analysis is primary, if you want your lessons to be comprehensive. Avoiding the pitfall of subjective redundancy.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Mac Plumart

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2009, 10:52:42 PM »
Philippe and Adam...excellent, thanks.

Adam...love the points.  

I chose to only list the Top 100 courses I've played rather than all the courses I've played because there is only 4 of them and I can fit that number in the post much easier.  I think I've played about 35 total courses so far.  I don't think I've played any course I would call a "dog track", but I've certainly played some ones I don't like at all.  And I have taken notes as to why I don't like them.  

Hidden gems...BABY!!!  That is my favorite topic.  I could go on forever about this topic.  Hidden gems that I've found so far...CC of Columbus, Achasta, Long Shadow, and Lookout Mountain.  I don't think any one of these is anywhere close to being in the Top 100, but they are SWEET courses.  I won't bore anyone with details on this thread...but I could!  

Concerning the appearence of "seeking access", huh?  I'm not asking anyone to invite me anywhere...I don't know who belongs to where and even if I did I wouldn't ask...in fact, I know a lot of people who are very well connected and I can probably get on 90% of courses in the U.S...so that is not an issue with me...but I have offered and will continue to offer to host people (GCA members or not) at some excellent Atlanta-based courses.

  In short, I am sincere in my postings and I have no hidden agendas.  I am in love with golf.  I am intrigued by the games history and the architecture inherent in timeless gems.  I find it fascinating that a course could have been created 50, 100, or more years ago and people still play it and love it.  Timeless!

Anyway, I will shut up now and listen as I am very interested in learning from this feedback.

Thanks again!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 07:08:55 PM by Mac Plumart »
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

R.S._Barker

Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2009, 11:41:50 PM »
Royal New Kent - Traditional Irish Links, on a lovely and inspiring layout. I adore the large greens - which give plenty of opportunity for strategy and lovely views truly help captivate you during a round.

Tobacco Road - What a fantastic course - with vistas and shots to make your heart smile and enough quality golf to make the trip worthwhile.

Both are Strantz designs, and whilst there may be many whom don't like his style - what I discovered playing these for the first time was just how remarkable and memorable each hole and course is. Bold, casual, challenging, are words that encompass both Royal New Kent and Tobacco Road.

NGLA - Many here argue the merits of holes/architecture/architectural intent etc. because they like to - and that is their right - but bottom line this course produces as many great memories as any course in the States, and is on most golfer's short list of must plays.

Household names like Alps, Redan, Double Plateau, Eden, Leven, Narrows, Punchbowl are synonymous with the very history of the game.

Good luck and godspeed!

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2009, 03:47:27 AM »
Mac

I'd suggest you get upto Bandon and play Old Macdonald in mid 2010 along with the other courses there. Will give you some good insights into what to expect for your 2011 trip to Scotland.

In 2011 - I'd certainly recommend you play North Berwick for the uniqueness of some of the holes + it's template holes as well. If time is on your side I'd also recommend you drive upto Royal Dornoch for a special golfing experience. Depends on how much time you have ?

Mac Plumart

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2009, 07:53:30 AM »
Awesome...

RS...I am hitting Tobacco Road during my Pinehurst trip on May...I am pumped and will let you know my thoughts.

Kevin...You touched on an area that I need help with.  I love the idea of hit Bandon Dunes in 2010, but I am unsure if my finances and time available will make that a possibility...but I will certainly keep considering it.  Also, you touched on an area that I need serious help with.  In 2011, I am hitting The Old Course but I am unsure what else to play.  I love the North Berwick idea and I am lining up Muirfield and Musselburgh.  I am a history fanatic so Musselburgh is a must for me.  Should I make a run up to Dornoch during this trip?  Is that too much?  Is hitting Cruden Bay on the way up there a good idea as well or is it too much?  I really would love some thoughts and ideas on this trip.  I want to maximize my experience, but I don't want to over do it.

Thanks again...I am taking notes on all of these ideas!

Mac
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

TEPaul

Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2009, 08:17:27 AM »
Mac:

If you are interested in studying the history of American golf architecture I suggest you start at the beginning of it with the seminal break-through designs of the early years such as Myopia, GCGC, Oakmont, NGLA, Merion East, Pine Valley, Piping Rock etc. Those are the ones that got the most attention back then that I know and have studied. That will get you to about the mid-teens and from there into the 1920s things started to really bubble. If you want to study the rudimentary stuff that sort of came before them or at the same time unfortunately not much of that exists anymore but there are plenty of photos and such of it for you to compare and contrast to the ones mentioned above.

Scott Warren

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2009, 08:33:29 AM »
Mac, if you are planning a Scotland trip, best to search for the thread of Kyle Henderson's from when he was planning his raid. It's encyclopaedic and has some great advice, info and links.

As one down south, I've got to say England deserves a thought from those heading over from the US. It surprises me that many visitors head to Scotland (and Ireland) with blinkers on and don't give England a second thought.

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2009, 08:54:01 AM »
Mac:

One thing to remember is that Scotland (like Ireland) doesn't have motorways (Freeways) to the less populated areas, so what might look quite short on a map, can sometimes take a very long time to travel.

I would say there are more than enough courses of interest in the Fife and Edinburgh areas. You have Elie, Kingsbarns, Carnoustie, Gullane, Noth Berwick, Muirfield not to mention all the courses at St. Andrews. Save Dornoch for later, so you'll have to come back to Scotland again.

Scott:

I agree that people underestimate England. One thing I've learned from the recent threads on Prestbury, Seascale, Pulborough etc is that England shouldn't be forgotten about. There seem to be some great 2nd and even 3rd tier courses there.

Dónal.


Scott Warren

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2009, 09:01:27 AM »

Scott:

I agree that people underestimate England. One thing I've learned from the recent threads on Prestbury, Seascale, Pulborough etc is that England shouldn't be forgotten about. There seem to be some great 2nd and even 3rd tier courses there.

Dónal.



There are also some spectacular first-tier courses here...

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2009, 09:17:35 AM »
Scott:

Yes, I totally agree; I was just singing my praise for the hidden gems. Lancashire must be one of the best regions in the UK, but there are so many more. There are several places that come to mind in England where the "curriculum" is more than enough to "educate" the golfer.

Dónal.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2009, 09:38:11 AM »
Mac:

There is a pretty good list of Courses Worth Study in the back of my book, The Anatomy of a Golf Course.  The book was published in 1991 so it doesn't include all the new stuff, but there is plenty of learn from before 1991.

Keep in mind that this is a lifetime study.  I've been at it for more than 30 years and I am still learning, even though I had seen most everything by the time I was 25.  You aren't going to cover it all in a two-week trip to Scotland.  And, on that point:  if you really want to learn the subject, you would be better off really STUDYING a few courses than just seeing as many as you can.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2009, 10:44:46 AM »
Guys...awesome...please keep it coming.

Tom Doak...I do have your book and have looked at the information in the back.  For where I am, it is a bit overwhelming to me.  But I will continue to refer to it read it and use it as a study guide and I am sure my knowledge base will increase.

Furthermore, Tom you NAILED it!!!  I really want to study these timeless gems.  I am not 100% sure how to do that, but I will use my approach to the Old Course as a starting point. 

First off, it is the most iconic course in the world in my mind.  The Home of Golf and I must play it.  However, in addition to simply playing it I want to appreciate it.  So I am reading about it, asking question about it, and studying it....recall my last few posts referencing some of the quotes from "The Links".

Secondly, I have read a lot about peoples opinions about TOC.  Some love it, some hate it.  So, I dug deeper into why people either love it or hate it.  What I think I found is that it is #1 difficult and #2 quirky. 

Thirdly, to enjoy it I am really working on my game in an attempt to overcome the difficult part of it.  I am making progress.  I played Kiawah Ocean is 30 mph winds and played (and scored) wel enough to appreciate/enjoy it.  So, I am coming around on that end of the spectrum.

Fourthly, Regarding the quirky.  I am of the mindset that studying the course and its quirks will open my mind up as to why these quirks are there what they are challenging you to decide and execute on the course

By, doing this I hope to be able to see why it has been around for so long and enjoyed for so long.  And therefore I hope to be able to apprecite its impact on golf architecture.

Anyway, this post is not about the Old Course but about all the courses that need to be studied and learned from (hence the title of the thread).

I named the courses I've played simply to show people what I've seen and what I know.  Take this for what it is worth and add in those other gems that I need to see.

NGLA has been named...another profound and important course.  I haven' t began stuying it yet, but I will one day soon.

North Berwkcik...my understanding is that that courses features and holes were revolutinoary and its impact is still being felt today.  The Redan there is supposed to be one of the best in the world, correct.

Concerning the length of time it will take to learn all of this...a lifetime...no doubt.  I simply listed what I was doing over the next two years to give you all a sense of what I am already set to see and to also give some credence to the fact that I am not talking B.S.  I am commited to learning and seeing these gems. 

Awesome stuff gys...please keep it coming.  I am so excited to be on this journey and also to be so near its beginning...it is thrilling to me!

Thanks!

Also, if anyone on this site ever wants to join me on a trip or two...let me know...that would be super cool!!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2009, 04:50:36 PM »
Scott...

I found Kyle Henderson's Scotland thread.  Excellent stuff.  I will use its content to assist me.  Thanks.

Mac
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

V. Kmetz

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2009, 05:15:08 PM »
Mac,

I look at your appeal as similar to the time when I began seriously collecting live performances of enduring touring bands.  I had a nice collection going, with many of the unanimously praised performances in tow; I knew of a few I didn't have; and I wanted to strike out on my own discovering for myself about little-collected performances that most of the collecting community either ignored or had already categorized as not worth their time.

In that vein, I offer these from my Westchester-CT-Long Island area.

MUST SEE (for every reason that architecture is observed and played)

NGLA
Winged Foot East
Yale
Fishers Island
Shinnecock


POSSESS A WEALTH OF ENJOYABLE, EDUCATIONAL FEATURES

Bethpage Black - superb variety of topography from flats to valleys to elevations, the 4th hole (which I think is the finest hole of iits size I've seen), strategic driving angles, heroic paths, broad green design, Tillinghast's routing nod(s) to Pine Valley, general "out and back" quality of the routing brings a serene isolation from other cares and sharpens focus for playing.  Though mitigated by the difficulties presented to walking, a round at BB has an excellent sense of adventure like a pine forest hike.


CC of Fairfield - though hodge-podged from 1930s floods and RTJ's subsequent re-routing work, a little-played masterpiece of Raynor imprint.  The breathtaking "Sound-side" property is an undeniable advantage, but the courses make the highest and best use of such an awesome locale. Individually there are no indifferent shots, every one holds your focus with some element of danger and opportunity and makes for a proportionally tough four, the more you want to play safely - the longest holes won't reward with fours at all with safe play, unless you have great one-putt fortune. You play to all directions of the compass and traverse all corners of the property, revisiting various sections as you play a subsequent hole.  You get semi- camouflaged peeks at upcoming holes and go by interesting perspectives of holes already played.  You feel connected to the entire round and the entire course as you play one individual hole and each one individual shot.  And after all that wonderfulness... the wind blows.  And everything changes; that which was easy becomes nearly impossible, while two and three shot holes can be reached in one fewer.The safe line disappears and becomes the one most fraught with danger while the best play - still fretful - is out over a blindness or near a beach boundary.  Little flat bunkers (often no more hazardous than a change of ground surface) that are laughably easy to carry in calm or downwind conditions become Sahara-like sentinels against four when the wind is in the face or quartering.  When conditions compound, par means nothing on a single hole or for the course. Please look at the course profile in the Architecture timeline section - it is a well done piece that might give you the added visual zest to track this one down.  The only reason  I didn't put it in the MUST SEE column is because the property is ridiculously ideal and perfect (architectural history might be greatly different if every architect worked on such a site) and three of the RTJ reworks #1 #11 and #17 are somewhat discordant with the overall experience described; ie - they are a little bland, higher on penal challenge than strategic provocation.

Garden City
Siwanoy
Apawamis

For the purposes of your quest(s) I think all three of these short small former national championship courses will offer a lot of architectural insight into what the best architecture does enduringly...provide amusement and engagement for golfers of different skills, not merely challenge their ability to swing properly.  They are completely separate and distinct in their origins and have an architectural lineage (in both design and recent restoration) of three different architectutal camps (Travis & D. Emmet for GCGC, Ross for Siwanoy, Dunn, "Members" & Strong for Apawamis).  All three were created and already morphing in the pre-game and first half of the Golden Age.  They each have a residue of the quirky, (now-charming) 1892-1901 designs and each mix a disparate amount of ridiculous-looking, sublime and straightforward shot vistas.  Even though none of the three were thought "short" in their first 20 years, they are so now, yet each retain their challenge to score via routing that absolutely goes from the green back to the tee. I listed them in about the order I would rank them, but in many ways I would place their "gotta see it" priority in the reverse order.  That would put Apawamis first on the list and I'm comfortable saying that - because that little inscrutible beast almost grins at you like a fairy-tale Rumpelstiltskin with its frustrating blinds and pitted vistas.  Most of that course feels a 1905 casino/amusement park, but everything is within an average golfer's competence.  Siwanoy has fewer visual tricks and arcane hazard, but has the most wickedly sublime slippery contour in its ultra-tiny green complexes while the unchanged routing still defies the worth of mere long-driving.  It's also beautifully suburban and is routed expertly across changing topography.  I'll leave it to others to more fully describe GCGC as i've only played it once and caddied on it twice, but I can say the coordination is the same:  all three courses developed in different ways, on three different properties, by three different architectural inspirations, all retaining the antique feel while satisfying the modern challenges.  All three demand an imaginative overall game and general competency in all areas that comprise sound play, especially play from 60 yards and in to the target.  They all represent the application of architectural design principles (though many shovels have touched all three) as they were evolving in the first rich period ca. 1898-1919.

Cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Adam Clayman

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2009, 11:19:09 PM »
Getting west of the suggested, Lawsonia, in Green Lake Wisconsin. is one that jumps to my mind worthy of study. Built in '29 it's amazing to see and learn from.

Another obtuse study would "El Conquistador" in Cortez, Colorado. A Press Maxwell, designed in '61, but, the back nine was built in '80. The difference in construction techniques is evident with the lay of the land front nine. The entire original routing took 20 years to come to fruition. Might as well throw in Forrest Richardson's The Hideout, in Monticello, Utah, since it's close by and has plenty to appreciate since it was turned into an 18 hole after being just nine for many many years.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Ryan Admussen

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2009, 11:30:07 PM »
Banff and Jasper, the par 3's alone are worth the trip

jeffwarne

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2009, 01:14:32 AM »
Mac,
If you live in Atlanta, why not start with Athens CC, Palmetto, Aiken Golf Club,Augusta CC,Camden CC?
Caladonia, True Blue etc..Legends Heathland ,Tobacco Road, Pine needles, Southern Pines etc.

Obviously you can get in quite a bit during your trip to Scotland, but some of the suggested trips might quickly bust the budget.
And if you're looking for bang for your architectural buck, I'd certainly skip Sea Island (nice place but major expensive) and focus on above options. Of course I'd skip Vegas too .
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

James Boon

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2009, 03:45:55 AM »
North Berwick...my understanding is that that courses features and holes were revolutinoary and its impact is still being felt today.  The Redan there is supposed to be one of the best in the world, correct.

Mac,

Not only is NB's Redan one of the best in the World, there is a rumour around here that it was also the Original Redan  ;) But seriously, NB is a must see!

If you are planning a trip to Scotland to study golf architecture, rather than to be able to head home and tell folks all the course you played, then I'd suggest spending some time in St Andrews to play TOC more than once. You also need to decide will this be your only trip across the pond, or can you leave a few courses out till you next head over here? Its never too early to start planning... And as Scott says, dont be afriad to head south of the border.

One of the key things about Scotland is that golf is a game for everyone. It seems as though every little village has a nine hole course at least, be it by the coast or up in the hills. So if you have half a day, head inland to one of these wee courses, pop your money in the honesty box (that many work on) and experience a different way of life.

Scott,

The way you keep singing the praises of England's courses, this country must have really hooked you! Any chance that you fancy turning out for the cricket team? Current selection policy seems to be based upon being from a country other than England that is better than us at cricket...  ;D

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Evan Fleisher

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2009, 08:33:27 AM »
I would second Adam's suggestion of Lawsonia should you be in the upper Midwest...incredible stuff.

For a looksy at the "minimalism" side of things, Wild Horse would be a good example, but pretty far to trek from where you are.

In Scotland...besides TOC and North Berwick (which are great "studies") I'd also suggest Cruden Bay and Prestwick.
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Mac Plumart

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2009, 08:35:39 AM »
Nice!

James...I was considering simply playing The Old Course for 5 days in a row and walk it and watch others play it during the time I am not playing it.  I was thinking of asking this question, but I was a little hesitant due to the fact that maybe that sounds crazy.

Also, you talk about playing courses just to tell people I played them...I am not into that, but frankly I am not sure when/if I will go back.  And, hence, my issues/concerns.  What if I go there and don't like it enough to justify the cost and all I did was play TOC.  Tough decisions, which is why I am sincerely asking for advice and guidance.  Worst case scenario, I go there and don't like its cost-benefit results.  Therefore, I have some must plays...TOC and Musselburgh are musts for me.  I am really thinking I have to play TOC more than once...maybe 5 times is overkill...but maybe not.  Along the worst case scenario line of thinking...if I go there and don't like it but see amazing and historical courses, it is worth it.  North Berwick needs to be added, I think.  And I think you are right that I need to play some smaller lesser known courses...if for nothing else than the feel.

Of course, best case scenario...I go, love it, and go back on a regular basis, and get hit all the gems over time.  Tough decisions right now.

Jeff...love it.  I will take notes of those courses.  Vegas...got to go for March Madness, golf is secondary there.  Sea Island...I have avoided it thus far due to stupid cost, but the discounts they are offering now make this a once in a lifetime opportunity for me.

Ryan...Banff and Japser..oh yeah...they are on my list!!!

Adam...Lawonia is HIGH up my list...I think it has the potential to be an over looked Gem.  El  Conquistodor...awesome.  I never heard of it...I will check it out.  Sweet!

Great stuff gusy, great stuff!!!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2009, 10:10:12 PM »
Ok...

I have been reviewing and researching a lot of the courses named in this thread.  Some are new to me, some are not.

Per his recommendation, I busted out Tom Doak's "Anatomy of a Golf Course" book and reviewed the lists he mentioned that are in the back of the book.  Although there are a bunch of courses he listed that I am clueless regarding their story or history, I have nevertheless made a spreadsheet and listed them all with notation regarding the reasons why he said they are worthy of study.

The following courses meet most of his criteria...

Crystal Downs
Merion-East
Pine Valley
Prairie Dunes
Prestwick
Royal Melbourne


Based on this and the suggestions on this thread, I think it would be important to visit Prestwick on my Scotland trip.  As it appears to be a must play/study course.  Any disagreements?

Also, many have suggested visiting lesser known courses (I like to call these hidden gems).  Any thoughts regarding these hidden gems?  Location isn't of the utmost importance as I am not afraid of traveling to see some courses.

Thansks again!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2009, 11:37:19 PM »
Kevin...You touched on an area that I need help with.  I love the idea of hit Bandon Dunes in 2010, but I am unsure if my finances and time available will make that a possibility...but I will certainly keep considering it.  Also, you touched on an area that I need serious help with.  In 2011, I am hitting The Old Course but I am unsure what else to play.  I love the North Berwick idea and I am lining up Muirfield and Musselburgh.  I am a history fanatic so Musselburgh is a must for me.  Should I make a run up to Dornoch during this trip?  Is that too much?  Is hitting Cruden Bay on the way up there a good idea as well or is it too much?  I really would love some thoughts and ideas on this trip.  I want to maximize my experience, but I don't want to over do it.

Mac

Sorry for the delay in coming back to you - have been quite busy

You could just stay in around Fife there's plenty of good golf to be had at St. Andrews besides TOC - I'd also recommned a walk around the layout on a closed Sunday. I'd certainly recommend the 3 you mentioned around East Lothian as well. Musselburgh is a short day out to boot and great fun.

Dornoch is worth the effort to get to depends on how much time you have ? I think you can get a connecting flight out of Inverness to some major connecting terminals int he UK ? Remember it gets dark so late in summer that you can tee off around 7PM and still have enough light for a quick game. When I was there a couple of guys had driven all the way up from Heathrow just to get there in a day ;D


cary lichtenstein

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Re: Golf Courses to Learn From
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2009, 06:59:44 PM »
Try to play the top 3 to 5 courses of all the top architects, living and dead. As you go along, you will learn all u need to.

Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

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