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Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Contributions
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2002, 03:20:40 PM »


Give if you want to give and don't give if you don't. There is no need to justify either way.

After this weekend, I feel my donation was a bargain.

Hopefully this thread will be deleted soon.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TJSturges

Re: Contributions
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2002, 03:30:41 PM »
I happen to know how much capital Ran has invested in this site over the years.  I'm certain he would not want this information revealed, so it won't be divulged by me.  I don't know of anyone on the planet who would have done it, and many, many folks have reaped the benefits.  Should the architects contribute cash?  Probably not (Tom D. makes a good point).  Should the people who use and enjoy the site a great deal contribute?....I certainly think so.

Rich Goodale, you make several points in your argument, and I'm sorry, but I don't think any of them are very good ones.  When you state that you think your "contributions" are worth more to the benefit of the other users thereby negating your need to contribute financially, you belittle the HUGE contributions made by one Randolph E. Morrissett III.  He's a "friend" of those studying golf architecture. He's given us a fantastic tool that we never had before he created it.  He has done this at significant personal expense.  I had told him for months that he should charge users for it on their credit card monthly.  He didn't want to do that.  His "contributors" section is his answer to defraying his costs, and I must say it isn't much to ask.  If all frequent users do this, he won't have near as much out of pocket.  As his "friends" we should want to help him (and thank him for his efforts).  I wish you (and everyone here) felt the same way.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Craig Rokke

Re: Contributions
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2002, 05:09:53 PM »
Ran & John have foot the bill for us long enough.

I don't want to log on and be greeted by ads for Viagra,Vegas bookies, voyeur cameras, or guys with hot stock tips.

A modest contribution by any architect should not be construed negatively.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Contributions
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2002, 05:28:31 PM »
Quote
Ran & John have foot the bill for us long enough.

I don't want to log on and be greeted by ads for Viagra,Vegas bookies, voyeur cameras, or guys with hot stock tips.

Sounds like Bravenet!  ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Tom_Egan

Re: Contributions
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2002, 05:39:04 PM »
Very touchy subject!

1.  This is a website like no other I have seen.  All of us who value it should nuture it.
2.  It's one of only a handful of things Ran has done correctly in his life and he should be encouraged to continue growing.
3.  Ran is wealthy beyond most dreams, but we should not freeload TOO long or our welcome may expire.
4.  VOLUNTARY contributions to support something many of us enjoy so much are not only called for but are felt to be a moral obligation by many thoughtful and considerate frequent visitors.
5.  It's easy to rationalize not contributing; it's easy because it's hogwash.  
6.  If an annual contribution equaling in dollars the par on the course you most often play seems daunting, how about thinking of it as the accumulated price of a few beers you buy to honor Ran -- one for each time you visit the site.
7.  I understand the reasoning for "management" listing contributors: a) it recognizes them, and b) it encourages others.  However, I believe it's a bad practice.  If the contributions are voluntary, they should also be anonymous except between the donor and Ran.  It's nobody's business whether or not I give.

GIVE!  It only takes a second and a few bucks.  This site may be even MORE satisfying to you if you feel you're a greater part of it than just gracing the rest of us with your wisdom.

In that vein:  Rich Goodale.  I've read a few favorable comments on the site about your brilliance.  I've even noted your words of acknowledgement.  I've also enjoyed most of your contributions to the site as thoughtful and well informed.  Your comments on this thread, however, lead me to the conclusion that your arrogance has badly outstripped your intelligence.  What a sad state, more to be pitied than criticized.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Contributions
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2002, 06:48:21 PM »
Note to Tom Doak. Hey, I thought you already owned this site. But as for free-riding it, I think you're dead wrong. Pony up a few bucks, send it in, don't tell anyone, and no one will be the wiser or care but you'll feel better privately one night and that will be worth it.

If you want something and benefit from it intellectually, someone has to foot the bill. It's either going to be Viagra and penile implants or a full-page glossy hyping some new bulldozer or the design services of a restroration specialist. I have nothing against advertisements, but it's neat to have a community-based site that pays for itself. So if you think it's worth your time to be on, then send some money in - but don't announce it. And at the same time. "The Committee" needs to make sure it respects privacy by not openly denouncing those who log on for free.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jimbo

Re: Contributions
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2002, 07:14:11 PM »
Please let this be the last post on this tasteless subject.

Do what you will.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Contributions
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2002, 07:28:20 PM »
What a dissapointing thread.  I cannot believe that a messageboard membership that prides itself on gentlemanly conduct can degenerate into a squable over money.

Thank you very much to Ran for the contributions of time and money he has put into the website.  Thank you also to the other people who have contributed with their time and money for making the website what it is.  

Thank you very much also to those who volunteer their time and money in the name of golf and golf course architecture (in ways other than on this website) for making both what they are today.

Thank you very much also to those who make volunteer contributions, (both in a monetary and particapatory sense), in many fields other than golf for making the world what it is today.

How people choose to voluteer their money and time is their own concern and based on their own personal situation, beliefs and morals.  Any "high minded" judgement of a person's charcter due to his monetary contribution to a Golf Course Architecture Website is very dissapointing.  

Thank you


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Contributions
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2002, 07:39:45 PM »
On the savaging of Rich Goodale in this matter, do I detect a note  of personal animus?
The comments about his possible failure in selling a book or SBP rejecting him, is petty in the extreme.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Contributions
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2002, 09:29:40 PM »
Bob, there is nothing personal with Rich other than what he said on his post, in fact this past nov. I envited him to play SFGC, but Rich was unable to make it. Regards
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom

Re: Contributions
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2002, 01:40:23 AM »
I have been aware of this issue for some time and while I do not want to take advantage of anybody's goodwill in pulling all this information together I have a problem in terms of contributions which I will get to in a moment.

I have enjoyed this site and it has been enormously informative for someone like myself who now regularly lambasts my golf club committee about "the spirit of golden age architecture" and urging them to stop "tinkering".  All this information is hugely appreciated.

However, in the UK in order to pay any money in dollars, as I have done recently to reserve a house on Cape Cod in June this year, I have to go to my bank and order a bankers draft which will cost me approximately $30/£20 effectively nearly doubling my contribution.  And believe me this is a competitive rate.

I know it is not an enormous amount of money but I pay enough to HSBC already in credit charges, overdraft facility, credit card insurance etal.

If a way could be found that I didn't have to go through this rigmarole and hand more money to them I would happily contribue.

Sorry to moan.

Tom
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Contributions
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2002, 02:30:46 AM »
Tom,

That is exactly why I have not paid as well.

If you look at the list there is not one person who has contributed that is not from the US.  That is because of what was stated by Tom.

Ran,

If you fix it up on the site that we could pay by credit card you would have money rolling in from Europe and Australia I am sure!!

I have sent e-mails about this before but received no reply from you about it.

Keep up the good work.

Everyone else should give Rich a break, his contributions are worth the 72 dollars in my opinion.  He makes me laugh all year round..

Cheers  Brian
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Bill Titepockets

Re: Contributions
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2002, 06:12:08 AM »
One round of golf, fellas....one round of golf.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Contributions
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2002, 06:29:27 AM »
Quote
I will contribute in 5 minutes as soon as payment can be made by Paypal. That is the easiest way to send money around on the internet.  Ran could sign up for Paypal and start accepting contributions that way...it would take less than a couple of minutes to set it up at www.paypal.com .  

I really have no excuse for not yet contributing, save laziness. But Kevin does really bring up a good point. Paypal is really the easiest way to transact on the internet, and since this is an internet site, it would make sense for this to happen. Heck, i'll even put in the legwork, and i promise my donation will be forthcoming (not the same as "the check is in the mail").
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Lads, thanks for your help
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2002, 09:11:04 AM »
Contributions are strictly voluntary and the only reason for anyone to contribute to this site is because you want to and because you want to see the site continue to run on a commercial free basis.

Numerous people have stepped forward and the generousity to date, especially considering the economic climate, has shown me that we are indeed doing something right and that we have created something of value to people.  

At the rate we are going, the actual admin of the site won't cost me money this year, which is a very nice change, and I thank everyone who has helped reduce the financial burden of providing this free access site. The notes that have accompanied the cheques are (almost  ;)) as valuable as the money itself and each letter is saved.

Two corporations have approached GolfClubAtlas.com to place ads on it, and there is a significant amount of money involved. Such monies could be used for adding additional features such as streaming videos etc. but conversely, there is non-financial upside in the enjoyment of a commercial free website. Plus, the integrity of the site could be compromised by a site sponsor if there was the perception of a conflict in interest. Still, there is no doubt that if everyone wanted to enjoy a free lunch, we would commercialize it tomorrow but that has emphatically not been the case.

At the end of each calendar year, I will make a determination as to which is the best way to go. The site must continually evolve and add features and perhaps we can raise enough money to do so based on the existing voluntary policy. Thus, the direction of the web site is largely left up to the generousity of the individual participants, and to date, it has been outstanding.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Contributions
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2002, 09:44:29 AM »
Ran

Thank you for this site.  Individuals can decide for themselves what the value of this site is for them.  I am reminded of a commercial for a major credit card.

A round of golf $50-150

A good golf book $20-80

A trip to Scotland $2500

Golf Club Atlas- PRICELESS

How do you put a price on an education that includes new friendships that I believe will last a lifetime.  THANK YOU.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Contributions
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2002, 09:46:42 AM »
GeoffreyC;

EXTREMELY well-stated, in what should probably be the last word here.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

guest

Re: Contributions
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2002, 06:19:29 PM »
Have noticed that the contributions list has been expanding :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Contributions
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2002, 06:30:00 PM »
Speaking of the contributions page, does anyone know what the little numbers from (1) through (4) next to each person's name indicates?

I'm almost afraid to find out! ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Contributions
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2002, 06:41:27 PM »
Geoffrey,

Leave it to a Yale (Golf Course) man to put it so well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

John_D._Bernhardt

Re: Contributions
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2002, 07:08:40 PM »
Now that Ran has made his appearance on this topic, I feel free to say why I contributed. I still very strongly that noone should feel any pressure to contribute. I did so because this is a wonderful site which allows us all, and especially me, to grow as friends of the game. I realize like all things in life, it does not happen by accident or for free. Therefore I wanted to contribute to assist in the continuation of the site and all the good it contributes to us individually as well as the game of golf.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Contributions
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2002, 07:43:53 PM »
"Expenditure of intellecutal capital"

"Buying Time"

I always knew there were diverse opinions on Golfclubatlas, but........
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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