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Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Course Rankings: how do cart paths affect...
« on: April 07, 2010, 04:36:09 AM »
I know there are a number of course raters on this board, and am sure many have an opinion, but facts would be good.

This is a lead on thread from Adrian's on his cart path dilemmas.
Cart paths.

how do they affect an assessment of a golf course for ranking purposes?
Are they given a point score, and if so, does the same apply to all, or does it vary?
Alternatively, what if existing paths are creviced or eroded from water damage. Is this regarded as poorly?

What is it worth to a golf course to NOT put concrete cart paths in?


Brett
@theflatsticker

Mike Sweeney

Re: Course Rankings: how do cart paths affect...
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 05:30:21 AM »

What is it worth to a golf course to NOT put concrete cart paths in?

Brett

I think Yale encapsulates much of the cart path controversy on this website. Ran made it famous in some ways with his "get rid of that damn cart path" or similar in his review:



With the storms of the last few weeks and coming out of winter, the course is walking only right now. I played over the weekend and it was a 4:05 minute round. Perfect pace as a foursome under four hours at Yale is pretty difficult due to the terrain and the greens. Now was that due to no carts keeping the wannabes off the course? Cant say for sure, but it was a Melvin kind of day.

That said, reunion weekends are coming up in May and June. In the old days Yale had caddies. So should the Class of 1960 be effectively banned during their 50 year reunion at Yale Golf Course because our little nuthouse wants to pull out the cart paths at Yale?

No. The course is for the university and that includes the lazy and unable to walk Yale GC.

In terms of rankings, who really cares if Yale is 65 or 75 on some list? It is always nice to be on but we have seen a thousand threads dissecting the numbers. The rating process is more art than science with some conspiracy theory mixed in.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 05:36:46 AM by Mike Sweeney »

jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Course Rankings: how do cart paths affect...
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2010, 11:37:52 AM »
As far as I know, there is no formal consideration given to cart paths when rating a course, but I will tell you that my ratings are occasionally influenced negatively by poor cart path location. Sure, I like minimum cart parths, and I like them to look good, be well hidden, and be in good repair. However, none of those factors will influence my rating of the course.

What I object to are paths that come into play for fairly decent shot.  The result of a mediocre to fair shot hit just a little offline or long should not be influenced by a cart path. I can think of several courses where I have dropped my rating slightly. I don't need to name the courses, because my ratings are private, but here are a few circumstances that I recall:

Very good resort course has a par 5 that doglegs a little right at the point where many players would leave their second shot. There is a cart path just left of the fairway and a street just left of that. It doen't take a very bad shot to hit the cart path and bounce into the street.

Another top 100 course has a cart path immediately behind the green on a par 4. Just beyond is a river. Hit it a little long, and you can easily bounce into the river.

Course I used to be a member of has a par 5 bordered by path and ob on the right. Fairway even slopes a little right. Your tee shot can actually land in the fairway, run right  through the light rough, across the path and out of bounds.

A PGA tour stop has a similar situation where a tee shot just right of the fairway can hit the path and kick into a yard, ob. Same tournament used to be played on a different course with a par 5 that many players tried to reach in two. Just right of the green was a path waiting to bounce your ball into a neighbor’s yard.

I could go on, but I think you got my point. All of the courses mentioned above, and a few others I didn’t mention, lost at least half point on my rating because of the situations I described. Actually, the first two courses (both in our top 100) had at least two bad path locations
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Course Rankings: how do cart paths affect...
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2010, 12:00:07 PM »
I would think it directly or indirectly affects the "aesthetics" or "walk in the Park" criteria....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Course Rankings: how do cart paths affect...
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2010, 12:09:13 PM »
There are no official "criteria" for the GOLF Magazine rankings, so it's up to the individual whether cart paths have any effect on their votes.  I suspect for the vast majority, there is little effect ... but that is because the vast majority of great courses are walkable and don't need very much in the way of paths.

If you look at the world top 100 list, I think there are only 3-4 courses on that list that have wall-to-wall cart paths ... Pebble Beach and Riviera are the two I can think of right now.

I suspect if some of the higher-ranked courses slapped in wall-to-wall paths, they would fall in the rankings.  This is not the same as saying they won't allow people to play with carts on occasion; but when you put in full paths, you change the character of a place.

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