[Tom MacWood]

Why did Colt and Mackenzie sever ties in 1923?

[Neil_Crafter]

Tom
We will never surely know the full reasons for the split, but I expect that the relationship was pretty tenuous right from the start. Immediately after the war Mackenzie was doing work in London - the London Flying Club being one example from 1919 and I reckon this is a project that the partnership might have liked to have been turned over to Colt but obviously wasn't. So my guess is that there was bickering right from the start about projects and how to divide them. I think by 1923 the split was quite mutual and that Mackenzie had not been acting as a 'partner' for quite some time - if ever.

[Sean_A]

Neil

Do you think the reverse could also be true?  Perhaps Colt didn't treat Dr Mac as a true partner.  Dr Mac did seem to be essentially isolated in the north and never really part of the in crowd.  I suspect you are right, there was likely not enough room for two bosses in one firm or perhaps even two top archies in the UK at the time of the split.  I tell you what though, Colt must have been impressed with Alwoodley to seek a partnership with Dr Mac.   

Ciao

[Neil_Crafter]

Sean
Of course the reverse could be true. Coming out of WW1 there must have been a thought that there was safety in numbers if you like, and that their success would be better guaranteed if they joined forces. The immediate years post the end of WW1 was incredibly busy as it turned out for Mackenzie - perhaps they envisaged that it would be different, who can say. From what we know Colt was impressed with both Mackenzie's knowledge and passion for architecture and Alwoodley as well.

[Tom MacWood]

Fowler, Abercromby, Simpson and Croome joined forces after the War too. I think bigger was perceived to be better, especially with the American market exploding.

Is there any new evidence of Mackenzie having any problems with customers around this time? I know over the years he and his brother had a few run ins.

Do you think it was a financial decision? Didn't Colt & Co. put their fees in one big pot and then split it?

Whatever the reason for the breakup there didn't appear to be any bad blood on either side, publicly any way. Would you agree?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Good questions. What does it say that it's not known why they broke up?  Maybe there's information in that, beyond the indication it was amicable.

What if we were talking about a marriage instead of a professional partnership?

[Sean_A]

This is somewhat related, but a bit off topic.  Why weren't the great British archies chased hard for commissions by the powers that be in the States?  I know there was a home bred crew, but it seems odd that the these old masters didn't get a lot more work in the USA.  Its also ironic that Dr Mac became the most famous of the lot in the USA considering his hierarchical position when he left England.  I am not saying it wasn't deserved, but the bulk of attention came his way and away from Colt, Fowler and Park Jr.  I think this situation still exists today so far as these lot are concerned though at least Colt has gained considerable ground in recent years.  Do folks think the California period really boosted fame and did the view of California as a Shangra-la have anything to do with it?

Ciao   

[Wayne_Kozun]

Sean - I think that they were to a large extent just before and after The Great War before home grown architects gecame more prevalent.  Colt did the two best early courses in Southern Ontario - Toronto and Hamilton and Willie Park Jr also did a lot of work around this time before he passed away in about 1925.  But there was also the issue that travel would have been so much harder back then and maybe some of these guys were not that interested in coming to the States as it would have generally been a multi-month proposition and they may have ahd commitments, either business or family, that kept them in the UK.  Perhaps Mac was just more willing to spend a lot of time in the states or travelling even farther afield - as in Aus.

[BCrosby]

Could it have been a simple matter of personalities? I can't imagine two more different.  

The dour, buttoned down solicitor Colt and the flamboyant MacKenzie who rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. For example, I can't imagine Colt offending people at the Bon Air Hotel in Augusta with his jokes, dancing and singing.

Bob





 

[Tony_Muldoon]

Bob I know you are making a quick sketch to contrast the two but I’m not happy with Dour, maybe Reserved?

Darwin wrote about his wicked sense of humour and Babington wrote of his love of a glass and good company whilst discoursing about all things outside of Golf.

That said I agree they were opposites. But then Morrison was also quite a ‘character’ and in his career Colt successfully worked as a colaborator with many men from all walks of life.

I would guess that MacKenzie headed for California because of that oldest of reasons, he didn’t like to see his name below the title.

[BCrosby]

Tony -

I had a premonition that my use of "dour" would garner a response.

I basically agree with you. It's worth noting that of that generation of leading "strategic" architects in Britain circa 1925, MacK was the only one who decamped at the time, setting up shop in California. On the theory that if you can't lick 'em, you move?

(When did Simpson relocate off-shore?)

Bob

[Paul_Turner]

Alison basically moved to the USA in 1921 or so.

I have no idea why the partnership broke up and agree that it seemed amicable.

I don't see any real geographic demarcation between their work.  Colt built several courses in the north while Mackenzie was a partner and Mackenzie did some in the south.  There was probably some collaboration on these projects such as Sunn New and Prestbury but they seem to be almost working separately.

The most blatant example I can think of are Moor Park (Colt) and Hadley Wood (Mack) which were built at similar times, using the same contractor (Franks Harris), and are only about 10 miles apart.

[BCrosby]

Alison was based in the US after 1921? I did not know that.

The other thing to remember is that almost all of the leading strategic archies in Britain at the time were members of the OCGC, most were members of the R&A, and many served with Low and Paton from time to time on the powerful R&A rules committee. The one exception to all the foregoing being A. MacK. He was never one of the boys.

Bob

[Paul_Turner]

So maybe it was the lure of America that encouraged Mack to go on his own since Colt already had Alison representing the firm over there. When did Mack first go to America?

 I was wrong about 1921...Alison actually went in 1920 so pretty soon after the war ended.

[Niall C]

Bob

MacK not being one of the boys ? did he not get retained by the R&A ?

Niall

[BCrosby]

Niall - Good question. I understand that he was retained to do the map in '23/24. (Or did the town actually retain him?) MacK was still in partnership with Colt at the time. I don't know if he was retained for other work.

Bob

[Tom MacWood]

Alison was based in the US after 1921? I did not know that.

The other thing to remember is that almost all of the leading strategic archies in Britain at the time were members of the OCGC, most were members of the R&A, and many served with Low and Paton from time to time on the powerful R&A rules committee. The one exception to all the foregoing being A. MacK. He was never one of the boys.

Bob

Willie Park lived in N. America too, as did did JD Dunn and HC Tippet.

There were quite few architects practicing in the UK and Europe who were not members of the OCGS: Mackenzie, Abercromby, Fowler, Simpson, Mackenzie Ross, Hutchison, Campbell, Hotchkin, Gannon, Cairnes and Sutherland.  

[Tom_Doak]

Tony:

Dr. MacKenzie went to America and Australia right around the time that his marriage broke up.  I am not entirely sure if it broke up BEFORE he decided to go abroad, or after his choice to do so, but it was certainly related somehow.

Colt was too classy to say anything about the partnership's demise, and MacKenzie had too much respect for Colt to say anything.  I think MacKenzie was just too independent to stay as part of a larger firm ... I don't think it was ego, so much as wanting to control his own destiny.

[Tom MacWood]

Does anyone know for sure when they agreed to become partners - before or after WWI? Mackenzie's book and Colt & Alison's book were published after the War, but were they written before the War?

[Tom_Doak]

Tom:

I think the Colt/Alison book was written quickly after the war.

Much of MacKenzie's book was adapted from a couple of presentations he had given to greenkeepers before/during the war, but I don't think he considered putting it into a book until the war was over.

[Alfonso Erhardt]

Bob Crosby,

Not really related to the topic, but since you asked, Simpson moved to Spain in 1945, living in Madrid, at the Real Club Puerta de Hierro, until the end of 1948. He retired from golf architecture when he left Spain to move back to the UK, although he still had a strong correspondence going at the time with Javier Arana.

Regards,

Alfonso

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