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Ed Oden

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What was the first residential development course?
« on: July 18, 2009, 07:26:00 PM »
I played a course this week that was designed in 1926.  Every hole weaved its way through a residential development, almost always with houses on both sides.  I know that golf and housing have long been tied together.  But I can't think of another course of this vintage that I have played where the housing wasn't pretty much limited to the course's perimeter.  I just assumed meandering residential courses were a modern phenomenon.  So, what was the first housing development course not on a self-contained tract?

Ed
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Bill_McBride

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2009, 07:28:14 PM »
Quote from: Ed Oden on July 18, 2009, 07:26:00 PM
I played a course this week that was designed in 1926.  Every hole weaved its way through a residential development, almost always with houses on both sides.  I know that golf and housing have long been tied together.  But I can't think of another course of this vintage that I have played where the housing wasn't pretty much limited to the course's perimeter.  I just assumed meandering residential courses were a modern phenomenon.  So, what was the first housing development course not on a self-contained tract?

Ed

Pasatiempo wasn't far behind.  Marion Hollins clearly laid it out as a residential course, it's now choked with houses all around.  It's such a great layout it doesn't bother you too much, but it is definitely a residential course that was designed, I believe, in 1928 and opened in 1929.
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Anthony Gray

Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2009, 07:34:54 PM »



   Pinehurst in the south?

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Wayne_Kozun

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2009, 07:42:49 PM »
St Georges in Toronto is about the same vintage as are the homes along at least part of the front nine.
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Tom_Doak

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2009, 08:02:57 PM »
Not 100% sure of this because I've never been there, but I think it was Huntercombe, England, c. 1900.

For certain, St. George's Hill predates any of the courses mentioned so far.
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DMoriarty

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2009, 08:06:45 PM »
A number of courses from shortly after 1910 were built as part of a real estate development, including Merion East.  
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mike_beene

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2009, 08:09:26 PM »
Need to brush up on my dates,but Pebble,Bel-Air and Pine Needles all have some housing.Bel-Air like Pastiempo doesn't qualify for this question because the houses are on the perimeter,and thus no holes with housing on both sides or within course(although #6 at Pastiempo may have a house on right ?)
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RSLivingston_III

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2009, 08:11:13 PM »
It seems like this came up in a thread some time ago. Of course it would have been a contender for oldest in the US. I think Tom has it.
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Mitch Hantman

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2009, 09:22:22 PM »
I believe the earliest I know of in the US is Mountain Lake in Lake Wales, Fl. - 1916
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Ed Oden

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2009, 09:43:12 PM »
Thanks for the responses.  I have looked at all the courses mentioned so far on Google Earth.  Many are actually self-contained except in very isolated spots.  Of those that fit the profile of housing on both sides of most holes, St. George's Hill (1912) seems to be the earliest.  So Tom Doak is the leader in the clubhouse.
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George_Bahto

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2009, 10:24:55 PM »
Fred Ruth - Mountain Lake first contacted Macdonald in 1913-1914
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Mike_Cirba

Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2009, 10:53:17 PM »
Ed,

Were you at Brigantine GC?
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Ed Oden

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2009, 12:39:44 AM »
Quote from: MCirba on July 18, 2009, 10:53:17 PM
Ed,

Were you at Brigantine GC?

No, it was Sedgefield CC in Greensboro, NC.  A terrific Ross design restored/renovated by Kris Spence and the home of the Wyndam Championship.
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Tony_Muldoon

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2009, 03:44:15 AM »
Quote from: Ed Oden on July 18, 2009, 09:43:12 PM
Thanks for the responses.  I have looked at all the courses mentioned so far on Google Earth.  Many are actually self-contained except in very isolated spots.  Of those that fit the profile of housing on both sides of most holes, St. George's Hill (1912) seems to be the earliest.  So Tom Doak is the leader in the clubhouse.

Ed Tom is right about Huntercombe. Park hoped to make a fortune by building the course and selling plots ofland around it.  Due to transport difficulties the scheme wasn't a success.   Walton Heath and Sunningdale were also deveoped as a way of raising the land prices for housing. So how much housing has to be built around the fairways to qualify for your defintion of a "residential development" course?
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Lester George

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2009, 01:56:43 PM »

Abenakee, Bidderford, Pool Maine 1894 or so.  Oldest one I have worked on.

Lester
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Dan Moore

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2009, 02:27:22 PM »
Flossmoor/Homewood in the Chicago area had a real estate component.  When land for the course was purchased they also obtained a large parcel across the street to the west for homes.  This was in 1899-1900.  However homes would not have been located on the course so this may not meet the real estate deveolpment course criteria. 
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Greg Holland

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2009, 03:29:10 PM »
No, it was Sedgefield CC in Greensboro, NC.  A terrific Ross design restored/renovated by Kris Spence and the home of the Wyndam Championship.
[/quote]

Ed you might have seen the very cool routing map in the clubhouse -- this development was originally going to have 2 courses:  the Red and the Blue.  I believe Ross had actually started laying out holes on the other course (and Kris Spence and his team found some tee boxes, etc), but the Great Depression stopped the second course.
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Stephen Brown

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2009, 03:58:54 PM »
Quote from: Ed Oden on July 19, 2009, 12:39:44 AM
Quote from: MCirba on July 18, 2009, 10:53:17 PM
Ed,

Were you at Brigantine GC?

No, it was Sedgefield CC in Greensboro, NC.  A terrific Ross design restored/renovated by Kris Spence and the home of the Wyndam Championship.

Ed:

I think that the Ross Course at Greensboro CC predated Sedgefield....Kris Spence can probably shed some light on this.  If memory serves me, the Irving Park section of Greensboro was designed by the designer of Central Park in NYC.

Steve
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Ed Oden

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2009, 04:04:20 PM »
Greg, no I didn't see the drawing in the clubhouse.  I'll make a point to look for it next time I am there.

I accept that the courses mentioned in this thread had or were intended to have a real estate component.  But when I pull them up on Google Earth, most appear to have housing largely on the perimeter of the course.  What I am talking about is where the course runs THROUGH the development.  Here is an aerial view of Sedgefield:



Do any of the courses already mentioned ramble through a residential development to this degree?  Are there others like this that pre-date 1926?

Ed
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Greg Holland

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2009, 04:15:59 PM »
Ed,

Greensboro Country Club is celebrating its centennial.  The town course by Ross is wedged into the Irving Park neighborhood. 
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Kris Spence

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2009, 05:25:19 PM »
Greg, the original Irving Park Cs. was designed around 1909 occuping only the block around the clubhouse with 9 holes.   Ross began his work at GCC in 1924 remodeling the holes around the clubhouse and adding new holes 2, 9 thru 11.  He built holes 3 thru 8 in 1927 which included the only internal housing track between holes 5,6 & 7.  All of the drawings were done in 1924. 

Sedgefield was designed in 1924 and opened in 1926.  Early in the design phase the concept of adding a housing component was introduced which forced changes to the original routing that Ross intended to use.  As a result, several of the best holes on the course were created to make room for the  streets and housing lots.  As a matter of fact, the more unorthodox holes like 2,4 and 11 with their severely sloping fairways came from this change.  I discovered sketches on the back of the field drawings for these holes showing his original idea.

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Niall C

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Re: What was the first residential development course?
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2009, 07:20:44 AM »
Not sure if this none counts but Kelvinside Golf Course in Glasgow (NLE) was a 9 hole course laid out by Old Tom and Willie Fernie in 1895. The course was on part of an estate which had been partly developed for housing and membership to the course was restricted to "residenters". The course subsequently fell into disuse and was later developed for housing. I've yet to see anything which suggests that the course was used in any marketing literature for promoting the housing and certainly there was no housing immediately adjacent to the course.

Niall
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