[John Moore II]

On a recent trip to the great north, I played one round at Moose Run. The Creek course was ranked #1 in the state of Alaska by Golf Digest and was also ranked the 49th most difficult course in America by GD. The course was designed by Robin Nelson (can't say I have ever heard of him) and opened in 2000. The course makes good use of the gently rolling land and crosses the Ship Creek on 3 holes. The creek was not used as well as it perhaps could have been, but I heard while playing that since it serves as a natural habitat to a large number of animals, the course had to be designed with large buffer areas surrounding the creek. Two holes also play through old US Army rock quarrys and I think those two holes are the two best on the course. The course plays to 7324 yards from the back tees, but to me, it didn't really seem exceptionally long. I felt like this course suffered only from the fact that they have a nearly non-existant growing season in Alaska. The fairways and greens were somewhat spotty and not grown in very well. If this course was built in a place where it was easier to get the grass to grow in fully, I feel like it would be an exceptional place.

(I Must appologize for the lack of captions on the pictures, something is screwing up on the posting screen and not allowing me to scroll down and type very well. Hopefully this will be fixed and I can put in some captions)

Hole #1 (which I don't have a picture of) is a fairly easy starting hole, 409 yards from the back tee with a generous fairway. A tree in the left center of the fairway determines placement off the tee. A shot to the left of the tree will give a much shorter route into the green and a more open shot, however, this is a much more narrow target area. The green slopes from back to front and falls off on all sides. A good starting hole.

Hole #2 is a mid-length par 5, 537 yards from the back tee. This hole is a reachable dogleg left that plays to a green that falls away to the right.
 


Hole 3



Hole 4




Hole 5




Hole 6



Hole 7

Hole 8




Hole 9





Hole 10




Hole 11





Hole 12




Hole 13



Hole 14




Hole 15

Hole 16



Hole 17



Hole 18

[Kalen Braley]

John,

Thanks for posting these up...the course looks to be in a very nice setting and in pretty decent shape given thier short season up there.

Looks like the difficulty would come from the somehwat narrow corridors where the holes have been routed thru the trees.

Kalen

[Anthony Gray]

 Who would have thought that Alaska would have such a nice course. Kalen makes a great assesment.

  How did they come up with the name?...................

  Anthony

[John Moore II]

Not sure where they came up with the name. I did leave out one picture though where I took one of a moose on the course.

And as far the trees go, in most cases they are not in play, the holes are fairly wide. Hole 4 has a clump of trees directly in the middle of the fairway and 5 is somewhat narrow, but for the most part, I would say there is normally 80+ yards between the trees on any given hole. And most of the fairways are 40+ yards as well.


I guess I just didn't see what made it so difficult. The course rating is 78 and like I said, GD rated it as one of the 50 hardest in America. I just don't see it. There are limited bunkers, both fairway and greenside, and if I may be so bold, I think the bunkers are basically out of play for people playing the correct tees. In many cases, most of the bunkers on the inside corner of the dogleg provided nothing more than aimpoints for me, just rip the ball directly over them. I just don't see it being that hard. Perhaps a course rater could tell me how these rating numbers are determined.

[Anthony Gray]

  John,

  Lets see the moose. I love stuff like that on the course.

  Thanks ... Anthony

 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Anthony,

Photo #17

http://www.nelsonhaworth.com/portfolio_viewer.php?show=25&pic=image1

Lot better name than using photo #19 for inspiration.

[John Moore II]

OK Anthony, here is the moose.



Kind of hard to see, it was pelting rain on us at this point. By the time we got to the 4th tee, it had turned to rain mixed with sleet.

[Kalen Braley]

JKM,

What does it get on the Doak Scale??

[John Moore II]

JKM,

What does it get on the Doak Scale??

I don't know. I've never seen a copy of the Confidential Guide to know the rating numbers. What would you rate Thanksgiving Point? I would say its in the same range as that.

[Kalen Braley]

JKM,

What does it get on the Doak Scale??

I don't know. I've never seen a copy of the Confidential Guide to know the rating numbers. What would you rate Thanksgiving Point? I would say its in the same range as that.

JKM,

Here is the Doak Scale:

1: Very basic course; clear architectural malpractice and/or poor maintenance. Avoid even if desperate for a game.

2: mediocre course with little architectural interest, but nothing really horrible. (Play it in a scramble and drink a lot of beer).

3: about the level of the avg. course in the world.

4: modestly interesting; with at least a couple of distinctive holes or some scenic interest. Also reserved for some very good courses which are much too short or narrow to provide sufficient chalenge for low-handicappers.

5: Well above the avg. course, but the middle of this scale. A good course if in the vicinity, but not worth setting aside a day to visit.

6: A very good course, definitely worth a game, but not necessarily worth a special trip to see. It shouldn't disappoint you.

7: An excellent course, worth checking out if within 50-100 miles. You can expect sound design; interesting hiles; good conditions and a pretty setting; if not necessarily anything unique to the world of golf.

8: One of the very best in the region and worth a special trip to see. Could have some drawbacks, but will make up for them with something really special.

9: Outstanding course. One of the best in the world with no weaknesses. Should see in your lifetime.

10: Nearly perfect. If you skipped even one hole you would miss something worth seeing. MUST see these courses to appreciate how good golf architecture can get.


I don't think that course is up to TP's standards based on the pics you sent...but pics can be decieving.  As for TP, I would put it at 5.5 - 6 IMO.

[John Moore II]

Given the rating figures, I might say this one is a 5.5 or 6. Now, I would say that TP is a 6.5 or 7 maybe. Though I am perhaps skewed by the fact that these two courses are very out of the ordinary from what I am used to in the NC Sandhills and Piedmont.


***Let me modify this: Given some more information on another thread, I need to change what I put here. Thanksgiving Point is the better of the two, by a small margin. However, being told that CCNC Dogwood was rated a 6 and Pine Needles would be rated no higher than a 7, TP is a 5.5 at best. Moose Run I think would fall in at a 5, the key difference between it and TP being the conditioning of the course. I felt the shot values were nearly the same on each and they were each mostly the same on scenery and design elements. The only hole at TP that I felt was worlds better than what I saw at Moose Run was #13, the par 5. Other than that, the holes compare much the same.

[Jason McNamara]

5: Well above the avg. course, but the middle of this scale. A good course if in the vicinity, but not worth setting aside a day to visit.

That's an incomplete quote; the second sentence as I have it closes with the admonition "...don't spend another day away from home to see it, unless your home is in Alaska."

[Brad Fleischer]

JKM,

I believe Nelson does alot of courses overseas. I think but don't quote me he did ravenwood in upstate NY, a layout that is pretty well regarded from what I have heard. I also know he did a bunch of courses in Hawaii but the names escape me right now.

Brad

[John Moore II]

5: Well above the avg. course, but the middle of this scale. A good course if in the vicinity, but not worth setting aside a day to visit.

That's an incomplete quote; the second sentence as I have it closes with the admonition "...don't spend another day away from home to see it, unless your home is in Alaska."

That really made me laugh, I read that same passage last night looking for what some courses were rated on the Doak scale. Too funny considering the course in question actually is in Alaska.

JKM,

I believe Nelson does alot of courses overseas. I think but don't quote me he did ravenwood in upstate NY, a layout that is pretty well regarded from what I have heard. I also know he did a bunch of courses in Hawaii but the names escape me right now.

Brad

Yeah, but I think its safe to say that he hasn't designed any in the NC Sandhills, where I have played the majority of my golf.

[Norbert P]

 As a small tike I used to fish for trout in Ship Creek and pick wild currants there.  Good memories.

Is Sarah Palin going to get the job as the beverage cart girl?  I'd give her a tip.            hey, hey, Hey!  Watch it!


"I walked down that boulder road,
Through a child's eye saw places where I used to go.
Where I crawled barefoot with a fishing pole
To the rock that overlooked that steelhead hole
But it's true--silver river turning blue."
   IA

[John Moore II]

As a small tike I used to fish for trout in Ship Creek and pick wild currants there.  Good memories.

Is Sarah Palin going to get the job as the beverage cart girl?  I'd give her a tip.            hey, hey, Hey!  Watch it!

You never know, she might take that job, now that she'll be unemployeed after the end of the month. Though I think she's take a job at a course in Wasilla before this one. Might be a good place for her, get away from it all, you know.

[Derek Dirksen]

Here is a link to Robin Nelson's website.

http://www.nelsonhaworth.com/about.php

[John Moore II]

Here is a link to Robin Nelson's website.

http://www.nelsonhaworth.com/about.php

I notice they built a course in China that is over 8400 yards. The longest course in the world supposedly. Thats pretty long, methinks.

[Chris_Blakely]

John,

Thanks for the pictures.  Looks like a great setting.   Also enjoyed the picture of the moose, reminded me of a round in New Hapshire when a bear ran into the woods from one of the outter holes.

Chris

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