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Melvyn Morrow


Having seen last night a light comedy programme which mentioned “Ley Lines” I wondered if any architects actually incorporates them within their designs? On the other hand, are they just a subject for those who love divining rods, long beards wear funny hats and seem to drive Land Rovers?

It is a serious question, does anyone use these things in surveying the ground/site of a potential course or has any client asked that this type of survey in used?

Melvyn


PS On a less serious note, yet still showing due respect to the unknown (the occult), my guess is that no such survey was undertaken at the Castle Course, nor was a mummified cat buried under the 18th Green to pacify Mother Earth for the attack on her when building the course. Players beware and please show due reverence to the Old Lady selling sprigs of heather at the clubhouse.  Buy some to protect you from the course. Those with distance devices suggest you buy two or three just to keep on the right side of the unknown. You do not want to be doomed in Scotland.

PPS I wonder if Ley Lines are at the centre of the Merion debate by not undertaking this type of survey when the course was routed. May have saved the planet, well GCA.com, if one had been taken and the survey signed. However, makes you wonder who would have surveyed the course incorporating these mystery lines of energy,. No, it does not, please not another debate to see who routed the ley lines of Merion.  One blessing worth noting, they will not be found on any passenger Shipping manifest from Europe, GB&I or USA.   


Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “Ley Lines” in GCA - A serious question for Designers
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2009, 04:19:22 PM »
I can only answer NO Melvyn, I don't even know what a Ley Line is.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Peter Pallotta

Re: “Ley Lines” in GCA - A serious question for Designers
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2009, 04:34:15 PM »
Melvyn - if you looked up "interesting question" in the dictionary, this would be it. How neat would it be to discover that the architects of old were unconsciously following ancient/traditional footpaths that connected important sites/meeting places when they were choosing where to put golf courses and how to route them (and that some modern-day practitioners are following suit).  I don't even have to get all mystical about it -- and assume that these ley lines form (spiritual) energy grids -- to find the whole idea very charming indeed. But alas, I doubt that any working architect today will admit to such a thing. Bad for business and all that...

Peter

« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 04:42:18 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “Ley Lines” in GCA - A serious question for Designers
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2009, 04:40:28 PM »
Definition from Earth's Mysteries (a google result):

"Ley Lines

"Ley lines, or Leys, are alignments of ancient sites stretching across the landscape. Ancient sites or holy places may be situated in a straight line ranging from one or two to several miles in length. A ley may be identified simply by an aligned placing of marker sites, or it might be visible on the ground for all or part of its length by the remnants of an old straight track. "

Painswick is the course where I have most felt the influence of some ancient culture or civilization.  I guess it's the ever present Iron Age fort where a third of the holes are laid out, the ramparts that must be surmounted, and the presence of the Beacon atop it all, overlooking the entire region incuding a view of the Bristol channel and bridge.

It's a mystical place.  There must be Ley lines radiating out from the Beacon, along with the mystical #6, one of Henry Longhurst's favorite par 3s in the world.

Good stuff Melvyn!

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “Ley Lines” in GCA - A serious question for Designers
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2009, 07:40:39 PM »
I don't know if this counts.... but in the Tillinghast books, he mentions how he likes to build on sites with historical significance.

A few examples:

Quaker Ridge: The George Washington Tree: supposedly where he slept with his troops on his way to a revolutionary battle.
Winged Foot: He mentions in writing how site was part of James Fenimore Cooper's property.
San Fransisco Golf Club: The Duel hole: site of a famous duel between a senator and supreme court justice.

There was also mention of something at a course in Mexico City, and was always excited to find arrowheads and stuff like that... again not exactly ancient ruins, but nothing on record in this country is really "ancient"!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: “Ley Lines” in GCA - A serious question for Designers
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2009, 08:14:24 PM »
Melvyn:

Years ago when we were first doing planning work at Archerfield, I suggested to John Ashworth that we ought to get a backhoe out there for a couple of days and dig some holes, just to make certain there wasn't rock or heavy soil close underneath that would spoil the budget for the project.

So we got a backhoe.  The first couple of holes we dug were just sand, but on the third try we hit a big pile of rocks!  And then another!  It was actually like a seam of big stones about 100 yards inland from the beach.  [Later, I found out that it was probably the old beach line from generations ago.]

Anyway, one of John's friends was very into Ley lines and natural energy fields and other odd subjects, and after we dug and hit the rocks the second time, he said he could tell us where they were by divining them.  I was extremely doubtful, but I didn't want to dig 500 more random holes, so I pointed at the ground and asked what was right there, and he said the rocks were two feet deep ... and they were.  I pointed about four more times, and he correctly told me if there were any rocks, and if so, how deep.  So then I just used his advice after that, and found that the problem was fairly limited.  I have no idea how he could predict any of it, but it worked.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: “Ley Lines” in GCA - A serious question for Designers
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 08:32:00 PM »

Tom

I did not expect much response re the Ley Lines but had hoped for a report like yours. I don’t have the touch and get zero, but true to form I have seen Diviners hit water time after time and give a good analysis of what to expect. Cheaper and faster that using a Geophysics Team.

It should not work, I cannot understand how it works, but it seems too. One man with a couple of ‘L’ rods just should not work, but like you, it did. Am I a believer, well lets say I’d use one again.

Many thanks for your all your comments

Melvyn

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: “Ley Lines” in GCA - A serious question for Designers
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2009, 09:42:07 AM »
Tom/Melvyn

I too have had some experience with water diviners when I used to mange an old 500 acre MOD site in Cumbria. The infrastructure was so old therewas no reliable plans as to where the undergrounds pipes were but one of the guys on the crew was handy at divining and we used him all the time. Much quicker and dirt cheap.

Niall

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