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Ran Morrissett

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Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« on: June 26, 2009, 01:45:30 PM »
There is no joy in posting a disappointing updated course profile on the current status of the Cascades course, especially for someone like me who grew up in Virginia where this Flynn design was the state's one claim to a course of world renown.

When I first saw it in the late 1970s, I confess to not thinking that it lived up to its hype, primarily because I questioned just how good the front nine was with a highway bordering more than half its holes. With time and twenty plus more rounds, I came to admire holes like the 2nd and 7th with their sloping fairways. The 9th was always a wild and tumbling hole and the 4th gained appreciation for being a real card wrecker. The striking back nine with its seclusion in a river valley and its natural water hazards was always full of appeal. Throw in its unique 3-5-5-3 finish and the course seemed to be a standout and remind one of no other course. A spot in the back of GOLF's world top 100 seemed about right.

After my last visit in 2003, there was no doubt the bunkers needed work as they were dull and lifeless with drainage issues. Thanks to a Master Plan prepared by Wayne Morrison and Tom Paul, work was done in house to successfully reverse years of bunker neglect. However, nothing else has gone particularly well. Creeks that were once open have been buried under ground at the 5th, 6th, and 10th holes, in particular ruining the 6th. Fairways like the 7th and 12th are stupidly narrow and the course still features some of the worst cart path placements in America (e.g. the inside of the dogleg 17th). Grand views down the valley are obscured by unchecked tree growth.

The good news is that the Resort has an excellent Master Plan in hand that shows them the way forward. In addition, we aren't talking about gobs of money that needs to be spent either. Unfortunately, while the Homestead traded ownership hands in the past two years, my general sense is that no work is being contemplated at present. That's a shame for the Grand Dame of Mountain Courses. It still produces great champions as Bart Bradley found out to his dismay  ;D but the course needs help if it is ever to deserve a return to being among Flynn's most heralded designs.

In the meanwhile, clubs that have acted wisely like Lancaster deserve the spotlight that once shown on the Cascades.

Cheers,

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2009, 11:55:57 PM »
Ran, like you, the Cascades has always had a special place in my golfing memories since it was the first course of any real note that I played.  So it is sad to hear the current state of things.  It is inconceivable to me that anyone could bury the creek on 6.  That was the defining feature of the entire hole.  No creek equals no interest there.  Too bad.

Ed

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2009, 03:24:06 PM »
Ran:

Are you using speech recognition technology?  Better teach your software the difference between "shown" and "shone"!

Sorry to hear about Cascades.  I played Lancaster on Thursday and it was even better than I remembered.

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2009, 10:29:26 PM »
I started a thread 2+ years ago (Mar/Apr '07) re: The Cascades Course that drew some pretty good comments.  I was underwhelmed by many of the things that Ran recounted above.  I don't know how to find it but both Messrs. Morrison and Paul weighed in so it's got some "cred" despite the author.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2009, 10:52:41 PM »
It saddens me to hear about the decline of the Cascades course. I never really thought it lived up to its reputation as being the best mountain course in the country but it sure was good when I played it many years ago. I felt at that time it needed some work, especially the old run down clubhouse, but I hoped it would have been done well.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jason McNamara

Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2009, 11:18:21 PM »
I started a thread 2+ years ago (Mar/Apr '07) re: The Cascades Course that drew some pretty good comments.  I was underwhelmed by many of the things that Ran recounted above.  I don't know how to find it but both Messrs. Morrison and Paul weighed in so it's got some "cred" despite the author.

A search for [cascades flynn] found this thread on the second page of results:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,28718.0/

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 07:42:25 AM »
Ran:

  Thanks for another informative profile.  Based on your photos, opening the creek back up would really compliment an already strong course.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2009, 10:59:49 AM »
I offer this not as a criticism but rather for discussion purposes, having never met either gentleman:  Why would one of the great American courses adopt a master plan by two amateur golf course architetural enthusiasts, particularly when gifted professionals go begging for work?

Mike
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 11:16:27 AM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Matt_Ward

Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 11:30:15 AM »
I appreciate Ran's comments because in a broader overview it's critical to keep tabs on how any top tier course is doing.

Too many times -- the elite courses are often given deferential treatment and "assumed" to always have the goods to merit their high placement. Unfortunately, when you have a closed door situation it prevents more deserving courses from moving up.

I can only hope others will bear in mind that courses that have been good / great in the past don't always hold to that highest of standards in a continuous way and when that occurs should be moved lower to make way for others that do.

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 12:11:49 PM »
I offer this not as a criticism but rather for discussion purposes, having never met either gentleman:  Why would one of the great American courses adopt a master plan by two amateur golf course architetural enthusiasts, particularly when gifted professionals go begging for work?

Mike

Mike:

The Cascades has a very complete record of its history..perhaps, as much as any other course..in both word and photo.  The two "amateurs" simply used the historical record to show the resort how to restore the course to Flynn's design...in the purest meaning of "restoration".  I think anyone who would take the time to compile the history could tell the resort what changes had occurred to the course over time...amateur or professional.  So, I think, your criticism is unfair.

Bart

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2009, 12:42:32 PM »
Bart,

What part of "I offer this not as a criticism" did you not understand?

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2009, 12:57:37 PM »
Bart,

What part of "I offer this not as a criticism" did you not understand?

Mike

Mike..sorry...it seemed like criticism anyway (despite the disclaimer).

You asked for discussion..and so I tried to discuss.

Bart

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2009, 01:58:49 PM »
The updated profile is very insighful.

The Cascades is still a wonderful golf course.  Listening to Ran's suggestions would place it back near the top of the best.

WW

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2009, 04:08:49 PM »
I offer this not as a criticism but rather for discussion purposes, having never met either gentleman:  Why would one of the great American courses adopt a master plan by two amateur golf course architetural enthusiasts, particularly when gifted professionals go begging for work?

Mike

Mike,

I think Wayne has more historic information on Flynn than just about anyone could...I'd guess that includes a fair bit of original Cascades drawings and plans...in the hands of a professional builder, which Tom and Wayne had nothing to do with I don't think, what more do you need if your goal is a true restoration to the original architects intent? I have no idea who the builder was or why certain changes were made to the original holes such as creek piping etc...

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2009, 04:28:36 PM »
Thanks, Jim.

I'm just guessing it's no small leap from having documentation to creating a master plan.  I must admit I have no concept of what a "master plan" is, but I assume it involves design, budgeting, implementation and maintenance, all  disciplines seemingly unique to the professional architect.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2009, 04:38:41 PM »
You're probably right. I spoke to Tom and Wayne about their relationship with The Homestead either early in the process or before it even began and got the impression that they were providing architectural data and not much else...the company/superintendent and maybe the builder were handling the actual budget which certainly speaks for items like piping under certain creek runs...I don't want to speak too much for them because it has been a couple of years at least, but that is my memory.


mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2009, 04:47:51 PM »
 I saw the exhaustive report that Wayne and Tom did. I would call it archeology.
AKA Mayday

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2009, 08:04:54 PM »

That's a shame for the Grand Dame of Mountain Courses.

It still produces great champions as Bart Bradley found out to his dismay  ;D


Bart,

I feel your pain !

Nothing makes you want to win the next match more than Ran rubbing it in


but the course needs help if it is ever to deserve a return to being among Flynn's most heralded designs.

In the meanwhile, clubs that have acted wisely like Lancaster deserve the spotlight that once shown on the Cascades.



Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2009, 09:48:26 PM »
Did Wayne and Tom recommend piping that creek on #6?

Bart Bradley

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Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2009, 10:37:11 PM »
Did Wayne and Tom recommend piping that creek on #6?

Of course not...they recommended restoring the course...The creek has been piped for several years.

Bart

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2009, 10:46:11 PM »

That's a shame for the Grand Dame of Mountain Courses.

It still produces great champions as Bart Bradley found out to his dismay  ;D


Bart,

I feel your pain !

Nothing makes you want to win the next match more than Ran rubbing it in


but the course needs help if it is ever to deserve a return to being among Flynn's most heralded designs.

In the meanwhile, clubs that have acted wisely like Lancaster deserve the spotlight that once shown on the Cascades.


Pat:

You don't know the half of it.

We were all square going to 18...Ran putts the ball...it rolls up to the edge...my son writes down his score...Tom Paul says "wait 10 seconds" and the darn ball falls into the cup after about 5 seconds of sitting on the lip to beat me 1UP.  ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Congrats Ran ...I'll get you next time  ;D...I hope that you give a detailed analysis of our match at Durban when you do the Durban course profile (but somehow I suspect you'll claim amnesia about that one).

I really think that the Cascades could be a great course again....and I hope that the threads and profile on this website will help lead to the proper restoration of the course.

Bart

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2009, 11:02:55 PM »
Did Wayne and Tom recommend piping that creek on #6?

Of course not...they recommended restoring the course...The creek has been piped for several years.

Bart


So how much of their master plan has been performed.  Just wondering, have never been there but always wanted to.

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Updated Cascades Course profile is now posted
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2009, 06:54:11 AM »
Bill:

Almost none of the master plan was implemented...the only part undertaken was a bunker restoration and this was incomplete.  Certainly, the bunkers that were restored look and play better.
Bart

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