[Anthony Gray]

  Playing Ability?

 Travel Experience?

 Your Library?

 ??

  Anthony

 

[PCCraig]

  Playing Ability?

 Travel Experience?

 Your Library?

  ?

  Anthony

 

When you have enough knowledge to know you know nothing about golf.

[Peter Pallotta]

Anthony -

this is one of those questions where I'd bet the golfer who took up the game as a youngster (maybe most on this board) and the one who took up the game later in life (me, in my mid-30s) can barely have a conversation or a meaningful discussion -- i.e. the former I think takes so much of what he knows for granted, sees so much more (sub-consciously) and takes that information in so much more quickly, than I do or can that we'd be talking apples and oranges.  Experience -- time spent on the golf course, playing -- is by far the most important factor in golfing IQ, but it's a kind of IQ that isn't often or easily talked about, because it long ago became second nature for those who have it.

When I was 10 years old, I took classical guitar lessons for about a year.  I've rarely picked up the guitar in decades. Meanwhile, in my mid-to-late twenties, I picked up the clarinet again (after playing it in highschool) -- and I've been picking it up regularly and actually trying to practice it a couple of times a week for a decade and a half now -- and yet, I'm still a better classical guitar player than I am a jazz clarinettist. The guitar is "in my fingers" in a way I'm not sure the clarinet ever will be.

Peter

[Mark Pritchett]

Certainly not playing in a cart!

[Melvyn Morrow]

Pat

Is that your final answer?

Do you need to phone a friend, ask the other members of GCA.com or perhaps take 50-50 before you finally decide?


You know what they say a little knowledge can be dangerous. Anthony proves that point I fear, alternatively that could also apply to me, in fact all on GCA.com.

I feel these topics by Anthony is a real cry for help, but is his actual need not that of just seeking and wanting to be loved not just at home but on GCA.com as well as on the golf course.

He ventures into the ether with real determination to understand the underling reason why the New World allowed the import of Golf, when Baseball/Football was flourishing in its early forms.

Mark, thanks for the opening as I did not want to start the topic off with carts, but as you have well I just can't resist.

Anthony has become totally confused and believes that the cart on a course is not there to aid those that need one but a platform for in-depth debates and conversations. But during this whole process he misses out on the landscape and the quality of GCA with the its clever design features, believing that all the answers can be found on a cart.

The following is Anthony Gray’s understanding of History.

Troy did not fall because of the Trojan Horse, it was due to the infamous cart from Hell.

Boadicea’s chariot was in fact a two-seater cart converted to four standing with scythes on all four wheels – if the first two miss (as in the Gladiator film) then the rear tow will not. Her failure (he believes) was the result that she ran out of gas at St Albans rendering the cart useless.

Harold at the Battle of Hastings did not die from an arrow in the eye released by a Norman bowman but from a drunk on a cart (Saturday afternoon) when it went over a bump at speed releasing a quiver of arrows in the air, one of which penetrated the eye of Harold.

Drake at Plymouth was not playing bowls, but Cart Bowls and had not finished his nine holes, so delayed setting sail.

The most interesting and latest in a long line of misinformation released by our Mr Gray is that Cartier is someone who rides a cart and must not be confused with a quality jeweller.

Pleased do not be confused by his question “What factors determine your Golf IQ”. Mr Gray is just seeking information to help him in his forthcoming cart debate later this year in the UK.

Melvyn

[Charlie Goerges]

Anthony, I agree with Peter. If you're going to look at it like the standard IQ tests (from what I've read, I've never taken one) then you're going to be measuring the amount of exposure to the game and the breadth of knowledge of how the game is played. The people who've been playing the longest (and especially those who started the youngest) are going to have the highest IQ.

The last two things that you mention are affected by the "Golf IQ" but, as in real life IQs, go far beyond IQ to scholarship. I think GCA is scholarship, as is travel, as is the game's history. These are things that a high golf IQ can give one a head-start on, but the real determining factor is the desire to learn about them, the desire to experience them, and to share them with others. The beauty of the game is that you don't necessarily need to be a good player to enjoy it. The beauty of the scholarship aspect of golf is that your playing ability has absolutely no impact on how good a scholar of the game you can be.

So perhaps golf IQ is not what you're wondering about. Maybe you should look at it as scholarship of the game of which a practitioner would be a golf philosopher, a lover of the wisdom of golf.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Anthony

The correct upbringing in a golfing family with those long lists of family golfing values going back centuries. 

Melvyn

PS Also by touching 'The Spirit of The Game'

[PCCraig]

Pat

Is that your final answer?

Do you need to phone a friend, ask the other members of GCA.com or perhaps take 50-50 before you finally decide?


You know what they say a little knowledge can be dangerous. Anthony proves that point I fear, alternatively that could also apply to me, in fact all on GCA.com.

I feel these topics by Anthony is a real cry for help, but is his actual need not that of just seeking and wanting to be loved not just at home but on GCA.com as well as on the golf course.

He ventures into the ether with real determination to understand the underling reason why the New World allowed the import of Golf, when Baseball/Football was flourishing in its early forms.

Mark, thanks for the opening as I did not want to start the topic off with carts, but as you have well I just can't resist.

He has become totally confused and believes that the cart on a course in not there to aid those that need one but a platform for in-depth debates and conversations. But during this whole process he misses out on the landscape and the quality of GCA with the its clever design features, believing that all the answers can be found on a cart.

The following is Anthony Gray’s understanding of History.

Troy did not fall because of the Trojan Horse, it was due to the infamous cart from Hell.

Boadicea’s chariot was in fact a two-seater cart converted to four standing with scythes on all four wheels – if the first two miss (as in the Gladiator film) then the rear tow will not. Her failure (he believes) was the result that she ran out of gas at St Albans rendering the cart useless.

Harold at the Battle of Hastings did not die from an arrow in the eye released by a Norman bowman but from a drunk on a cart (Saturday afternoon) when it went over a bump at speed releasing a quiver of arrows in the air, one of which penetrated the eye of Harold.

Drake at Plymouth was not playing bowls, but Cart Bowls and had not finished his nine holes, so delayed setting sail.

The most interesting and latest in a long line of misinformation released by our Mr Gray is that Cartier is someone who rides a cart and must not be confused with a quality jeweller.

Pleased do not be confused by his question “What factors determine your Golf IQ”. Mr Gray is just seeking information to help him in his forthcoming cart debate later this year in the UK.

Melvyn

It is my final answer and you prove my point perfectly. You consider yourself all-knowing, however in your arguements you show how narrow-minded you really are. When you think you know everything, it's easy to show just how little you really know.

If Gray's post is really about carts then that is stupid, as I generally don't respond to his one-sentense topics and I thought that of all this is somewhat interesting. However if it isn't, and you brought up carts anyway, then that again proves my point.

[Joe Hancock]

Anthony

The correct upbringing in a golfing family with those long lists of family golfing values going back centuries. 

Melvyn

PS Also by touching 'The Spirit of The Game'

By this criteria, I'm fooked....

[Melvyn Morrow]

Alas, Dear Joe, I fear you may well be, but then have you not always been? Like golf life is not fair or easy

[Ross Tuddenham]

Well I suppose it comes down to whether you are referring to the knowledge of the game playing wise, historically, rules wise, architecturally or other non playing aspects.

But even within the playing of the game there are many areas of knowledge. For example course management and the knowledge about the actual technique.

There will be plenty of people with a scratch handicap that have no idea of the existence of Bandon, Ballyneal, Merion etc, and their respective histories, but could talk at lengths about how to execute a 10 yard fade with a 3 iron from a downhill lie.

Or what about the clever player that could plan the perfect route around a course but has not got the skill to execute the shots.

I suppose the best thing to do would be to create a system that could combine a written element and combine it with your handicap?

[Adrian_Stiff]

All factors of golf knowledge should contribute; history and knoweldge of the old game through to the modern game; rules of the game; golf course architecture; understanding the golf swing, the handicapping system, golf course maintenace, many many others, I think probably the ability to play is probably not a factor and most definitely using a cart does not render disqualification

[Bill_McBride]

I think exposure to golf in other areas is important.  Travel to play golf in the UK and your ideas aboiut the very foiundations of golf may change.  The way golf is part of the life of a village in Scotland or England, and the egalitarian nature of a great deal of golf in the British Isles is a far cry from our model.  It may or may not be better but it should be experienced.

Playing links golf gives one a whole new perspective on the game and may increase one's "Golf IQ" as well as enjoyment of the game.

As far as carts are concerned, I am a happy rider here in the Southern US and suspect Melvyn would be too if he came to visit in the summer.  But I just spent two days playing up in the Cashiers NC area on two courses than could not be walked in anyone's dreams and to me it's not the same as real golf.  It was necessary to play a roiund but it wasn't what golf ought to be.

[Ross Tuddenham]

Adrian mentioned that playing skill is not part of the golfing IQ but I had included it because I thought a player that had, like already mentioned, played since they were young may have picked up more understanding of the game.

But who has a better understanding of the others game; good players about bad or bad players about good.  So if designing a course would a better player be able to better understand what a higher handicapper may find enjoyable or not have a clue and vice versa?

[archie_struthers]

 


Your height!

[Melvyn Morrow]

Well Pat, you still have that massive chip on your shoulder.  I do not know everything, whom among us does.

I have never claimed to be all knowing regards life, let alone golf. Nevertheless, I do have knowledge of playing golf at home (GB&I) and in many parts of the Tropics, I therefore voice those experiences.

You seem to harbour a great dislike for anything I write, be it serious or just trying to interject some humour.  I am sorry that you feel that way but that is your decision.

As for the cart comments, that subject was not introduced by me but Mark. Clearly, what I said was just humour, nothing more.

As for proving your point, yes you have done that without my help, the bitterness is clear. Again, I am sorry you feel that way towards me, but it’s your life, if that is the way you want to live it then good luck.

Melvyn

[Michael Blake]

Spelling ability.

[Anthony Gray]

Spelling ability.

  Agreed. You just cannot misspell Carnoustie or Dornoch and be taken seriously.

  Anthony

[Melvyn Morrow]

Anthony

You can spell Dornoch with a K but it not Royal Dornoch but Dornock (Crieff) - now closed which you would be referring too. So do not worry about Rich (although he has a good IQ re golf).

Melvyn

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian mentioned that playing skill is not part of the golfing IQ but I had included it because I thought a player that had, like already mentioned, played since they were young may have picked up more understanding of the game.

But who has a better understanding of the others game; good players about bad or bad players about good.  So if designing a course would a better player be able to better understand what a higher handicapper may find enjoyable or not have a clue and vice versa?

Ross- I am thinking along the lines that you dont have to be a good player to be a good teacher and for IQ of golf we are talking knowledge, so I think it is more the knowing what a good shot, bad shot etc is rather than the execution, but its just my take. In reality very few high golf IQerrs would not be players.

[Kyle Henderson]

Your pronunciation of "Gullane."

Oh, and naturally your gender and ethnicity. 

[Doug Ralston]

Two simple factors.

1. How much you have read about Merion on GCA.

2. How much of the above you actually believed.
2.(a) How much you even cared.

Having started gingerly then quickly ceasing and checking out lobotomy as an option, I consider my bona fides established. Sadly, none of my genius has help my swing. 

Doug

[Lou_Duran]

"Experience -- time spent on the golf course, playing -- is by far the most important factor in golfing IQ" says Peter P.  Right on!  As opposed to abstract reasoning (intellectual masturbation in a parlance perhaps more suitable to this group).  And no doubt that like with so many other things, what is learned during early, critical developmental stages is far superior and more efficient.  Playing widely (different areas) and in competition are factors, as is having an open, inquisitive mind.  I shake my head when I hear hacks like me suggest that touring pros have little knowledge of strategy and no business getting into golf course design.   

[Brad Wilbur]

Couldn't you use a formula similar to how courses are rated?  Somebody might use different systems, but how about for a starter:

Playing ability       20%
Years of experience   20%
Breadth of experience  25%
Ability to utilize the above 35%

[Anthony Gray]

Couldn't you use a formula similar to how courses are rated?  Somebody might use different systems, but how about for a starter:

Playing ability       20%
Years of experience   20%
Breadth of experience  25%
Ability to utilize the above 35%

  80% past travels the other half Experiences.

  Anthony

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