Best course in Washington State...

[Bill_McBride]

Time for Jonathan to retitle this thread

How about "Could WV be..........?"

Or, "Is WV One of...........?"

I admire Jonathan for expressing his opinion and standing his ground.   Since I haven't played either course yet, I'll just   

[Sean Leary]

Time for Jonathan to retitle this thread

How about "Could WV be..........?"

Or, "Is WV One of...........?"

I admire Jonathan for expressing his opinion and standing his ground.   Since I haven't played either course yet, I'll just   

Bill, Are you coming to PDX again this summer? Maybe we can go play together?

[Bill_McBride]

Sean, I wish I were coming out, but it looks like 2010. 

By then Wine Valley will have grown in nicely, maybe we can get up a GCA weekend.  That would be fun, I can't wait to see the course.  It would be good to have Slagbert along as our personal guide. 

[Garland Bayley]

...
9 sucks.

As I have stated before, my biggest complaint with the course is that there are too many sideboards and backboards for my liking, and 9 is included in that. That being said, it is the best course in the state. Obviously I need to get out to Wine Valley.
...

So if they removed the sideboard on 9 it wouldn't suck anymore?

[Michael Dugger]

#8 at CB is weak.  It's completely penal to the point of ridiculous when a ball is sprayed right.  Good luck dodging range balls.  And the strategy is minimal, at best.  Only someone grasping at straws is going to make the case it is a compelling hole full of strategy.   

I concur with Sean that it was not necessary to "go there" with the routing

The hole should have gone through where the driving range is currently located and then #9 could be played as a medium length, uphill par 3, which would add variety to the one shotters.  Nothing necessarily bad about #9, IMHO, it's a decent drop shot hole.  I actually think it's kinda beautifully rugged, like a lot of CB.  But that section of the course is surely not the highlight of round out there.

[Sean Leary]

...
9 sucks.

As I have stated before, my biggest complaint with the course is that there are too many sideboards and backboards for my liking, and 9 is included in that. That being said, it is the best course in the state. Obviously I need to get out to Wine Valley.
...

So if they removed the sideboard on 9 it wouldn't such anymore?

Nope. I don't mind sideboards, just don't like them on every hole.   9 as it is is better with sideboards.
In general, I am not a big fan of dropshot par threes, especially with THAT much elevation change. And especially on a links course.

[Richard Choi]

Personally, I LOVE the sideboards at Chambers Bay. I think it is one of those features that really helps higher handicappers while making it more challenging for major tournaments.

Right now, when the greens are running slow, the sideboards are great since it makes your target larger and you can favor one side over the other.

However, when the greens are running fast, the sideboards will repel anything close to the pin. On #9, I expect the toughest pin position to be the back left corner and front left for the US Am and US Open. If the green is running 10 or 11, if you miss the green to the left, I believe you will be lucky to have your ball stop on the green, most balls will pick up so much speed, it will roll right off the green (or be 80 feet away facing a tough uphill putt). It will make #9 much more interesting hole for the Open compared to everyday play.

I am a fan of any course feature that benefits high handicappers while making things more interesting for tournament players.

[Sean Leary]

Personally, I LOVE the sideboards at Chambers Bay. I think it is one of those features that really helps higher handicappers while making it more challenging for major tournaments.

Right. And you are a fan of the brush tee as well.

 

[Richard Choi]

(In my best Captain Kirk voice...)

LEARY!!!!!!!!

[Sean Leary]

Richard,

I agree that it makes it much more playable for the higher handicapper, and that is a positive. But i just think they go to the well too many times on that and it gets repetitive. I find myself never shooting at pins, and just aiming at sideboards and backboards all day, because it doesn't matter. It funnels on the green, I three putt on the slow shitty greens, and walk off with my bogey. Very repetitive.

[Garland Bayley]

#8 at CB is weak.  It's completely penal to the point of ridiculous when a ball is sprayed right.  Good luck dodging range balls.  And the strategy is minimal, at best.  Only someone grasping at straws is going to make the case it is a compelling hole full of strategy.   
...

So you put an ocean on my slice side like at PB #18 and it's a great hole. But if you put a steep drop off on most everyone else's slice side then "it's completely penal to the point of ridiculous?"

The strategy is the similar on both holes. Flirt with danger for the best opportunity.

[Anthony Gray]

  Are the sideboards there for spectator seating or are they part of the course that is in play?

  Anthony

[Michael Dugger]

#8 at CB is weak.  It's completely penal to the point of ridiculous when a ball is sprayed right.  Good luck dodging range balls.  And the strategy is minimal, at best.  Only someone grasping at straws is going to make the case it is a compelling hole full of strategy.   
...

So you put an ocean on my slice side like at PB #18 and it's a great hole. But if you put a steep drop off on most everyone else's slice side then "it's completely penal to the point of ridiculous?"

The strategy is the similar on both holes. Flirt with danger for the best opportunity.

How does flirting with any danger afford an advantage at CB #8?  I thought being on the upper terrace was preferable?

To boot, I suspect the 18th at PB is wider than the 8th at CB

Nor does the #8 at CB have a tree hazard to negotiate, or an option of biting off a cross bunker to reach the green in two.

Nor a single bunker to make the player think about anything but just whacking twostraight shots up near the green.

And yes, scenery counts for something....

[Garland Bayley]

...
9 sucks.

As I have stated before, my biggest complaint with the course is that there are too many sideboards and backboards for my liking, and 9 is included in that. That being said, it is the best course in the state. Obviously I need to get out to Wine Valley.
...

So if they removed the sideboard on 9 it wouldn't such anymore?

Nope. I don't mind sideboards, just don't like them on every hole.   9 as it is is better with sideboards.
In general, I am not a big fan of dropshot par threes, especially with THAT much elevation change. And especially on a links course.

But it's not a links course. It is a reclaimed gravel and sand mine that has its own special characteristics. That leaves your definition of sucks to be "not a big fan". How much of the world sucks for you Sean? 

[Mike Wagner]

Sean,

My Inglewood friends' (although I' don't belong there any longer) reaction to the conditioning is this: (and I mean this with no disrespect, but...) f'n country club typical.  I find it disturbing that CC (or anyone else with "conditioning-itis) guys - lots of them accomplished players - can't go to a course with less than pampered greens and see beyond it.  It's too bad for them IMO.  Some guys went out right after it opened and came away with "the greens suck - I'll never go back"......well, their loss.  I went shortly after opening and though I was playing what could eventually be a top 5 course in the nation.

As for #9 - I see your point.  I jsimply lean in Garland's direction.  It's different.  There's not many shots that I breathe such a sigh of relief (especially one that requires a player to think so much about yardage and "feel" a shot) if performed well.  I can see scores from 1-X there.  That being said, the only thing I don't like about it just how far you can hit if left and still hit it close, but it doesn't change the fact that I love the hole.  Can't believe how much I now like 8 after playing it a bunch...

BTW - haven't played it, and I'm glad you brought it up.....from what I understand from players' whose judgement I trust, Tumble Creek needs to be in this conversation.

[Sean Leary]

...
9 sucks.

As I have stated before, my biggest complaint with the course is that there are too many sideboards and backboards for my liking, and 9 is included in that. That being said, it is the best course in the state. Obviously I need to get out to Wine Valley.
...

So if they removed the sideboard on 9 it wouldn't such anymore?

Nope. I don't mind sideboards, just don't like them on every hole.   9 as it is is better with sideboards.
In general, I am not a big fan of dropshot par threes, especially with THAT much elevation change. And especially on a links course.

But it's not a links course. It is a reclaimed gravel and sand mine that has its own special characteristics. That leaves your definition of sucks to be "not a big fan". How much of the world sucks for you Sean? 

FAir enough. Doesn't suck.

YOU suck, by the way. not 21.7 Index suck, but maybe like 15.0 suck.

 

[Mike Wagner]

MD,

Isn't that part of the beauty of #8 - hitting it straight.  I love the fact that I can, if perfectly executed, take a whack at reaching it with a couple different options- straight or playing it off the left bank.  Both offer dangers...

The point is this hole seems to be growing on people....especially me.

[Sean Leary]

Sean,

My Inglewood friends' (although I' don't belong there any longer) reaction to the conditioning is this: (and I mean this with no disrespect, but...) f'n country club typical.  I find it disturbing that CC (or anyone else with "conditioning-itis) guys - lots of them accomplished players - can't go to a course with less than pampered greens and see beyond it.  It's too bad for them IMO.  Some guys went out right after it opened and came away with "the greens suck - I'll never go back"......well, their loss.  I went shortly after opening and though I was playing what could eventually be a top 5 course in the nation.

As for #9 - I see your point.  I jsimply lean in Garland's direction.  It's different.  There's not many shots that I breathe such a sigh of relief (especially one that requires a player to think so much about yardage and "feel" a shot) if performed well.  I can see scores from 1-X there.  That being said, the only thing I don't like about it just how far you can hit if left and still hit it close, but it doesn't change the fact that I love the hole.  Can't believe how much I now like 8 after playing it a bunch...

BTW - haven't played it, and I'm glad you brought it up.....from what I understand from players' whose judgement I trust, Tumble Creek needs to be in this conversation.

Mike,

Agreed the the country clubbers (especially good players) are spoiled. I can see the design value and overlook the conditions in evailuating the course as a layout, but i simply don't have as much fun on shitty greens. Thats just me. Just being honest.

You will have to come out to Fall City with this f'n spoiled country clubber soon.   The course is absolutely perfect right now, firmer and faster than I have ever seen..

[Garland Bayley]

MD,

Isn't that part of the beauty of #8 - hitting it straight.  I love the fact that I can, if perfectly executed, take a whack at reaching it with a couple different options- straight or playing it off the left bank.  Both offer dangers...

The point is this hole seems to be growing on people....especially me.

Is your other name Bubba Watson? 8 is intended to be a true three shot hole. They are tacking on a new tee for the open so it will remains so. Are you playing from the wrong tees?

[Mike Wagner]

Bubba's wing span is about 3 feet longer than mine

I play the back tees - they're building a few new ones out there that will be extremely long. 

If you hit it up the right center, I found you'll have an uphill lie - it was conducive to hitting a driver (another testament to how good the fairways are) off the deck.  What a fun shot!!

[Michael Dugger]

Garland,  

I never said anything about gettin home in two. I said there is little thought required to hitting those first two shots,

Mike Wagner,

Most golf holes treat shots hit straight well, perhaps I do not get your point. Hitting it straight is desired on all holes right?

[Mike Wagner]

MD,

Sure, straight shots are desired on most holes( let's not get into the Hogan philosophy about a shot only counting if shaped properly).....but sometimes they need to be shaped.  #8 - it's a MUST - althought the fairway is wide - it gets in your head to hit it straight.  It's not always an easy thing to do - that's why I think it's a good hole.

Kind of like hitting a straight pool shot - hardest shot on the table!

So my point is just that - I don't see anything wrong with a straight hole.

[Richard Choi]

Is your other name Bubba Watson? 8 is intended to be a true three shot hole. They are tacking on a new tee for the open so it will remains so. Are you playing from the wrong tees?

I played from the Sand (6500 yards) and got on the green in two (with a 4 iron). If the wind is from behind you (about 20% of the times), it is readily reachable in two.

And the ideal drive for the hole is a slight draw so that you can hold your line. If you hit it straight and land in the middle, the fairway can kick it to the right and be in the rough.

[Garland Bayley]

Wouldn't you want to shape the shot away from the danger on the right side? I.e., take the right side out of play. That would be a lot easier for those who shape shots than trying to drive a straight one up the middle wouldn't it?

[Mike Wagner]

Sean,

Would love to come out to The Farm - played with Carranza and Swingle out there a couple weeks ago - it was perfect!

As it turns out, I'm leaving tomorrow to work at Erin Hills for the summer.  A good friend of mine is the head pro, and well, one thing led to another.  Thanks to Jim Colton, the road trip is going through Ballyneal!!  I'll probably post so more people can see this, but I'm hoping to see a lot of GCA'ers out there.

I will be back Nov. 1, so a raincheck is in order..