[TEPaul]

As a supplement to the "scary" hole topic I thought a topic on some of the worlds best "sucker pins" might be appropriate--the kind of green areas that even the aggressive might truly refrain from trying to go.

Are really good "sucker pins" an instant excercise in "strategy"? I think so!

A few I know of:

1. Back left #1 NGLA--doable but dicey
2. Very back of #1 PVGC--maybe the coolest alltime sucker pin to me because it's so progressive--the farther down you try to go the bigger sucker you are!
3. Left tier #11 NGLA
4. Back #12 NGLA
5. right side #7 NGLA
6. Front right #12 Seminole
7. Mid right tier or back left tier #18 Maidstone
8. Right side #17 TPC Sawgrass
9. From middle back from the right side fairway #10 Riviera
10. Back left #14 Overbrook
11. Back pins #8, #10 and right tier #17 PVGC, front left #13
12. Back tier #9 Manufacturers
13. left side #11 HVGC, far back left #4 HVGC, back right #5 HVGC.
14. Back left #9 & #14 Merion
15. The entire "Road" hole green?

[TEPaul]

A quick post of one sucker pin I don't really know very well but I suppose it's a sucker pin, particularly with the "ideal maintenance meld" on the course. This one is for Pat Mucci's benefit;

Back pin on #8 GCGC!

Nice going Pat, you dumb SUCKER!!!

[Chris_Hunt]

I wholeheartedly agree that sucker pins are fabulous, and a fine example of the all-important penal hazard, around which strategic design revolves.  As long as the pin is more difficult to reach on the recovery (if recovery is even possible) then on the initial approach, which should be pretty tough to begin with, you find a sucker.

Some examples that come to mind:

1.  Front right on #11 St. Andrews.
2.  Middle left on #3 County Louth
3.  Front right on #13 North Berwick
4.  Front left on #13 Muirfield
5.  Front left on #5 Woodhall Spa
6.  Right side of #14 ANGC
7.  Back left on #13 Dooks
8.  Front right on #8 East Hampton
9.  Back of #9 green at Old Ballybunion
10. Front right on #15 Kingsbarns
11. Middle far left or right passed the tier on #13 at Pitreavie

[Chris_Hunt]

How many greens on an 18 should have a true sucker pin?  Not just a championship spot, but a real spot where you must nearly hole out or eat it?  I would say more than half, but I like the wild green.

[AndyI]

I would add one more at HVCC: back left or far back right #15.

[Peter Galea]

Right front, Spyglass #8.

[TEPaul]

So many of these old classic courses because of their green contour and slope have many little nuancy areas of "sucker pins" particularly with high speed greens. HVGC and NGLA, Merion, PVGC  basically have loads of them that are probably too numerous to mention.

Another--back tier on Piping's #13!

Can't forget the world's premier annual tournment sucker pin for much longer, Kenny V's original "If he hits it there it's a mistake"--ANGC's Sunday right pin on #12!!!

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

What great holes have multi sucker pins ?

Would # 2 at PV qualify ?

#'s 1,3,6,7,8,11,12,15,18 at NGLA.

Where else ?

[TEPaul]

Pat:

I don't know that I would say that some of the greens you mentioned there are examples of "sucker Pins" exactly (ex. #2 PVGC) just very hard green to approach correctly and also very hard to putt if you get in the wrong place.

Or say #6 NGLA! Not really sucker pins just almost essential that you get your ball in the correct part of the green, no matter how difficult that might be to do, you pretty much have to try to do it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I think the greens I mentioned offer a variety of sucker pins.

I think that is one of the many strong points of NGLA, that a great variety of excellent pin positions exist on each green, some substantially more difficult than others.

The front of # 8 will eat your lunch on both the approach and recovery shots.  The same could be said about the entire right side of the green.

# 12 has to be one of the most underrated greens around.
Try getting the ball to that back portion of the green just over the ridge.  

The other neat feature is the variety of shots one can hit in an attempt to get close to the pin.

[John_McMillan]

It's hard to see how you can have a discussion about sucker pins with out qualifying it by levels of playing ability.  Because the landing variance of shots varies by handicap,  a "sucker pin" for a bogey golfer might be a "green light" pin for Tiger Woods.  It's not clear what level of ability the above lists are designed for, but an interesting list would be holes with the ability to sucker different abilities with different pin locations.

[Tim Weiman]

John McMillan:

I very much agree with your point.  A good example is a hole selected by Chris Hunt: #9 on the Old Course at Ballybunion.

Having played the hole many times I can assure you that at least 95 percent of the people playing the hole (including very talented locals) are quite happy just to be on the green in regulation.  Very few people actually fire at specific pin positions.  Even during the Irish Open, it didn't happen much.

I do like Tom Paul's selection of #1 at Pine Valley.  For there, it is possible for a less talented player to take aim at the pin position Tom mentions (very back of green).  Let me underline "take aim", for actually pulling it off takes a lot of skill.  Playing to the middle of the green is a much better option.  The last thing you want to do is start a round at Pine Valley with a disaster!

[Patrick_Mucci]

John McMillan,

I think there are some sucker pins that transcend handicap or ability.

Far right at #7 NGLA,  Far back at # 1 PV and # 18 NGLA.

Each present every level of golfer with doubt and anxiety in the event the shot doesn't get executed perfectly.

The scratch handicap may be coming into the pin with their second or third shot, the higher handicap with their third, fourth or fifth shot, but they all feel that uncertainty and suffer dire consequences should the shot not be executed properly.

[jim_lewis]

The second green on Pinhurst #2 is one of the great green complexes in the world, and I am privaleged to look at it as I drive by just about every day.  Nobody, and I mean nobody, shoots at the back right pin with anything more than a sand wedge. I don't recall seeing any of the players in the 1999 U.S. Open go for that pin and none of the regular Pinehurst caddies would ever "let" his player do so.

Even a well struck iron with a high trajectory has a landing area no bigger than a queen-size bed. If you are a little long or right your ball kicks down a slope leaving one of those diffcult chips or putts back up the slope to a very small target, for which Donald Ross is famous. A short approach catches a front bunker or the nose of the bunker from which there is no telling where it winds up.

The only sensible play is well left to the middle of the green and hope to two-putt.  This is one of the best and toughest par-fours on the course.

I agree that the back right "Sunday" pin on #12 at Augusta is the most famous sucker pin. The only time I remember seeing a leader go for that pin successfully was in 1984. Ben Crenshaw hit one of the guttiest iron shots I have seen and birdied the hole on his way to victory.

[Paul Perrella]

   To tie into another thread how about the left side of #2 at Fenway.

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