[BillV]

Did this bunker start life on a Tillinghast or Ross course?

[Allen Rebstock]

I'm with RJ Daley, this looks like a George Thomas bunker that has been refurbished.  The location and design looks natural to me with the face cut into the side of the green with a little flashed up face and tongues.  The edges tell me that it has been redone recently or is overly maintained.  I'd love to have a bunker that looks this good on my course.   However, could it be a refurbished Tillinghast bunker from the Westchester area.

[TEPaul]

TommyN, this really is an interesting topic you've started here. I don't really know what to make of this bunker except it looks to be on an old course and the bunker sure looks to be recently redone with the extra white sand that looks like it was just put in and that sort of puffy upholstered look that Tom MacW said which is sign of a recent rebuild.

I can't wait to hear where this is and if it was recently redone, who did it--the contractor particularly. Those two big aquiline capes coming off the green look to be built like nothing I've seen from the old guys but maybe somebody's interepretation of what the old guys did and once again maybe the interpretation was from aerials from a couple of thousand feet.

Actually, Tommy, if this is a recent redo and this is your photo, I would love to see anything you have of this bunker before the redo.

[Willie_Dow]

Tommy N
Merry Plus!
Just found RTJ,Jr discussion of "Bunkers", and it is pretty good!
ISBN 0-316-47298-0
Definitions: Carry-Collection-Definition-Directional (or Target)-
Face-Pot-Saving-Waste
Patterns: Central-Cluster-Framing (or Bracket)-Staggerd-
Surrounding
A most compelling analysis!  But an update of ?

[Willie_Dow]

Tommy N
Merry Plus!
Just found RTJ,Jr discussion of "Bunkers", and it is pretty good!
ISBN 0-316-47298-0
Definitions: Carry-Collection-Definition-Directional (or Target)-
Face-Pot-Saving-Waste
Patterns: Central-Cluster-Framing (or Bracket)-Staggerd-
Surrounding
A most compelling analysis!  But an update of ?

[Bill_McBride]

I played a new course yesterday in far south Alabama, "The Preserve at Soldiers Creek."  For those supers out there, the course is owned by and built on land belonging to the Woerner Turf Farm people.  Mr Woerner told me his Tif-Eagle turf is installed on 50% of the new courses built in the US.  I can't vouch for that personally.  The course was a first design effort by Scott Clark, with whom I'm not familiar.  The routing was pretty good except for west-oriented 9th and 18th, rolling parkland, very walkable which we did because it was cold as hell.  The reason for posting on this thread was what I felt to be inferior bunkering -- but correctable.  Every bunker was at least six and more like eight feet from the putting surface, and flattish with few capes and tongues. After looking at lots of pictures of good bunkering, I was very disappointed.  That Mackenzie look with bunkers cut tight with wild sprawling sand must be difficult to maintain, you sure don't see much of it on new courses!

[ed getka]

Tommy,
I agree with others that I would like to see a bit more of the bunker surrounds to have more context to judge the bunker by. I like this bunker much more than #1. There are a variety of lies the ball could potentially come to rest on. The depth poses some challenge. The front left portion of the bunker provides for a long sand shot, which combined with a short side pin placement would make for a very testing shot. The symmetry of the tongues repeating is not very appealing. I too would be interested to know if the green originally came closer to the back right portion of the bunker. Overall I would rate it a 6 or so.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I like this bunker. It does seem to fit with the land. the only thing I would change is the flashing in the shadows. I feel this does nothing for the play and creates a maintenance issue. Also in our climate a significant maintenance issue.

[Scott_Burroughs]

It appears that any shot in the far part of the bunker will roll back up against the back lip, thus making it (seem) impossible to hit towards the green without hitting the lip on the backswing or follow-through.   One would have to hit back towards the fairway or maybe the very front of the green.

[TEPaul]

Scott:

What you're descibing there reminds me a lot of the way the back of the leftside bunker #10 PVGC used to be! You knew on the tee (if you were familiar with the course) that if you got in that section of that bunker basically you were sort of screwed. So you thought a lot about that on the tee...a very strategic bunker, in other words! Actually that little par 3 hole had great strategic balance that way because that back section of the left bunker was well balanced with that thing front right in which you were also screwed!

Golfers did try to go at the pin or the green when in the back of that left bunker but it was definitely not recommended and was probably the end of many a decent round! The smarter play was to putt your ball down to the front of the left bunker and go from there.

Unfortunately, I think they may have reworked that back left bunker and widened that area enough where that problem doesn't exist anymore. Not much they can do about that thing front right though. So at the very least I might say the hole has lost a little of its strategic balance!

[Scott_Burroughs]

Tom,
     I wonder how many people in that section of the left bunker would think (without help from your caddie) to putt to the other section of the bunker as the safest bet.  Definitely an "odd" (rarely needed) strategy.  Most people want out of a bunker immediately.   It would definitely add insult to injury to pitch out sideways and end up in D.A.

[A_Clay_Man]

This one too please.

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