News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised New
« on: April 17, 2009, 08:03:08 PM »
Before heading down to Kiawah I took in a game at The Governors Club in Chapel Hill.  I didn't know much about the place before my visit other than folks on this site are generally disapproving and that it is a Nicklaus design.  To be honest, I was skeptical, but true to my beliefs, I decided to go with the invite because its always a priveledge to be invited somewhere. 

My general impression of the course is that it didn't feel like the punishing Nicklaus courses people speak of.  Governors Club felt more like the typical pine lined rolling hills Carolina course to me.  There is a lot of strategy in working down slopes or into them to hold optimal lines. What was different was the the use of water.  The agua was more prevalent than I am used to, sometimes for the good, but for sure too much of it for my tastes.  Additionally and this is even more surprising than the water, most of the greens are the wide and shallow variety and sometimes they are angled to boot.  I recall this style popping up at Tobacco Road more than once, but I had never seen so many greens on one course of this style.  I thought it was a bit too much, but this was the chief defense Nicklaus used for the course and to be fair, there are some excellent examples of the type. 

The first two holes open the curtain on the Governors Club, but the 3rd gets the play properly underway with a good par 5 moving left around a bunker and featuring a bit of a turbo boost off the tee.  The hole is definitely reachable in two, but not without some gambling.  While I believe Nicklaus used too much water on this design, GC is not without some very good holes incorporating water. 


Here is a look at the green from the right.


We now come to the first harsh water hole, a longish par 3.  I wasn't keen on this hole because of the fronting bunkers combined with the wall. It just looks out of place to me.

#5 is a good longish par 4 requiring a solid strike up the left to set up an easier approach, but like many Redanish holes, this one too slides back left.


In general, the greens had good contours to them, but they didn't always tie in well to the surrounds.  In particular, I noticed many greens are cut off from the high side by hollows which eliminate the kick in option. 


One can see the hollow effect again on the 6th.  I certainly think there is a place for this more extreme sort of demand, but I don't necessarily believe it goes well with many wide n shallow greens.


The following two holes switch things up by allowing a kick in off the left for #7 and the green for #8 is more welcoming without being easy. The Lakes 9 ends with a very good medium par 3 which is all carry.  What I liked most about this hole was how the wind played a pivotal role and how challenging the water leaves a far easier putt than bailing long and playing back toward the water. 


The back 9 moves into more rambunctious territory and is titled Foothills.  #10 eases to the right, but it is best to stay well left to avoid having to cross a mighty chasm on the short right side of the green.  The photo doesn't indicate how severe the front right portion of the green is. The flag is perched just on the high side of the bowl.  This is a very good hole and perhaps my favourite on the course. 


The eleventh is a good hole showcasing a great green which can cause all sorts of problems.  #12 is perhaps the best par 3 on the course and its a shame the look is spoiled a bit by the over dose of bunkering.  The slope on the right is severe enough that the "protection" of four bunkers really is silly.  Nonetheless, this hole shines because so much of the green is pinnable.


A look from the rear of the green.


I was completely perplexed on the 13th, a shortish par 5, but very difficult to hit in two.  Initially, after hitting a drive and a second, I thought the hole turned right.  One can see why going for it is filled with danger.  I had no idea of what lie ahead and was totally taken by surprise.  I really like how even long hitters would be intimidated by going for it.  This is most definitely the type of hole which really gives a fat old bloke me a chance to hang in with the flat belly.


The closer one gets the more intimidating the approach looks - most unusual in this regard.


After the terrifying approach of the last hole, Jack asks us to hit another on the par 3 14th.  Once again, we can see how the kick in has been cut off.  I don't particularly like the bunker for this very reason. 


We now come to a short, abruptly uphill par 4.  I thought the elevation change uphill was just too much.  There is a little plateau some 40-50 yards short of the green.  I am not sure why Jack didn't use this for the green.  It would have been a more reachable par 4 whereas the current version is not reachable and this course could certainly use a few gentle par 4s.  Perhaps it is part of Jack's makeup not to allow a breather hole even if its steeply uphill!

A look at the approach from near the plateau I spoke of earlier.


The view from behind the green!


What goes up must go down.  #16 is a weird hole because the trees block out where one wants to flight the drive or at least that option of working down the hill.  As it is now one must cut a tee shot back into the fairway or face trouble in either direction.  This is a pity because the approach and green are good.


The 17th, like a great many of the drives and/or in combination with the approaches is an up and over deal.  Consequently, there are a lot of blind/terrain obscured shots which took me by surprise as I thought Nicklaus was generally against this sort of thing.  In any case, the penultimate hole is a good par 5 that is reachable. 

We now head for home with another water hole.  Not a bad one, but perhaps not the way to finish.  I was curious as to why Nicklaus didn't try a double green with the 9th as it rests some way behind the 18th.  At least it could have added a bit of flair. 


Honestly, Governors Club was better than I anticipated.  There are several elements which if done moderately I would have been fine with.  Its probably just a matter of degree.  Too many shots are dictated for this to be one of the subtle courses that I really enjoy, but some of the in your face shots are very appealing.  I am torn in different directions with this course because there are a handful of very good holes and no holes that I can point to as poor, but there are several incidents (too many) in which I would have liked Nicklaus to tone it down a bit.  In the end, I spose Governors Club is not one of those I would recommend folks to go to extra lengths to play, but it also shouldn't disappoint anybody who happens to have game there.  I wouldn't mind having another go if only to see the course in good condition, but I am not sure that would change my overall opinion.  All that said, I did enjoy the day and playing GC afforded me a unique opportunity to see a Nicklaus, a Dye and a Raynor course in one trip.  Remy and I had a lot of fun comparing and contrasting each without taking any of it too seriously.

Ciao         
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 07:41:45 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2009, 09:01:42 PM »
Sean, it looks as though the Bemuda is slow coming in.  I have played the Gov Club a half dozen times.
I have always liked it.  You're right it does not feel like a Nicklaus course.  If you were to play it without knowing who designed it, you would be hard pressed to come of with JN.  I thought the par fives and par threes were especially strong.  Looks like you had a good trip. 
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2009, 09:27:38 PM »
I actually didn't realize GC was Nicklaus either. My memory is a little fuzzy, but I think that you played the original 18 and not the new 9 on the hill, correct?  Do they consider the facility an 18 and a 9, or 3 9 hole combinations now?  When I was there (2004) they had just finished the new nine I believe.

Bermuda-wise, that's about standard for the area right now - my course is in similar shape, maybe SLIGHTLY more green but not much at all.   One warm week and it will really pop.

While not exactly apples to apples, I preferred Governors Club to nearby Duke.

What else is on the docket for the NC leg of the trip?

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2009, 12:06:47 AM »
Ryan,

I first played Gov Club in '95 or '96 and the 'new' 9 was open then.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2009, 11:43:51 AM »
Sean,

Interesting comment on the shape and angle of the greens. I played the Nicklaus course at Reunion in Florida last year and I remember quite a few of the greens were similiar to what you describe ie. shallow and wide. Also quite a few of them were quite small making them hard to hit. I enjoyed the course buit if I'm honest i would rather go and play the Watson course again.

Niall

David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2009, 03:51:07 PM »
Sean, nice write-up and photos. I was the GC member who hosted Sean earlier this month, and was impressed by how much he picked up on his first play, especially as the course was very soft and wet and nowhere near in peak playing form. Some things that might be worth mentioning that'll make sense with your write-up:

The course is atypical of early 1990's Nicklaus courses in that there is a very good balance of shots and holes where drawn shots are preferable. This is not a fader's golf course; it is a shot-maker's course. You can't just bomb in high shots to the greens, as the greens tiering wrecks havoc with high-spin power shots. And while high shots with spin control often work best, there are a bunch of opportunities to work in the ball along or closer to the ground.

Many of the greens are indeed angled. While there can be a three club difference from a given point in the fairway to different parts of a green, there often is only 10 yards of depth available for a shot. I believe that this comes from Nicklaus's style of play, which was to be extremely accurate in terms of distance control while leaving the ball to the correct side of the hole. Often at Governors Club it's far better to be 30' - 50' wide of a cup but pin-high on the correct side than it is to be ten or fifteen feet short or long. You'll usually have a flattish lag putt or chip when pin-high to the correct side, but will often be wet, in a deep bunker, or at best have to negotiate a tricky putt if you are dead on line but thirty feet long or short.

Tee shot placement offers similar demands. The undulating and sloping fairways often favor a laid-up tee shot rather than a full-fledged bomb that can leave a very awkward lie and make distance control for the approach shot a difficult challenge.

Regarding the conditions, we in central NC are having a very late golfing spring, with a lot of cold, wet weather. Usually by early April most of our course has greened up, with just some of the rough a bit brown. And once the bermuda comes in, it starts soaking up the water that otherwise has nowhere to go on our red clay soil. hopefully spring will arrive before summer.



Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2009, 08:53:17 PM »
Tommy

Yes, thank you, we had a good trip. 

Ryan

I too prefer Governors Club to Duke, but I doubt many see it that way. 

The trip is over but I will get to play many more cool courses in the coming months so don't feel sorry for me - tee hee.

David

Thanks again for the invite. 

I understand that the conditions weren't ripe for kicking balls in, but I don't count that many approaches, maybe 3-4, where its a play that may be preferable.  I very much see GC as predominately an aerial course and as such I see this is a weakness, but I understand that when it was built the idea of a ground game renaissance was just coming alive. 

I would agree that often times it is best to be pin high rather than short and especially long.

Ciao   
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2009, 10:29:24 AM »
Sean,

I agree that GC is primarily an aerial golf course. There are only a limited number of times that a ground approach is preferable. But there are lots of times where a lower flighted and spun approach shot that lands short of the pin and then bounces up to a tier or works a slope is the best way to get it close. That's especially the case when the greens are firm, which unfortunately you didn't get to see or experience.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2009, 06:40:46 PM »
Sean,

I agree that GC is primarily an aerial golf course. There are only a limited number of times that a ground approach is preferable. But there are lots of times where a lower flighted and spun approach shot that lands short of the pin and then bounces up to a tier or works a slope is the best way to get it close. That's especially the case when the greens are firm, which unfortunately you didn't get to see or experience.

David

Ok, I know what you are saying.  I was thinking about ground game as in using the contours surrounding (and sometimes contours in the greens) the greens to one's advantage.  Furthermore, your idea of a low flighted ball skipping up tiers to what are often raised, shallow and angled greens with some sort of trouble short doesn't strike me as a percentage play unless one is very, very, very good.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2009, 08:44:14 PM »
Sean,

Because of the sluggish conditions you didn't get to see it, but the internal contours of the greens provide for a lot of backboards and sideboards that can be very useful in adding effective depth to a green. The other way to add a lot of effective depth is to work the angles from the fairways. Take #2 for example (the short par-4 over the ravine). From the left edge of the fairway, the green is just slightly angled and you get a deep green and can play all kinds of shots. But over on the safer and more generous right side, you have very little depth and a green that tilts away to the left off the side bunkers. All you can hit there is a very high and soft shot. Also, while you saw a lot of truly angled greens, half the greens face head-on to the fairway as long you are in the right position, and from there you can work the types of shots I was discussing. You are right in that it takes a very good player to successfully handle the course.

Regards

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2009, 01:59:52 AM »
Sean,

Because of the sluggish conditions you didn't get to see it, but the internal contours of the greens provide for a lot of backboards and sideboards that can be very useful in adding effective depth to a green. The other way to add a lot of effective depth is to work the angles from the fairways. Take #2 for example (the short par-4 over the ravine). From the left edge of the fairway, the green is just slightly angled and you get a deep green and can play all kinds of shots. But over on the safer and more generous right side, you have very little depth and a green that tilts away to the left off the side bunkers. All you can hit there is a very high and soft shot. Also, while you saw a lot of truly angled greens, half the greens face head-on to the fairway as long you are in the right position, and from there you can work the types of shots I was discussing. You are right in that it takes a very good player to successfully handle the course.

Regards

David

Yes, there are holes whereby a player can bounce shots up and around, but not all that many not matter which angle one approaches from - which was my original point about the limited ground game options at GC.  For better or worse, GC is mainly an aerial course and I would be surprised if many people tried the ground game very often with their approaches.

Ciao

New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOVERNORS CLUB - The Yank is Pleasantly Surprised
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2009, 07:57:00 AM »
Here's a little tidbit about GC.  It's the home course of one gracious southern gentlemen - Ed Morrissett - dad of our beloved doyen of gca.com.  JC

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back