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Mike_Cirba

« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 10:31:07 PM by MikeCirba »

Mike_Cirba


TEPaul

Michael:

Nice finds. As you know it doesn't surprise me at all about Myopia and Leeds. I've been on record for years as suspecting and saying Myopia may've been the first really good architecture in America and it just seems like these old articles (probably unseen and unanalyzed for a century) just keep finding their way out of the woodwork and saying as much.

Leeds compared to Macdonald seems to have been a pretty private and publicity shy man with his course (courses) compared to the way Macdonald was just beginning to approach it all at this time and with his NGLA that was shortly to begin its development when this article was written.

The thing to note as well is that Leeds was apparently abroad quite a bit before and leading up to and through what he did at Myopia. One of the reasons is he was a world class sailor too (I believe he also sailed around the world) and I think may've even been involved in America Cup competition back then which as you know was both over there and over here and a very big deal in his time.

As one of those so-called "amateur/sportsmen" of that time Leeds was sort of the definition of it but unlike some of the others to come who were pretty democratically minded, Leeds was pretty much the social martinet and apparently proud of it.

But his place in the development of American golf course architecture is undeniably extremely significant and that's proven by the fact that most all the other guys from back then checked it out very seriously and apparently came away with the highest of praise about it.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
I don't know why the review was pulled from Ran's Courses By Country, but everytime Myopia is mentioned I look at the review (I bookmarked it because I am a pyscho) http://www.golfclubatlas.com/myopiahunt1.html and drool over this place.  It just looks awesome to me.  Tom, you should take the time to write a total review of the course.  I would like to read it and I am sure you would probably learn a thing ort two by writing it.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
This is an extraordinary find. For my purpose it strengthens the idea that the grass seed specialist, Reginald Beale, had a significant impact on architecture.

Note the suggestion that the turf conditions at Sunningdale were also exceptional at this time - possibly superior to those at Myopia, which the professionals all felt was the best turf conditions at this time.

Reginald Beale was involved with the seeding of Sunningdale, and also with Myopia. However it is unclear how much Leeds relied on Beale's involvement - he may have simply visited Myopia when he seeded at The Country Club.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
There seems to be a common thread that stitched together all those early, high quality architectural endeavors, much of their inspiration came from the very 'best' stuff found in the UK. As noted, Leeds went abroad, but even as he got his 'start' by scouring the highly rated Shinnecock, he was seeing a course that at the time was the work of Scotsmen, the two Willies-  Davis and Dunn.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0




In some respects, it seems Nuzzo was channeling Leeds at Myopia with this bunker at Wolf Point.

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
I don't know why the review was pulled from Ran's Courses By Country, but everytime Myopia is mentioned I look at the review (I bookmarked it because I am a pyscho) http://www.golfclubatlas.com/myopiahunt1.html and drool over this place.  It just looks awesome to me.  Tom, you should take the time to write a total review of the course.  I would like to read it and I am sure you would probably learn a thing ort two by writing it.

Ciao

Sean,
Thanks for the link. Having just visited the course review, it's easy to see the resemblance with Essex County Club and why John Updike developed a sense of humor about his golf game.

Next!

Mike_Cirba

I was sent another related article by someone who does not particpate here, but who lurks.

I would ask that person if they are ok with me posting that article here.   Please just send me an email and let me know either way.

Thanks.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Myopia is one of my all-time favorite golf experiences. What I liked most was the original, in-your-face, who-cares about the British design sense. It really breaks patterns and molds. Very much like Oakmont in that it was a set of visionaries who simply did their own thing and be-damned about anyone else.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mike - Since when has an article become proprietary? Post please.

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
good stuff Mike, thanks

Myopia is in my top 10 list of USA courses i'd like to play...pictures of it are just AWESOME!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

TEPaul

"Tom, you should take the time to write a total review of the course.  I would like to read it and I am sure you would probably learn a thing ort two by writing it."

Sean:

I'll definitely consider it because in the last three years or so I sure have studied it and its history about as much as any course I know so for me to write a comprehensive review of it would be a snap. But I too would like to know why Ran's review got pulled.

But I'll tell you one thing, and it might have something to do with why Ran's review got pulled----and that is if the same analytical foolishness happens on here over Myopia as has on here over Merion, I doubt this site will see the light of day with Myopia's cooperation in 200 years.

Oh sure, I know the drill and the refrain from some on here, because I've heard it so many times before----eg "I love golf course architecture, and I'm soooo interested in the history of a club and course I've never even seen before but nevertheless I have a right to know anything and everything and to have every bit of information any club possesses and if I don't get it from them that must mean both they and their friends must be hiding something about their history, their course and their architect."

And I'm not talking about you Seanerino, that's for certain-----but you've been on here long enough to see the hand-writing on the wall! 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 08:01:56 AM by TEPaul »

Mike_Cirba

The following from a former contributor here.   If he wants me to credit him, he can just let me know.


Mike_Cirba

The above article came from Tom MacWood who has evidently been following some of the recent discussion and news articles.

He asked if I could post his following commentary;

Please by all means use my name. And if you could, while you are at it, add these comments:

Here is another praiseworthy article from the same timeframe. There is a lot of interesting material in this article. Alex Findlay was Kirkaldy and Herd's host; he was also the chaperone for Vardon & Ray, and also Ben Sayer, on their respective visits. Findlay worked for Wright & Ditson, the sporting goods company, and I suspect there is a connection there somewhere.

It is also interesting that Leeds' name is not used, nor the other Myopia member. I suspect that other fellow was either Leeds companion at the time James Parker (former chairman of the greens committee) or his friend FS Blake, who made at least one trip abroad with Leeds to study golf architecture. Boston at the time was loaded with architectural afficinados: Windeler, Lockwood, Shaw, Corey, Wylde, to name a few - a number of these gentlemen were Englishmen and traveled back home often - and you can add professionals like Ross, Findlay, Pickering to the list. Boston really was the epicenter for early American golf architecture.

I find it interesting that Kirkaldy & Herd associated Willie Campbell with Myopia. Today Myopia is not aware of any Campbell connection. Kirkaldy & Herd were decent architects in their own right, Herd, I think, was better than decent. He was responsible for Halifax, seem on another ongoing thread. Herd's visit to America proceeded HH Barker's (his protege) visit by one year - not a coincidence I think.

TM


TEPaul

"Today Myopia is not aware of any Campbell connection."


That's true as it relates to a connection with Campbell laying out Myopia's original nine in 1894. It appears their connection to Campbell that they're aware of is that he played tournament golf using the name of Myopia for perhaps a year or two (apparently in 1896-7).

Myopia's administrative record lists three members, Appleton, Merrill and Gardner, as laying out the original nine hole course in the early spring of 1894. BTW, Appleton had a six hole golf course on his own estate in 1893 which preceded golf at Myopia Hunt Club and was apparently one of the first golf courses in Massachusetts.

It seems unlikely Campbell had even emigrated to America when those three members laid out the original nine in early spring 1894. The first tournament was held in June 1894 and Herbert Leeds from Brookline CC won it.

It is interesting that whomever wrote that 1906 Boston Globe article posted above did not mention the names of the members who walked around that day with Kirkaldy and Herd when they played Myopia particularly since one of them, according to Kirkaldy, knew more about the architctural details of some well known holes abroad than he did.  ;) (Clearly that man was Leeds because it is well known by the club forever that his particular habit of improving the course over the years was to watch what others did on the course and then do something architecturally about it if he felt like it. He was famously known from having white chips in his pocket which he would throw on the ground to mark a new bunker placement).

That would indicate basically one of two things to me since by 1906 there was no question with those in America who knew much about golf and architecture who Myopia's architect was:

1. That newspaper writer didn't know much of anything about Myopia the club and course.
2. The two members (one of which was very likely Leeds) did not want him to mention their names in the newspaper.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 04:45:38 PM by TEPaul »

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
There seems to be a common thread that stitched together all those early, high quality architectural endeavors, much of their inspiration came from the very 'best' stuff found in the UK. As noted, Leeds went abroad, but even as he got his 'start' by scouring the highly rated Shinnecock, he was seeing a course that at the time was the work of Scotsmen, the two Willies-  Davis and Dunn.


Jim,

I tend to agree. It is my sense that there was much discussion and sharing of ideas between a group of gentlemen in those early years. That would be an interesting study to develop wouldn't it? All the names of those men, how they related to one another, and what they learned from one another.

How cool would it have been to be in on some of those conversations, as often as not after actually playing a competitive round with each other on these golf courses. And in most cases they would have been drinking and smoking together. Even the way they traveled in those days would have lent itself to some wonderful relationship-making and sharing. Also men interacted in those days much different than how we do today.

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