[Jim_Kennedy]

Sir Bob,
In his short span on the US Tour Bobby Locke won 11 times, came in second 10 times, had 8 third place finishes and came in 4th five times. He came in fourth place or better in 34 out of the 59 tournaments he entered during this period. He is considered to be the 'best player' to have never won the Masters.
Since you've had the great fortune to tee it up with Bobby Locke and witness his exquisite putting first hand, why do you think he never won the Masters?

 

[Bill_McBride]

It was also interesting to hear Jim Nantz (I think it was he) say that Gary Player was the first famous South African player.  The Masters is about the only important event Bobby Locke didn't win.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Bill,
Player said that in the 100 or so rounds he played with Locke he only saw him 3-putt once. Amazing.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Jim Kennedy,

I believe that Bobby Locke had an unusual putting style, with both elbows pointing in opposite directions, in a straight line.

I've never seen anyone else putt with that style/method.

[SL_Solow]

Pat;  What about Leo Diegel?  Both elbows out was called "Diegeling" before both of our times.

[mike_beene]

Wasn't Locke closed stance and more closed putter face? Player may have copied it to some degree.

[Bill_McBride]

Pat;  What about Leo Diegel?  Both elbows out was called "Diegeling" before both of our times.

Herbert Warren Wind conjugated the verb in an article:  "I Diegel, you Diegel, he/she Diegels" etc etc.  Funny stuff.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
Here's a photo of Diegel. This boy would drive you nuts if he was sitting next to you in a diner.



...and here's Locke, elbows out, but nowhere near as pronounced as Leo.


I've read that he was a 'short' hitter, although I haven't seen any yardages, and that to make up for his lack of distance he played a pronounced hook. He never won our Open or the Masters, but 4 British Opens and 9 SA Opens were his.

Could a player in his era, one who really hooked the ball, have much of a chance at Augusta?


Mike,
I read that he closed the face going back but squared it at impact, all from a closed stance ( somewhat like Briny Baird).

[Rich Goodale]

I knew a scratch golfer in the 80's in Scotland who Diegeled.  Ugly but effective.

Bill Mcb

It was Darwin and not Wind who conjugated the verb "to Diegel."  I don't think that Wind wrote or thought that way.

[Bill_McBride]

I knew a scratch golfer in the 80's in Scotland who Diegeled.  Ugly but effective.

Bill Mcb

It was Darwin and not Wind who conjugated the verb "to Diegel."  I don't think that Wind wrote or thought that way.

It's true that Darwin had a much more whimisical style.  I shall delve into the McBride archives tonight, Balvenie close at hand, and figure out where Darwin said that. 

[Jim Nugent]

Locke only played the Masters four times, if I count right.  Best finish was 10th.  He played 7 U.S. Opens, and had 5 top 5's.  Easy to believe that if he had played more Opens, he could have won some.  

Can't be sure, but in Jim Kennedy's picture of Locke, it looks like he kept his wrists still while putting, and used more of a shoulder motion.  Anyone know?  

Last, I remember seeing photos around 45 years of Locke at the top of his backswing.  My memory is that he bent his left arm a great deal.  Does anyone know if that is right, or am I confusing him with someone else?  

[JESII]

Jim,

Just out of curiosity, what exactly in that photo makes you think Locke kept his wrists still while putting?

[Ken Moum]

Jim,

Just out of curiosity, what exactly in that photo makes you think Locke kept his wrists still while putting?

Valid question.  The fact that Locke was known to have "hooked" his putts make me think he used his hands a bit.

On thing I will note is that pointing your left elbow toward the hole is a valuable trickif you sometimes suffer a breakdown of the wrist.

By pointing the elbow there, you turn the hinger of the left wrist so it is parallel to the putter face. So, if you do break down a bit, instead of the face shutting and causing a pull, the face stays square.

Overall, I think it's better have no breakdown, but this is a fair alternative.

Ken

[Jed Peters]

I made Huntley putt like Locke two weeks ago.

He made the putt.

[Bob_Huntley]

Sir Bob,
In his short span on the US Tour Bobby Locke won 11 times, came in second 10 times, had 8 third place finishes and came in 4th five times. He came in fourth place or better in 34 out of the 59 tournaments he entered during this period. He is considered to be the 'best player' to have never won the Masters.
Since you've had the great fortune to tee it up with Bobby Locke and witness his exquisite putting first hand, why do you think he never won the Masters?

 

Sir Bob,
In his short span on the US Tour Bobby Locke won 11 times, came in second 10 times, had 8 third place finishes and came in 4th five times. He came in fourth place or better in 34 out of the 59 tournaments he entered during this period. He is considered to be the 'best player' to have never won the Masters.
Since you've had the great fortune to tee it up with Bobby Locke and witness his exquisite putting first hand, why do you think he never won the Masters?

 

Jim,

Locke only played the Masters four times, if I count right.  Best finish was 10th.  He played 7 U.S. Opens, and had 5 top 5's.  Easy to believe that if he had played more Opens, he could have won some.   

Can't be sure, but in Jim Kennedy's picture of Locke, it looks like he kept his wrists still while putting, and used more of a shoulder motion.  Anyone know?   

Last, I remember seeing photos around 45 years of Locke at the top of his backswing.  My memory is that he bent his left arm a great deal.  Does anyone know if that is right, or am I confusing him with someone else? 

Jim,

He bent everything. He always used a pronounced draw and when he started winning tournaments and making some money on his first tour of the US, the American players and Lloyd Mangrum in particular, managed to get the Superintendants at the tournament courses to put the pins almost to the right edge of the greens. Somehow it didn't stop him from scoring well.

I could be wrong about this but Locke went from a very skinny boy golfer to a rather rotound adult post WWII and he did enjoy a beer or two. I wondered if the climbs at ANGC might have taken the steam out of him. described him.

Bob

[Bill Shamleffer]

From 1946 to 1959 Locke has the following stats:

The Open - 10 starts - 4 wins, 8 top 10s
US Open - 7 starts – two 3rds, two 4ths, & one 5th.
Masters - 4 starts - (21st, 13th, 10th, 14th)
PGA Tour - 15 total wins - 11 wins in 59 starts over 2.5 year period.

     (Those 15 "Tour" wins include the 4 Open Championships.  When the PGA Tour changed the status of  The Open Championship as a "Tour" event, they also changed the the status of ALL past Open Championships for the PGA Tour Records.  So even though in some years when Bobby Locke won the Open Championship Bobby Locke never set foot in the US and was not a member of the US PGA Tour for those years, his Open wins in those years count as PGA Tour wins.)

[Bob_Huntley]

Here is a good article on Locke.

http://www.ingolfwetrust.com/players/Hall-Of-Fame/Bobby-Locke/index.aspx


Bob

[Jim Nugent]

Jim,

Just out of curiosity, what exactly in that photo makes you think Locke kept his wrists still while putting?

The photo shows him following through on the putt.  His right wrist looks bent, in a similar position to where it would be when he addressed the putt.  If he used a lot of wrist, I think his right wrist would look straight.

That's my half-assed idea, anyway.  Curious to see if I'm off base. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Bob,
What a sad ending for him and his family.

I think what he and Peter Thomson did at the Open, winning it 4 times each in the 10 years between '49 and '58, was rather impressive. Only Max Faulkner in '51 and Ben Hogan in'53 were able to keep it from being a two- man decade.

[Jim Nugent]

A quote from Locke on how he putts:

"Mechanically, I attempt never to allow independent hand action into the shot. I try to keep the same relationship from my left elbow to the head of my putter, throughout both back & forward swings."

Also, someone who claimed Locke gave him private putting lessons, said Locke always tried to  "lock the left wrist on the forward stroke" of the putt. 

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

kmoum,

Two British scientists, in a book about golf, dispelled the myth that putts could be hooked or sliced ..... they can't.

Jim Kennedy,

The picture of Locke is after impact while the picture of Diegel is at address.

I believe the two had similar styles at address and in their putting motion.

[Peter Pallotta]

Jim K - good topic.

Jim N - fwiw, that's exactly what I saw, i.e. a 'pronated' left wrist and 'supinated' right wrist after impact, which suggested that BL 'de-lofted" his putter (for better roll?) at address and then used a shoulder turn/arm swing kind of stroke.

Jim K - you know, ever since I watched Nicklaus finishing fifth at 58 years old, I've thought that what Augusta tested most and best was iron play; it's a 2nd shot golf course in the best sense of the word. Sure, you have to putt well, but more so you have to hit your mid and long irons beautifully, and smartly. I wonder if BL struggled a bit with the turf there at Augusta, so different - I'd imagine - from that of the British links courses

Peter 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
I just found these photos of Locke a few minutes ago:



.... and also this sequence, from start of swing through finish:





His elbows appear to be pointed out, slightly, but nothing like Diegel.
It also shows his wrist action was as Jim Nugent suspected, minimal, but here's his own explanation of his putting stroke: "I have always thought of the ideal putter swing as matching that of a clock's pendulum, slow and very smooth, with the clubhead going through the same distance it goes back. Thus, in returning the putter to the ball, I try to swing it very smoothly at the same pace I swung it back. Again, there is no wrist action. The putter is swung by my hands, wrists and arms as a unit; my left wrist at impact has exactly the same relationship to my left arm that it had at address. This ensures that the putterblade remains square to my target through impact and well into the follow-through."

Peter Alliss said he observed Locke's shoulders moved "a little from right to left as he came into the ball. The stroke itself was rather a jabbing one, with little or no follow-through."

Sam Snead said:"What discouraged me was the way "Old Droopy Jowls" held his putter at the very tip and with his left hand far over the shaft, which was the same grip he used on all shots. ... He had a closed stance and hooked his putts. His grip was so light I thought he'd drop the stick. And when he putted, instead of keeping still, he swayed like a Bloomer girl!"




Peter,
Bob suggested that his weight caused him some problems at Augusta, tiring him out. That's very possible, look at Perry.
I have to think that someone who had such a pronounced hook would have trouble holding those second shots in the best spots.

[James Bennett]

I wonder if BL struggled a bit with the turf there at Augusta, so different - I'd imagine - from that of the British links courses

Peter 

Peter

Bob Huntley may be able to advise here.  Did Bobby Locke putt on warm climate greens in South Africa?  Or, was he primarily exposed to cool climate grasses, a ka British greens (and NE USA, and West Coast USA)?  If you are not used to warm climate grasses, they can be really difficult to maintain the same high putting standard on.

Not sure whether you meant the putting turf or the fairway turf.  It wouldn't surprise me if the putting turf may have proved more difficult for Bobby.

James B

[Jim Nugent]

Pat,
I just found these photos of Locke a few minutes ago:



.... and also this sequence, from start of swing through finish:





His elbows appear to be pointed out, slightly, but nothing like Diegel.
It also shows his wrist action was as Jim Nugent suspected, minimal, but here's his own explanation of his putting stroke: "I have always thought of the ideal putter swing as matching that of a clock's pendulum, slow and very smooth, with the clubhead going through the same distance it goes back. Thus, in returning the putter to the ball, I try to swing it very smoothly at the same pace I swung it back. Again, there is no wrist action. The putter is swung by my hands, wrists and arms as a unit; my left wrist at impact has exactly the same relationship to my left arm that it had at address. This ensures that the putterblade remains square to my target through impact and well into the follow-through."

Peter Alliss said he observed Locke's shoulders moved "a little from right to left as he came into the ball. The stroke itself was rather a jabbing one, with little or no follow-through."

The photo seems to contradict Alliss: Locke is following through.  And Bobby's own description of his putting is very different, too.  He says he tried to swing the putter very smoothly, with a pendulum motion, same speed forward as back, while Alliss calls it a jabbing stroke. 

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