News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0


The origins of Yeamans Hall go back to Sir John Yeamans, 3rd Governor of South Carolina. Yeamans Hall as depicted in a 1864 painting by R Knox, a prisoner of war. I believe this building was destroyed in a fire caused by an earthquake in 1886.  In tatters, by 1900 the plantation was sold.




Some may consider the Great Depression a lucky break for the Yeamans Hall Club.  235 homes and 36 holes of golf were originally planned, but given the circumstances of 1929, not long after after Seth Raynor completed the course (with the help of Charles Banks), it was thought prudent to limit the development to 18 holes and 35 homes on a sprawling 900 acre estate.  These homes and indeed the entire property are owned by 35 proprietary members.  It would seem the mantra of the owners is to retain the charm and ambience created by Seth Raynor and the Olmsted Brothers over 85 years ago.  The Olmsted Plan below.


Over the years the club remained in a secluded slumber until Hurricane Hugo hit in the fall of 1989.  The clubhouse, guest cottages, homes and course were badly damaged and required substantial repair.  At this time the club took the decision to renovate the course.  The Raynor Fund was created and with the plans discovered by Jim Yonce in the 1990s, Tom Doak was hired to breath life back into the course.  This work continued through 2009 and beyond.   

My overall impression is that YHC feels far more English than American.  One course in particular it reminds me of is Beau Desert. This is mostly due to the bold greens (often built up), bunker shapes and placement. Though, Raynor placed far more bunkers than I think Fowler would have ever dreamed.  I know little about the work of the man who helped Raynor complete the course, one Charles Banks, could it be that he is partly responsible for the preponderance of greenside sand?  In fact, the use of bunkers, or what I would call over-use, is one of the few criticisms I have of YHC.  To be specific, the bunkering around the greens was a bit predictable.  Often times, at least one left and right plus a hidden bunker or two in the rear or further back on the sides. That said, for the most part, the bunkering in the fairways was very smartly placed and varied.  The course has large areas of flatness or gentle slopes, but it also has significant movement on a handful of holes - making for a pleasant walk.  Most of the action of YHC is around the greens and they are tricky! Many are built up into a mini-volcano style and often times a built up ridge bisecting the green creates a false front situation.  It isn't just the contours and raised nature of the greens, the shapes also are ingenious and provide for a multitude of hole locations and varied angles to access the holes.  In short, Yeaman's greens are a sight to behold. 

The opening tee shot seems harmless enough.  The hole leans right, but centre of the fairway just short of a road works nicely. Anything too far right in the rough has an impaired view of the green due to a fairway bunker - which was a compelling element of the fairway bunkers I really liked and it reminded me of Little Aston.  Too far left means the meat of a freakish green must be dealt with.  When I say freakish I really mean it.  In the left of the green is a huge mound which once seen is a shock to the system. Especially when you consider that most of the greens are raised externally as it were with bunkers down the sides.  Not this one!

The definition of the green doesn't reveal itself until the golfer is much closer.  A sense of the scale of the green is revealed in the photo below. 


A closer look at this most remarkable green.




The 1st green from the 2nd tee.  Also notice the condition of the rough.  Length isn't an issue - its the hit and miss condition of the lie which is of most concern.  I really like this aspect of chance and it is also a reason why I wasn't so keen on many of the greenside bunkers.  The lie in the bunkers was very predictable and often times easier to deal with.


The second is a short two-shotter turning left around trees and with bunkers guarding the right side off the tee.  A prudent play of laying up leaves not much more than an 8 iron.  Often times the player can see the general movement of the green without seeing the details - especially if one pays attention to others approaching.  In this case of the second, the green flows a bit right, being more pronounced if one doesn't get it back to the hole.  Below is the approach.


The Short, or #3, features the trademark Raynor funky horseshoe depression in the centre of the green.  I don't find this version of the template particularly good despite the wonderful setting.  An aspect of this geometric design which I find intriguing are the various banks which can be used as ramps.




For the most part, the landing zones are generous and reward proper ball placement.  Proper placement often means getting into a position whereby the player attacks the odd ridges traversing greens head on.  Otherwise, these ridges can act as deflectors.  A look at the green from the proper side of the fairway.


From this distance one can see the shedding nature of the front ridge.




The 5th or Alps hole cannot be mistaken for Prestwick's daring contribution to design, but it is an excellent hole in its own right.  The bunkers do cause some partial blocking of the green and in this respect they serve once againt serve the dual purpose role again of being a visual and playing hazard - a theme which is often used at YHC.   


A look at the approach after a lay-up second.  There isn't a good way to outflank the sand.   


We next come to what may be the best hole on the course.  The Redan 6th is certainly the best par 3 at YHC and I think it is one of the very best one-shotters I have seen. 


Because the green turns far sharper than one would normally associate this version has rear rather than wing bunkers.




After facing 4, 5 and 6, one would have thought Raynor would have eased up for #7 - not so.  The Road Hole plays uphill and quite long and the green is very severe.  The left bunker is a much longer carry than it appears so this hole really is a thread the needle job unless you are a flat belly. The ridge sheds balls in both directions.


Good golf continues with the 8th.  We finally have a hole where the terrain at least partially defines the drive.  It is best to stay left, but the fairway gathers right to the low side leaving a more difficult approach to a green moving generally to the left.  Not only does one have to carry the bunker to gain the left side of the fairway, the edge of the left side acts a hogs back and anything turning left will probably spill down toward the trees. I found myself flag hunting more than once in trying to get myself to a relatively easy two putt position because of the difficulty of the greens.  More often than not this led to short siding myself.  This is a photo from just in front of the ladies tee.


Yeamans really shines on the holes when the land is more dynamic.




The front 9 closer features a great hazard which must be negotiated in one form or another if the player hopes to earn a routine 5.




While one must pull off the heroic drive, the remainder of the hole doesn't really excite as we move back into flatter territory.  The semi volcano greens I spoke of earlier is evident for the 9th green which lays wonderfully across the terrain. 


The back 9 opens with a short par 4 which is deceptively close to the house.  I like how the land moves left, but it is best to stay centre/right for the approach.  Another example of great fairway bunkering.  The approach is a cracker and one of the more attractive on the course.  Again, notice how a ridge is formed between the bunkers which essentially creates a false front and thus means to avoid this trouble caused by this feature its best to stay centre-right off the tee.  I don't think I have ever seen the design trait utilized so much as at Yeamans.  This ridge effectively turns a green light hole into one which should be approached with caution for all is not what it seems.


One can see from the old photos that time has softened some hard edges of the original design.


#11 is somewhat similar to the 8th in that staying left is best, but the land pushes the ball right.  What is different is that to gain a view of the green one must hit a long drive down the left.  Anything right leaves a blind approach - more bunker obscuring.  The two balls in the photo leave blind approaches.  You will notice that this green is raised.  By now, I was wondering if there were any grade levelish greens on the course other than #1. Like the bunkering of the greens, I would have liked to see a bit more variety in green sites.




Other than the flourish of bunkers, the only other big difference I can see between YHC and many classic English Heathland courses is the lack of a drivable par 4 or two.  The 12th is a shortish par 4, but like the 2nd and 10th, it isn't really drivable....the approach.


#13 is the third of the par 3s.  Its not in the class of #6, but this is a sound hole.  A close look at the green reveals the prominent ridge between the bunkers, but this time the false front area is not mowed as green.




The strategy on the 14th tee, like on most holes at YHC, is quite clear.  The previous few holes had relatively benign greens, but that all changes on #14.  The green runs viciously to the back left corner.  If this hole had more to think about off the tee it would be all-world.




A fairly typical Yeamans bunker left of the green.


Not since the 2nd have we been asked to shape a tee shot around trees.  Being naturally a distrusting person, I thought there were probably sneaky bunkers lurking out of sight right so I tried to hug the tree line.  That was a mistake as going right isn't bad at all, the angle of approach isn't the best, but one is safe. Once around the corner we face a raised semi-volcano green.  As is nearly always the case, bunkers are right and left.  I would surely have liked to see less of this and more grassy areas for recovery. The greens are plenty difficult and don't require such regimented protection.


I am not sure what all the fuss is over this Biarritz. This must be a very average example of the type.  All it seemed to me was pulling a wood and giving it a whack.  IMO a green like this would be better served as a shortish par 4 where the angle needs to be earned rather than given on the tee.


Mind you, the older version of the hole looks far more intimidating. It is also hard to tell if the front plateau is part of the green.


The penultimate hole is one of my favourites on the course and really helps to round out what is a terrific set of par 4s - the real strength of YHC.  The drive wants to naturally wander right, but a bunker awaits any pulled tee shot.


Once again the bunkering obscures the view of the green, but we get a strong sense of general right to left movement.




The course finishes with a somewhat reachable par 5.  Not a bad hole, but to be honest, its a bit of a disappointment.  A good drive between bunkers leaves a straightforward if blind, long approach.  Just don't fluff it!




This recent visit confirms my initial opinion that Yeamans is a very good course.  I would personally like to see a bit more variety in green sites with less sand being utilized, but I understand that Raynor did his thing and that was that.  Despite the lack of a drivable two-shotter, the par 4s are for me the strength of the course.  Predictably for older courses, the par 5s are not terribly special though both three-shotters have some elements to keep the player interested if not totally intrigued for the entire length of the hole. To some degree, YHC is better than can be assessed hole by hole.  The elegant routing surprisingly never strays too far from the clubhouse and the drive in from the front gate affords superb views of the first and the template Redan and Road holes.  YHC has a lot of wonderful features, but my misgivings about the bunkering still hold me back giving the course a higher grade.  As after the first visit, there was a twinge of sadness as I drove away because I am sure my opinion of the course would continue to improve with multiple plays, but one never knows if he will ever return.   2010.



Ciao
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 04:49:04 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sean,

Awesome work - this is a great tour. The coloring is really cool, especially for a course in North America, I can see why you think there is a strong resemblance to something in England.

The fairway bunkering is really interesting. I really enjoy seeing courses where the bunkers cut into the fairway and really challenge the golfer to form a plan off the tee.

There does seem to be a little too much "same old" in the green complexes, although the basic template is not something you see all the time so while not diverse on the course it is different from the "norm".


Mike Sweeney

The left bunker is a much longer carry than it appears so this hole really is a thread the needle jobbie unless you are a flat belly.

Sean ,

Thanks for another excellent photo essay.

Did you see The Masters?




Jon Heise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sean, great job!  Yeamans Hall does have a look like a lot of the UK courses you've posted.

I'd love to get a round or 6 there to see all the options and nuances that course would offer...
I still like Greywalls better.

BigEdSC

Sean
Great pictures.  Yeamans is a special place.  I was a summer member out there for a long time until I moved from Charleston last year. 

The rough is pretty tame right now because the grass is kind of dormant.  Wait until the summer.  The rough gets pretty nasty.  Especially the driving area to the left of #8.  But the greens definitely have a lot of movement to them.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sean, I had not thought of YH as English.  Good obsevation.  It does have that feel.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sean, I'm glad you enjoyed your round at Yeamans.  But I am sorry you did not get to see the course in its usual state.  In particular, under normal conditions, the greens are a real treat.  All the contours, both subtle and bold, spring to life when the conditions are right.  So I hope you can return again to experience the course in its full glory.  It is a special place that gets better every time I go.

I will add just a couple of pics to those Sean has posted.  First, here is a shot from the back of the first green showing its wonderful rumpled contours:



This is one of my favorite greens anywhere.  I'd love to hear from Tom Doak or Jim Urbina more about this green and whether it is close to Raynor's original design or a creation of Team Renaissance.

And here is a photo of the Biarritz swale on #16:



I agree with Sean that this hole doesn't seem to play quite right.  In all my rounds, I have never seen a ball run through the swale and onto the green.  Maybe its because it seems to always play uphill and into the prevailing wind.  But I think the fact the front half of the biarritz is maintained as fairway rather than green also contributes to a dilution of run.  Again, I'd be interested to hear what Tom and/or Jim think about this hole.

Ed

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sean,
What kind of US spring tour were you on?  You make me very jealous.  Great photo essay.

Mike Sweeney,
Very concise Masters summary.   

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mike

You know those those guys we call pros play a different sort of game  - no?  Alright, so you don't have to be a flat belly to carry that left bunker, luckily, its to no advantage anyway.  No, we didn't make it to the Masters, but we are loosely planning a visit in the future.

Big Ed

I don't know what the heck was feeding on me, but judging by the bug lumps on my legs, I don't think I want to experience the summer rough. 

John

No tour, just a quick holiday to the Carolinas where we mainly stayed on Kiawah.  I was lucky enough to get in a few games between bbquing and gator avoidance.  The damn things are everywhere around Kiawah - there should be laws about such things!

Ed O

I had no complaints about the condition of the course.  The greens looked rough, but putted well and I don't think they need much more speed than we experienced - at least with those hole locations.  In truth, I was very impressed with the rough areas as the lies were a lottery.  In general, the presentation of the course was very low key and very English like - something to be commended I think.  I do agree with you in that I think multiple plays would foster a higher respect for the course.  I experienced the same sort of awakening with Beau Desert - it took me a while to get past some of the things I didn't like and just get on with it. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 05:30:21 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great pictures of one of my favorite courses in the colonies.
I agree with most of your summary.  The par 5's are just good and it needs a truly short par 4.  However I would like to add this:
I think the par 3 3rd is unique and quirky.  If you are on the the green, but on the wrong side a 3 putt is almost certain.  It looks like you had a simple hole placement, right in the toilet seat?
I think 16 is a great match play hole, a three will often win here.  Is the front usually soft, maybe.
But you did not mention the pleasant walk with the tides of the Savannah River shifting and that this is perhaps America's first golf course/housing development.  Some say Augusta National was patterned after what the Yanks had first done here.  And yet, the homes I think add not detract from the experience.  Tom Doak calls the entry road one of golf's great entry roads.

I did have a bad mosquito issue there once, but all in all and great place to go 36!
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Gets Acquainted with a Mercan English Course
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2009, 02:41:01 PM »
Great pictures of one of my favorite courses in the colonies.
I agree with most of your summary.  The par 5's are just good and it needs a truly short par 4.  However I would like to add this:
I think the par 3 3rd is unique and quirky.  If you are on the the green, but on the wrong side a 3 putt is almost certain.  It looks like you had a simple hole placement, right in the toilet seat?
I think 16 is a great match play hole, a three will often win here.  Is the front usually soft, maybe.
But you did not mention the pleasant walk with the tides of the Savannah River shifting and that this is perhaps America's first golf course/housing development.  Some say Augusta National was patterned after what the Yanks had first done here.  And yet, the homes I think add not detract from the experience.  Tom Doak calls the entry road one of golf's great entry roads.

I did have a bad mosquito issue there once, but all in all and great place to go 36!

Lynn

Yes, Yeamans is a pleasant walk.  I don't think the 3rd or 16th are bad holes at all.  I am just not sure they were best served using the template system of design.  If I was gonna copy something I would make sure it was exceptional (like the 6th is) otherwise I just don't understand the point. 

The course certainly has an odd feel like there should be houses around it - well at least many more than now exist.  Perhaps the depression put a cabash on the development of Yeamans Hall, but I certainly call what is there now a course/housing development. I didn't notice more than about half a dozen houses around the entire property, but some may be hidden by trees and to be honest I didn't go looking for them. 

One thing I wondered about was the 14th.  There seems to be a bridge out in the distance.  Would it be possible to open up views to it without uncovering an eyesore? 

Ciao
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 05:31:30 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Gets Acquainted with a Mercan English Course
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2009, 02:44:26 PM »
For my tastes in great golf everyday, YH is right at the top of the list of courses I'd love to be a member of.  For a duffer who will never get into mid to low single digit handi and old enough to never even have a whiff of length off the tee anymore, but one who loves to walk and hit shots to interesting greens, then have plenty of thrills and spills once you get on those greens, I think YH has all the elements of everyday club greatness.  The place is dripping with ambiance and low country beauty that would never get old to me.  I can say the very same for CC of Charleston.  What a city and what a pair of wonderful good old fashion fun golf courses!

This thread fits nicely with the other thread nearby that talks about great flat holes.  The terrain at these two old Raynor courses was very flat, obviously.  But the frog eye or aligator eye FW bunkers, and flat greenside bunkers beside platform manufactured greens are great examples of making flat holes fun and never boring.

And, my renewed thanks Ed for the 'bailout'   ;) ;D ;D ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Gets Acquainted with a Mercan English Course
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2009, 03:11:02 PM »
Lynn, I agree with your assessment of #3.  I give that hole much higher marks than Sean does.  It was indeed the easiest pin placement and the wind wasn't really a factor that day.  Put the pin back left or back right with a little breeze and suddenly its no bargain.  Since long is dead, misses tend to be short, which makes putting through the horseshoe to a back cup troublesome.

Sean, I suspect the trees could be thinned behind #14 to expose more of the bridge.  But I absolutely love the serenity of the current view through the gap in the trees off the side of the green:



I don't have many pics which differ materially from those posted by Sean.  But if anyone is interested, here is a slideshow:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eko_gfl/sets/72157604290052984/show/

Ed

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Gets Acquainted with a Mercan English Course
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2009, 03:52:55 AM »
Lynn, I agree with your assessment of #3.  I give that hole much higher marks than Sean does.  It was indeed the easiest pin placement and the wind wasn't really a factor that day.  Put the pin back left or back right with a little breeze and suddenly its no bargain.  Since long is dead, misses tend to be short, which makes putting through the horseshoe to a back cup troublesome.

Sean, I suspect the trees could be thinned behind #14 to expose more of the bridge.  But I absolutely love the serenity of the current view through the gap in the trees off the side of the green:



I don't have many pics which differ materially from those posted by Sean.  But if anyone is interested, here is a slideshow:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eko_gfl/sets/72157604290052984/show/

Ed

Ed

Yes, that view was the reason I wondered if there was a view to the bridge. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 05:32:21 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Gets Acquainted with a Mercan English Course
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2009, 04:18:51 AM »
Great photos as ever Sean.

If I hadn't read your introduction and gone straight to the photo tour I would have thought that your winter tour of England had continued and Yeamans Hall was a heath/parkland course somewhere in the Midlands!  The number of raised greens reminds me of Fowler at Beau Desert.  Would Fowler have been an influence on Raynor?  I'm not sure of their respective timelines.

What does the word "Mercan" in the thread title refer to?
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Gets Acquainted with a Mercan English Course
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2009, 07:20:54 AM »
Great photos as ever Sean.

If I hadn't read your introduction and gone straight to the photo tour I would have thought that your winter tour of England had continued and Yeamans Hall was a heath/parkland course somewhere in the Midlands!  The number of raised greens reminds me of Fowler at Beau Desert.  Would Fowler have been an influence on Raynor?  I'm not sure of their respective timelines.

What does the word "Mercan" in the thread title refer to?

Andrew

I don't have any clue if Fowler was influential on Raynor.  If he was, it had to be channeled thru CBM.  Given that CBM did his "research" about the time Fowler was cranking up, I doubt it. 

Mercans = Americans = Yanks

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 11:34:28 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Gets Acquainted with a Mercan English Course
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2009, 10:50:00 AM »
Great photos and a very interesting review.  I am a little surprised you were not more impressed with the par threes.  6 of course is a top-notch Redan hole.  However, I think 3 and 16 are excellent as well. 

3's elusiveness:  the green is easy to find, but it does not guarantee a par.  The player has to hit a precise short iron to the day's flag.  Otherwise, he will be left with a very difficult two putt.  The hole focuses around the highly unique bathtub contour in the middle of the green.  For me, this type of short par three carries much more interest than a one with a small green because, while both require similar accuracy, the bigger green means the player has to hit a different shot each day.

16 certainly doesn't fit the typical mold of the Biarritz hole.  Indeed, I am sure there are many better pure Biarritz holes in Raynor's portfolio.  16 does not have a great run-up option (the swale in front was soft when I played it), and the shot is almost a hit-and-hope from 220.  Yet the green complex saves the hole.  I recall a y-shaped spine running through the green that made long putting very interesting.  This distinguishes the hole nicely from other Biarritz holes, where the back plateau of the green is usually very flat.

I am also surprised that you weren't more thrilled with the closer.  The opening and closing holes at Yeamans at almost perfect for me.  At 530 yards, the 18th is the length where the stronger has to seriously deliberate giving the green a go.  In a tight match, players have an opportunity to either make up ground with a 4 or 3 or lose ground with a 5 or 6.

The key to 18 is the bunker scheme some 50 yards short of the green.  After a good drive into a landing area that is riddled with bunkers, the player faces a decision for the second shot.  There is plenty of room between the bunkers and the green to bounce in a long approach, so it is very tempting to pull out a long iron and a fairway wood and give it a go.  However, the player is hitting from a downhill lie, and a low screamer will almost certainly find these bunkers.  The length of the ensuing recovery shot makes it awkward, and the player will rue his decision to go for the green. 

It is much more effective to have bunkers 50 yards short of the green on a par five than directly at greenside.  The latter leaves a very easy recovery for the good player while providing serious difficulties for the approach of the weaker player.  Moving bunkers 50 yards from the green makes recovery much more difficult while still keeping the bunkers in play for long approaches.  Furthermore, the shorter hitter is left with an easier third shot, thus equalizing the hole for shorter and longer hitters.  Overall, 18 is a fun finish that comes after a series of brutes at 13-17.  The golfer can a finish off a good round in style, or he can be left wondering why he didn't play the hole better.

I think your comments about 14 are spot-on.  The driving area does not have anything special, but the green is outrageous and wonderful.  I wonder if Raynor wanted more interest on the tee shot, as he did at holes like 4 or 10?

Yeamans Hall is a fantastic classic layout.  It is, like any great course, best enjoyed under firm and fast conditions.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Gets Acquainted with a Mercan English Course
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2009, 05:54:42 PM »
Great photos and a very interesting review.  I am a little surprised you were not more impressed with the par threes.  6 of course is a top-notch Redan hole.  However, I think 3 and 16 are excellent as well. 

3's elusiveness:  the green is easy to find, but it does not guarantee a par.  The player has to hit a precise short iron to the day's flag.  Otherwise, he will be left with a very difficult two putt.  The hole focuses around the highly unique bathtub contour in the middle of the green.  For me, this type of short par three carries much more interest than a one with a small green because, while both require similar accuracy, the bigger green means the player has to hit a different shot each day.

16 certainly doesn't fit the typical mold of the Biarritz hole.  Indeed, I am sure there are many better pure Biarritz holes in Raynor's portfolio.  16 does not have a great run-up option (the swale in front was soft when I played it), and the shot is almost a hit-and-hope from 220.  Yet the green complex saves the hole.  I recall a y-shaped spine running through the green that made long putting very interesting.  This distinguishes the hole nicely from other Biarritz holes, where the back plateau of the green is usually very flat.

I am also surprised that you weren't more thrilled with the closer.  The opening and closing holes at Yeamans at almost perfect for me.  At 530 yards, the 18th is the length where the stronger has to seriously deliberate giving the green a go.  In a tight match, players have an opportunity to either make up ground with a 4 or 3 or lose ground with a 5 or 6.

The key to 18 is the bunker scheme some 50 yards short of the green.  After a good drive into a landing area that is riddled with bunkers, the player faces a decision for the second shot.  There is plenty of room between the bunkers and the green to bounce in a long approach, so it is very tempting to pull out a long iron and a fairway wood and give it a go.  However, the player is hitting from a downhill lie, and a low screamer will almost certainly find these bunkers.  The length of the ensuing recovery shot makes it awkward, and the player will rue his decision to go for the green. 

It is much more effective to have bunkers 50 yards short of the green on a par five than directly at greenside.  The latter leaves a very easy recovery for the good player while providing serious difficulties for the approach of the weaker player.  Moving bunkers 50 yards from the green makes recovery much more difficult while still keeping the bunkers in play for long approaches.  Furthermore, the shorter hitter is left with an easier third shot, thus equalizing the hole for shorter and longer hitters.  Overall, 18 is a fun finish that comes after a series of brutes at 13-17.  The golfer can a finish off a good round in style, or he can be left wondering why he didn't play the hole better.

I think your comments about 14 are spot-on.  The driving area does not have anything special, but the green is outrageous and wonderful.  I wonder if Raynor wanted more interest on the tee shot, as he did at holes like 4 or 10?

Yeamans Hall is a fantastic classic layout.  It is, like any great course, best enjoyed under firm and fast conditions.

JNC

Its probably heresy, but I wouldn't have minded seeing how the 16th could be made into a short par 4 as I really don't see the excitement as a long par 3.  Honestly, it was just grab a club and bash it deal.  There is trouble left and right so there isn't much strategy. 

18 is alright, but I am not sure it works well as a par 5.  For instance, the 9th has an infinitely more interesting drive and more interesting green.  Its a better hole, but it still lacks something for the second shot so it isn't a completely satisfactory 3 shotters.  The 18th drive reminded me of the 16th too much - a drive between bunkers.  That said, the blind 2nd is more interesting than the second on 9, but this is the best aspect of the hole.  Its no shame having mediocre par 5s as its very common, but I do think they could be made better.

Ciao   
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Will Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Gets Acquainted with a Mercan English Course
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2009, 09:07:45 PM »
The sixteenth works for me because it is one of the only places on the course where long hitter has to play a long iron. There is enough interest in the green to keep people honest. Not my favorite Biarritz, but still a solid hole that requires good golf to make a par.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Gets Acquainted with a Mercan English Course
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2009, 12:33:22 AM »
The sixteenth works for me because it is one of the only places on the course where long hitter has to play a long iron. There is enough interest in the green to keep people honest. Not my favorite Biarritz, but still a solid hole that requires good golf to make a par.

I tend to agree with this assessment.  I think the hole appears more favorably if you consider it not as a Biarritz, but rather as a tough long three with unique green contouring at a critical stage in the round.

Sean Arble:

I still think you underestimate the qualities of the second shot bunkering on 18.  As a long par four, this bunkering would only be in play for the shorter hitter looking to bounce in a long second, and the green would leave a wide target for the approaches of the better players.  As a short five, the bunkers serve to create temptation rather than pure penalization.  The penalty comes more for poor mental decision than for a weak physical shot.  For a game that is overwhelmingly mental, this sort of mental challenge resonates more.  In addition, the downhill lie of the second combines perfectly with the fairway bunkering to create even more uncertainty and interest.

I think the drive at 9 is more visually attractive, but not necessarily much more challenging or strategically effective.  The greensite at nine is more interesting than at the Home Hole.  However, the key to success in a par five is a multi-faceted second shot.  The 18th has it in spades, and the 9th does not.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Gets Acquainted with a Mercan English Course
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2009, 04:46:57 AM »
The sixteenth works for me because it is one of the only places on the course where long hitter has to play a long iron. There is enough interest in the green to keep people honest. Not my favorite Biarritz, but still a solid hole that requires good golf to make a par.

I tend to agree with this assessment.  I think the hole appears more favorably if you consider it not as a Biarritz, but rather as a tough long three with unique green contouring at a critical stage in the round.

Sean Arble:

I still think you underestimate the qualities of the second shot bunkering on 18.  As a long par four, this bunkering would only be in play for the shorter hitter looking to bounce in a long second, and the green would leave a wide target for the approaches of the better players.  As a short five, the bunkers serve to create temptation rather than pure penalization.  The penalty comes more for poor mental decision than for a weak physical shot.  For a game that is overwhelmingly mental, this sort of mental challenge resonates more.  In addition, the downhill lie of the second combines perfectly with the fairway bunkering to create even more uncertainty and interest.

I think the drive at 9 is more visually attractive, but not necessarily much more challenging or strategically effective.  The greensite at nine is more interesting than at the Home Hole.  However, the key to success in a par five is a multi-faceted second shot.  The 18th has it in spades, and the 9th does not.

JNC

As I said before, the second of #18 is the best part of the hole because I really like the centreline bunkering and in fact wish it were used more often.

Perhaps we disagree on what strategy is about.  I think of the best strategy (but not always desirable) as one where choices are on offer.  There probably aren't two driving holes in existence which starkly categorize strategy VS penal.  The 9th has as wide a range of choices off the tee as one can imagine and/or can suit any level of player because of the choices.  The 18th is a bowling alley tee shot between bunkers - imo the essence of penal.  That said, neither type of drive is always good or bad, both sorts of shots are necessary to create variety, but I think archies should be using more of the style of #9 than #18.  In the case of Yeamans, I think the superb variety of fairway bunkering (especially and quite strangely, considering the the very regimented greenside bunkering) and how often times their dual purpose of not only being a playing hazard, but also a visual obstacle makes more than ok to have a few bowling alley set ups.  However, if I am just comparing the drive of #9 to #18, there is no contest as to which is more interesting.  The 9th wins in a landslide because of the options.

In short, I think that if Yeamans could create the variety of green sites and what is required as well as the variety of fairway shots required I think the course would be nothing less than outstanding.  Of course, this is just my opinion, but the greens and their bunkering schemes are too repetitive to really consider the course with the best.  I don't know if that is down to the style of Raynor just not fitting in all time or maybe just because I didn't understand properly what what going on around the greens.  I suspect its a little of both as the greens are tricky and one can't possibly get a grip of them in go.  That is why I think given enough play, I could perhaps learn to love Yeamans, much like I eventually clicked with Beau Desert.

One final thought, I went through the Camargo pix on another thread and was amazed to see the huge difference in bunker style and placement.  The fairway bunkering at Yeamans looks to be far more aggressive and pervasive.  Ok, some of that is down due fairway width as loads of the bunkers at Camargo are stranded outside the fairway lines whereas loads of Yeamans start outside but cut eat into the fairways.  Does anyone know if the difference in fairway bunkers is down to the difference of terrain or maybe Carmargos have been altered drastically?

Ciao   
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 05:37:29 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
I am bumping this thread in an effort to explore the question(s) I posed in an earlier post.

"One final thought, I went through the Camargo pix on another thread and was amazed to see the huge difference in bunker style and placement.  The fairway bunkering at Yeamans looks to be far more aggressive and pervasive.  Ok, some of that is down due fairway width as loads of the bunkers at Camargo are stranded outside the fairway lines whereas loads of Yeamans start outside but cut eat into the fairways.  Does anyone know if the difference in fairway bunkers is down to the difference of terrain or maybe Carmargos have been altered drastically?"

Anybody have any insight?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Dunlop_White

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've been working on Yeamans for the USGA Architecture Archive, which will launch in the next couple of months on the USGA/Museum website. Superintendent, Jim Yonce, and past Asst. Pro, Jeff Fraim, collaborated on a wonderful Architecture Evolution Report in 2003, which will be posted with a lot of other historical materials soon. You can still get a sneak preview of this at my website, I think?

Anyway, Tom Doak and Jim Urbina continue to restore original elements of Raynor's design. Plans are afoot to soften the severity of the "double plateau" green at hole 1, expanding the plateaus for more pin locations. Also, Yonce and Fraim intend on updating their Architecture Evolution Report next year to encompass the modifications that have occurred since 2003.

Ed Oden

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've been working on Yeamans for the USGA Architecture Archive, which will launch in the next couple of months on the USGA/Museum website. Superintendent, Jim Yonce, and past Asst. Pro, Jeff Fraim, collaborated on a wonderful Architecture Evolution Report in 2003, which will be posted with a lot of other historical materials soon. You can still get a sneak preview of this at my website, I think?

Anyway, Tom Doak and Jim Urbina continue to restore original elements of Raynor's design. Plans are afoot to soften the severity of the "double plateau" green at hole 1, expanding the plateaus for more pin locations. Also, Yonce and Fraim intend on updating their Architecture Evolution Report next year to encompass the modifications that have occurred since 2003.

Dunlop, is this the same thing as in binders in the rooms at the clubhouse?

Ed

Dunlop_White

  • Karma: +0/-0


May very well be, but I don't know as I haven't stayed there.



« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 03:28:41 AM by Dunlop_White »

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back