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[Sean Arble]

On my recent travels to USA I stopped in the Carolinas for just shy of two weeks and took in a few games of golf.  First up is Yeamans Hall.  My overall impression was that the course seemed far more English than American.  YHC really felt like an English course and if I had to pick one specifically it reminded me of Beau Desert.  This is mostly due to the bold greens (often built up), bunker shapes and placement.  Though, Raynor placed far more bunkers than I think Fowler would ever have dreamed of.  In fact, the use of bunkers, or what I would call over-use, is one of the few criticisms I have of YHC.  To be specific, the bunkering around the greens was a bit predictable.  Often times, at least one left and right plus a hidden bunker or two in the rear or further back on the sides.  That said, for the most part, the bunkering in the fairways was very smartly placed and varied.  The course has large areas of flatness or gentle slopes, but it also has significant movement on a handful of holes - making for a pleasant walk.  Most of the action of YHC is around the greens and they are tricky!  Many are built up into a mini-volcano style and often times a built ridge bisecting the green creates a false front situation.  I would say the greens were running at 8-9 and they don't need to be much faster than that.  

The opening tee shot seems harmless enough.  The hole leans right, but centre of the fairway just short of a road works nicely.  Anything too far right in the rough has an impaired view of the green due to a fairway bunker - which was a very cool element of the fairway bunkers which I really liked and it reminded me of Little Aston.  Too far left means the meat of a freakish green must be dealt with.  When I say freakish I really mean it.  In the left of the green is a huge mound which once seen is a shock to the system.  Especially when you consider that most of the greens are raised externally as it were with bunkers down the sides.  Not this one!
   

A sense of the scale of the green is revealed in the photo below.  The features are huge which is fitting for this huge green.


The 1st green from the 2nd tee.  Also notice the condition of the rough.  Length isn't an issue - its the hit and miss condition of the lie which is of most concern.  I really like this aspect of chance and it is also a reason why I wasn't so keen on many of the greenside bunkers.  The lie in the bunkers was very predictable and often times easier to deal with.
 

The second is a short two-shotter turning left around trees and with bunkers guarding the right side off the tee.  The shot is a hard as you want to make it.  A prudent play of laying up leaves not much more than an 8 iron.  Often times the player can see the general movement of the green without seeing the details - especially if one pays attention to others approaching.  In this case of the second, the green flows a bit right, being more pronounced if one doesn't get it back to the hole.  

I spose the 3th is The Short and features the funky horseshoe depression in the centre of the green.  I didn't find the hole particularly good, but the setting is very cool.  


The thing I liked best about the hole was the on/off ramp.  For some reason a really dig these sort of design elements which serve a dual purpose.  


For the most part, the landing zones are generous and reward proper ball placement.  Proper placement often means getting into a position whereby the player attacks the odd ridges traversing greens head on.  These ridges can act as deflectors if one isn't attacking them head on. Below is the tee shot for #4.


A look at the green from the proper side of the fairway.


From this distance one can see the shedding nature of the front ridge causing the false front.


My playing partners informed me the 5th is the Alps hole.  My only response to that was something like oookkkay.  To be fair, the bunkers do cause some partial blocking of the green and in this respect they serve that dual purpose role again of being a visual and playing hazard.  I reckon this design technique is one of the real strengths of the tee to green play.  The hole is a very goodun and is probably the strongest of the opening quintet.  


A look at the approach which must traverse a front bunker.


Another good look.


We next come to what may be the best hole on the course.  The Redan 6th is certainly the best par 3 at YHC and I think it is one of the very best one shotters I have seen.  For me, the course is now starting to gather some pace and grab my attention.


Another thing about #6 is that we are afforded one more look at the remarkable 1st green.


After facing 4, 5 and 6, one would have thought Raynor would have eased up for #7.  Not so.  This hole plays quite long and the green is very severe.  The left bunker is a much longer carry than it appears so this hole really is a thread the needle jobbie unless you are a flat belly.  About now one should start to realize that the Sunday hole locations were in place.  Several hole locations were just hanging in the balance and would only work for greens running at single digit speeds.  This hole is very, very difficult.  The ridge sheds balls in both directions.  


Good golf continues with the 8th.  We finally have a hole where the terrain at least partially defines the drive.  It is best to stay left, but the fairway gathers right to the low side leaving a more difficult approach to a green moving generally to the left.  Not only does one have to carry the bunker to gain the left side of the fairway, the edge of the left side acts a hogs back and anything turning left will probably spill down toward the trees.I found myself flag hunting more than once in trying to get myself to a relatively easy two putt position because of the difficulty of the greens.  More often than not this lead to short siding myself.  This is a photo from just in front of the ladies tee.


Yeamans really shines on the holes with some movement.


The closer for the front 9 features a great hazard which must be negotiated in one form or another if the player hopes to earn a routine 5.  This is without question the best driving hole on the course.


While one must pull off the heroic drive, the remainder of the hole doesn't really excite as we move back into flatter territory.  Though the green is no gimme two putt.  The semi volcano greens I spoke of earlier is evident for the 9th green.


The back 9 opens with a short par 4.  I like how the land moves left, but it is best to stay centre/right for the approach.  Just another example of great fairway bunkering.


The approach is a cracker and one of the more attractive on the course.  Again. notice how a ridge is formed between the bunkers which essentially creates a false front.  I don't think I have ever seen the design trait utilized so much as at Yeamans.


#11 is somewhat like the 8th in that staying left is best, but the land pushes the ball right.  What is different is that to gain a view of the green one must hit a long drive down the left.  Anything right leaves a blind approach - more bunker obscuring.  The two balls in the photo leave blind approaches.  You will notice that this green is raised.  By now, I was wondering if there were any grade levelish greens on the course other than #1. Like the bunkering of the greens, I would have liked to see a bit more variety in green sites.


Other than the flourish of bunkers, the only other big difference I can see between YHC and many classic English Heathland courses is the lack of a drivable par 4.  The 12th is a shortish par 4, but like the 2nd and 10th, it isn't really drivable.

#13 is the third of the par 3s.  Its not in the class of #6, but this is a sound hole.  


A closer look at the green.  One can see the prominent ridge between the bunkers, but this time the false front area is not mowed as green.


The strategy on the tee, like on most holes at YHC, is quite clear.  


The last few holes had relatively benign greens, but that all changes on #14.  The green runs viciously to the back left corner.  If this hole had more to think about off the tee I reckon it would be all-world.


Not since the 2nd have we been asked to shape a tee shot around trees.  Being naturally a distrusting person, I thought there were probably sneaky bunkers lurking out of sight right so I tried to hug the tree line.  That was a mistake as going right isn't bad at all, the angle of approach isn't the best, but one is safe. Once around the corner we face a raised semi-volcano green.  As is nearly always the case, bunkers are right and left.  I would surely have liked to see less of this and more grassy areas to recover from.  The greens are plenty difficult and don't require such regimented protection.


I am not sure what all the fuss is over this Biarritz. This must be a very example of the type.  All it seemed to me was pulling a wood and giving it a whack.


The penultimate hole was one of my favourites on the course and really helps to round out what is a terrific set of par 4s - the real strength of YHC.  The drive wants to naturally wander right, but a bunker awaits any pulled tee shot.


Once again the bunkering obscures the view of the green, but we get a strong sense of a right to left general movement.


A closer look.


The course finishes with a somewhat reachable par 5.  Not a bad hole, but to be honest, its a bit of a disappointment.  A good drive between bunkers leaves a straightforward if blind long approach.  Just don't fluff it!


I really enjoyed my day at Yeamans Hall and think the course is good.  I would personally like to see a bit more variety in green sites, but I understand that Raynor did his thing and that was that.  I believe other than the 6th, the par 3s are not terribly special nor are the par 5s, though both 3 shotters have some elements to keep the player interested if not totally intrigued for the entire length of the hole.  I would recommend the course for anybody who is in Charleston and has the chance to give Yeamans a go.  Indeed I would like to see the course again if I ever revisit the area.  That said, I believe the course has shortcomings which preclude me from really praising it too highly and oddly it isn't down to the unnatural styling of much of the course.  It has much more to do with lack of variety with the green sites and how they are protected even though the raised semi-volcano surrounded by bunkers deal was very well done.  Even so, there was a twinge of sadness as I drove away because I am sure my opinion of the course would improve with multiple plays.



Ciao  









  

[Rob Rigg]

Sean,

Awesome work - this is a great tour. The coloring is really cool, especially for a course in North America, I can see why you think there is a strong resemblance to something in England.

The fairway bunkering is really interesting. I really enjoy seeing courses where the bunkers cut into the fairway and really challenge the golfer to form a plan off the tee.

There does seem to be a little too much "same old" in the green complexes, although the basic template is not something you see all the time so while not diverse on the course it is different from the "norm".

[Mike Sweeney]

The left bunker is a much longer carry than it appears so this hole really is a thread the needle jobbie unless you are a flat belly.

Sean ,

Thanks for another excellent photo essay.

Did you see The Masters?

[Jon Heise]

Sean, great job!  Yeamans Hall does have a look like a lot of the UK courses you've posted.

I'd love to get a round or 6 there to see all the options and nuances that course would offer...

[Ed Galbavy]

Sean
Great pictures.  Yeamans is a special place.  I was a summer member out there for a long time until I moved from Charleston last year. 

The rough is pretty tame right now because the grass is kind of dormant.  Wait until the summer.  The rough gets pretty nasty.  Especially the driving area to the left of #8.  But the greens definitely have a lot of movement to them.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Sean, I had not thought of YH as English.  Good obsevation.  It does have that feel.

[Ed Oden]

Sean, I'm glad you enjoyed your round at Yeamans.  But I am sorry you did not get to see the course in its usual state.  In particular, under normal conditions, the greens are a real treat.  All the contours, both subtle and bold, spring to life when the conditions are right.  So I hope you can return again to experience the course in its full glory.  It is a special place that gets better every time I go.

I will add just a couple of pics to those Sean has posted.  First, here is a shot from the back of the first green showing its wonderful rumpled contours:



This is one of my favorite greens anywhere.  I'd love to hear from Tom Doak or Jim Urbina more about this green and whether it is close to Raynor's original design or a creation of Team Renaissance.

And here is a photo of the Biarritz swale on #16:



I agree with Sean that this hole doesn't seem to play quite right.  In all my rounds, I have never seen a ball run through the swale and onto the green.  Maybe its because it seems to always play uphill and into the prevailing wind.  But I think the fact the front half of the biarritz is maintained as fairway rather than green also contributes to a dilution of run.  Again, I'd be interested to hear what Tom and/or Jim think about this hole.

Ed

[John Mayhugh]

Sean,
What kind of US spring tour were you on?  You make me very jealous.  Great photo essay.

Mike Sweeney,
Very concise Masters summary.   

[Sean Arble]

Mike

You know those those guys we call pros play a different sort of game  - no?  Alright, so you don't have to be a flat belly to carry that left bunker, luckily, its to no advantage anyway.  No, we didn't make it to the Masters, but we are loosely planning a visit in the future.

Big Ed

I don't know what the heck was feeding on me, but judging by the bug lumps on my legs, I don't think I want to experience the summer rough. 

John

No tour, just a quick holiday to the Carolinas where we mainly stayed on Kiawah.  I was lucky enough to get in a few games between bbquing and gator avoidance.  The damn things are everywhere around Kiawah - there should be laws about such things!

Ed O

I had no complaints about the condition of the course.  The greens looked rough, but putted well and I don't think they need much more speed than what we experienced - at least with those hole locations.  In truth, I was very impressed with the rough areas as the lies were a lottery.  In general, the presentation of the course was very low key and very English like - something to be commended I think.  I do agree with yo in that I think multiple plays would foster a higher respect for the course.  I experienced the same sort of awakening with Beau Desert - it took me a while to get past some of the things I didn't like and just get on with it. 

Ciao

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Great pictures of one of my favorite courses in the colonies.
I agree with most of your summary.  The par 5's are just good and it needs a truly short par 4.  However I would like to add this:
I think the par 3 3rd is unique and quirky.  If you are on the the green, but on the wrong side a 3 putt is almost certain.  It looks like you had a simple hole placement, right in the toilet seat?
I think 16 is a great match play hole, a three will often win here.  Is the front usually soft, maybe.
But you did not mention the pleasant walk with the tides of the Savannah River shifting and that this is perhaps America's first golf course/housing development.  Some say Augusta National was patterned after what the Yanks had first done here.  And yet, the homes I think add not detract from the experience.  Tom Doak calls the entry road one of golf's great entry roads.

I did have a bad mosquito issue there once, but all in all and great place to go 36!

[Sean Arble]

Great pictures of one of my favorite courses in the colonies.
I agree with most of your summary.  The par 5's are just good and it needs a truly short par 4.  However I would like to add this:
I think the par 3 3rd is unique and quirky.  If you are on the the green, but on the wrong side a 3 putt is almost certain.  It looks like you had a simple hole placement, right in the toilet seat?
I think 16 is a great match play hole, a three will often win here.  Is the front usually soft, maybe.
But you did not mention the pleasant walk with the tides of the Savannah River shifting and that this is perhaps America's first golf course/housing development.  Some say Augusta National was patterned after what the Yanks had first done here.  And yet, the homes I think add not detract from the experience.  Tom Doak calls the entry road one of golf's great entry roads.

I did have a bad mosquito issue there once, but all in all and great place to go 36!

Lynn

Yes, Yeamans is a pleasant walk.  I don't think the 3rd or 16th are bad holes at all.  I am just not sure there were best served using the template system of design.  If I was gonna copy something I would make sure it was exceptional (like the 6th is) otherwise I just don't understand the point. 

The course certainly has an odd feel like there should be houses around it - well at least many more than now exist.  Perhaps the depression put a cabash on the development of Yeamans Hall, but I certainly call what is there now a course/housing development.  I didn't notice more than about half a dozen houses around the entire property, but some may be hidden by trees and to be honest I didn't go looking for them. 

One thing I wondered about was the 14th.  There seems to be a bridge out in the distance.  Would it be possible to open up views to it without uncovering an eyesore? 

Ciao

[RJ_Daley]

For my tastes in great golf everyday, YH is right at the top of the list of courses I'd love to be a member of.  For a duffer who will never get into mid to low single digit handi and old enough to never even have a whiff of length off the tee anymore, but one who loves to walk and hit shots to interesting greens, then have plenty of thrills and spills once you get on those greens, I think YH has all the elements of everyday club greatness.  The place is dripping with ambiance and low country beauty that would never get old to me.  I can say the very same for CC of Charleston.  What a city and what a pair of wonderful good old fashion fun golf courses!

This thread fits nicely with the other thread nearby that talks about great flat holes.  The terrain at these two old Raynor courses was very flat, obviously.  But the frog eye or aligator eye FW bunkers, and flat greenside bunkers beside platform manufactured greens are great examples of making flat holes fun and never boring.

And, my renewed thanks Ed for the 'bailout'  

[Ed Oden]

Lynn, I agree with your assessment of #3.  I give that hole much higher marks than Sean does.  It was indeed the easiest pin placement and the wind wasn't really a factor that day.  Put the pin back left or back right with a little breeze and suddenly its no bargain.  Since long is dead, misses tend to be short, which makes putting through the horseshoe to a back cup troublesome.

Sean, I suspect the trees could be thinned behind #14 to expose more of the bridge.  But I absolutely love the serenity of the current view through the gap in the trees off the side of the green:



I don't have many pics which differ materially from those posted by Sean.  But if anyone is interested, here is a slideshow:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eko_gfl/sets/72157604290052984/show/

Ed

[Sean Arble]

Lynn, I agree with your assessment of #3.  I give that hole much higher marks than Sean does.  It was indeed the easiest pin placement and the wind wasn't really a factor that day.  Put the pin back left or back right with a little breeze and suddenly its no bargain.  Since long is dead, misses tend to be short, which makes putting through the horseshoe to a back cup troublesome.

Sean, I suspect the trees could be thinned behind #14 to expose more of the bridge.  But I absolutely love the serenity of the current view through the gap in the trees off the side of the green:



I don't have many pics which differ materially from those posted by Sean.  But if anyone is interested, here is a slideshow:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eko_gfl/sets/72157604290052984/show/

Ed

Ed

Yes, that view was the reason I wondered if there was a view to the bridge. 

Cioa

[Andrew Mitchell]

Great photos as ever Sean.

If I hadn't read your introduction and gone straight to the photo tour I would have thought that your winter tour of England had continued and Yeamans Hall was a heath/parkland course somewhere in the Midlands!  The number of raised greens reminds me of Fowler at Beau Desert.  Would Fowler have been an influence on Raynor?  I'm not sure of their respective timelines.

What does the word "Mercan" in the thread title refer to?

[Sean Arble]

Great photos as ever Sean.

If I hadn't read your introduction and gone straight to the photo tour I would have thought that your winter tour of England had continued and Yeamans Hall was a heath/parkland course somewhere in the Midlands!  The number of raised greens reminds me of Fowler at Beau Desert.  Would Fowler have been an influence on Raynor?  I'm not sure of their respective timelines.

What does the word "Mercan" in the thread title refer to?

Andrew

I don't have any clue if Fowler was influential on Raynor.  If he was, it had to be channeled thru CBM.  Given that CBM did his "research" about the time Fowler was cranking up, I doubt it. 

Mercans = Americans = Yanks

Ciao

[JNC_Lyon]

Great photos and a very interesting review.  I am a little surprised you were not more impressed with the par threes.  6 of course is a top-notch Redan hole.  However, I think 3 and 16 are excellent as well. 

3's elusiveness:  the green is easy to find, but it does not guarantee a par.  The player has to hit a precise short iron to the day's flag.  Otherwise, he will be left with a very difficult two putt.  The hole focuses around the highly unique bathtub contour in the middle of the green.  For me, this type of short par three carries much more interest than a one with a small green because, while both require similar accuracy, the bigger green means the player has to hit a different shot each day.

16 certainly doesn't fit the typical mold of the Biarritz hole.  Indeed, I am sure there are many better pure Biarritz holes in Raynor's portfolio.  16 does not have a great run-up option (the swale in front was soft when I played it), and the shot is almost a hit-and-hope from 220.  Yet the green complex saves the hole.  I recall a y-shaped spine running through the green that made long putting very interesting.  This distinguishes the hole nicely from other Biarritz holes, where the back plateau of the green is usually very flat.

I am also surprised that you weren't more thrilled with the closer.  The opening and closing holes at Yeamans at almost perfect for me.  At 530 yards, the 18th is the length where the stronger has to seriously deliberate giving the green a go.  In a tight match, players have an opportunity to either make up ground with a 4 or 3 or lose ground with a 5 or 6.

The key to 18 is the bunker scheme some 50 yards short of the green.  After a good drive into a landing area that is riddled with bunkers, the player faces a decision for the second shot.  There is plenty of room between the bunkers and the green to bounce in a long approach, so it is very tempting to pull out a long iron and a fairway wood and give it a go.  However, the player is hitting from a downhill lie, and a low screamer will almost certainly find these bunkers.  The length of the ensuing recovery shot makes it awkward, and the player will rue his decision to go for the green. 

It is much more effective to have bunkers 50 yards short of the green on a par five than directly at greenside.  The latter leaves a very easy recovery for the good player while providing serious difficulties for the approach of the weaker player.  Moving bunkers 50 yards from the green makes recovery much more difficult while still keeping the bunkers in play for long approaches.  Furthermore, the shorter hitter is left with an easier third shot, thus equalizing the hole for shorter and longer hitters.  Overall, 18 is a fun finish that comes after a series of brutes at 13-17.  The golfer can a finish off a good round in style, or he can be left wondering why he didn't play the hole better.

I think your comments about 14 are spot-on.  The driving area does not have anything special, but the green is outrageous and wonderful.  I wonder if Raynor wanted more interest on the tee shot, as he did at holes like 4 or 10?

Yeamans Hall is a fantastic classic layout.  It is, like any great course, best enjoyed under firm and fast conditions.

[Sean Arble]

Great photos and a very interesting review.  I am a little surprised you were not more impressed with the par threes.  6 of course is a top-notch Redan hole.  However, I think 3 and 16 are excellent as well. 

3's elusiveness:  the green is easy to find, but it does not guarantee a par.  The player has to hit a precise short iron to the day's flag.  Otherwise, he will be left with a very difficult two putt.  The hole focuses around the highly unique bathtub contour in the middle of the green.  For me, this type of short par three carries much more interest than a one with a small green because, while both require similar accuracy, the bigger green means the player has to hit a different shot each day.

16 certainly doesn't fit the typical mold of the Biarritz hole.  Indeed, I am sure there are many better pure Biarritz holes in Raynor's portfolio.  16 does not have a great run-up option (the swale in front was soft when I played it), and the shot is almost a hit-and-hope from 220.  Yet the green complex saves the hole.  I recall a y-shaped spine running through the green that made long putting very interesting.  This distinguishes the hole nicely from other Biarritz holes, where the back plateau of the green is usually very flat.

I am also surprised that you weren't more thrilled with the closer.  The opening and closing holes at Yeamans at almost perfect for me.  At 530 yards, the 18th is the length where the stronger has to seriously deliberate giving the green a go.  In a tight match, players have an opportunity to either make up ground with a 4 or 3 or lose ground with a 5 or 6.

The key to 18 is the bunker scheme some 50 yards short of the green.  After a good drive into a landing area that is riddled with bunkers, the player faces a decision for the second shot.  There is plenty of room between the bunkers and the green to bounce in a long approach, so it is very tempting to pull out a long iron and a fairway wood and give it a go.  However, the player is hitting from a downhill lie, and a low screamer will almost certainly find these bunkers.  The length of the ensuing recovery shot makes it awkward, and the player will rue his decision to go for the green. 

It is much more effective to have bunkers 50 yards short of the green on a par five than directly at greenside.  The latter leaves a very easy recovery for the good player while providing serious difficulties for the approach of the weaker player.  Moving bunkers 50 yards from the green makes recovery much more difficult while still keeping the bunkers in play for long approaches.  Furthermore, the shorter hitter is left with an easier third shot, thus equalizing the hole for shorter and longer hitters.  Overall, 18 is a fun finish that comes after a series of brutes at 13-17.  The golfer can a finish off a good round in style, or he can be left wondering why he didn't play the hole better.

I think your comments about 14 are spot-on.  The driving area does not have anything special, but the green is outrageous and wonderful.  I wonder if Raynor wanted more interest on the tee shot, as he did at holes like 4 or 10?

Yeamans Hall is a fantastic classic layout.  It is, like any great course, best enjoyed under firm and fast conditions.

JNC

Its probably heresy, but I wouldn't have minded seeing how the 16th could be made into a short par 4 as I really don't see the excitement as a long par 3.  Honestly, it was just grab a club and bash it deal.  There is trouble left and right so there isn't much strategy. 

18 is alright, but I am not sure it works well as a par 5.  For instance, the 9th has an infinitely more interesting drive and more interesting green.  Its a better hole, but it still lacks something for the second shot so it isn't a completely satisfactory 3 shotters.  The 18th drive reminded me of the 16th too much - a drive between bunkers.  That said, the blind 2nd is more interesting than the second on 9, but this is the best aspect of the hole.  Its no shame having mediocre par 5s as its very common, but I do think they could be made better.

Ciao   

[Will Smith]

The sixteenth works for me because it is one of the only places on the course where long hitter has to play a long iron. There is enough interest in the green to keep people honest. Not my favorite Biarritz, but still a solid hole that requires good golf to make a par.

[JNC_Lyon]

The sixteenth works for me because it is one of the only places on the course where long hitter has to play a long iron. There is enough interest in the green to keep people honest. Not my favorite Biarritz, but still a solid hole that requires good golf to make a par.

I tend to agree with this assessment.  I think the hole appears more favorably if you consider it not as a Biarritz, but rather as a tough long three with unique green contouring at a critical stage in the round.

Sean Arble:

I still think you underestimate the qualities of the second shot bunkering on 18.  As a long par four, this bunkering would only be in play for the shorter hitter looking to bounce in a long second, and the green would leave a wide target for the approaches of the better players.  As a short five, the bunkers serve to create temptation rather than pure penalization.  The penalty comes more for poor mental decision than for a weak physical shot.  For a game that is overwhelmingly mental, this sort of mental challenge resonates more.  In addition, the downhill lie of the second combines perfectly with the fairway bunkering to create even more uncertainty and interest.

I think the drive at 9 is more visually attractive, but not necessarily much more challenging or strategically effective.  The greensite at nine is more interesting than at the Home Hole.  However, the key to success in a par five is a multi-faceted second shot.  The 18th has it in spades, and the 9th does not.

[Sean Arble]

The sixteenth works for me because it is one of the only places on the course where long hitter has to play a long iron. There is enough interest in the green to keep people honest. Not my favorite Biarritz, but still a solid hole that requires good golf to make a par.

I tend to agree with this assessment.  I think the hole appears more favorably if you consider it not as a Biarritz, but rather as a tough long three with unique green contouring at a critical stage in the round.

Sean Arble:

I still think you underestimate the qualities of the second shot bunkering on 18.  As a long par four, this bunkering would only be in play for the shorter hitter looking to bounce in a long second, and the green would leave a wide target for the approaches of the better players.  As a short five, the bunkers serve to create temptation rather than pure penalization.  The penalty comes more for poor mental decision than for a weak physical shot.  For a game that is overwhelmingly mental, this sort of mental challenge resonates more.  In addition, the downhill lie of the second combines perfectly with the fairway bunkering to create even more uncertainty and interest.

I think the drive at 9 is more visually attractive, but not necessarily much more challenging or strategically effective.  The greensite at nine is more interesting than at the Home Hole.  However, the key to success in a par five is a multi-faceted second shot.  The 18th has it in spades, and the 9th does not.

JNC

As I said before, the second of #18 is the best part of the hole because I really like the centreline bunkering and in fact wish it were used more often.

Perhaps we disagree on what strategy is about.  I think of the best strategy (but not always desirable) as one where choices are on offer.  There probably aren't two driving holes in existence which starkly categorize strategy VS penal.  The 9th has as wide a range of choices off the tee as one can imagine and/or can suit any level of player because of the choices.  The 18th is a bowling alley tee shot between bunkers - imo the essence of penal.  That said, neither type of drive is always good or bad, both sorts of shots are necessary to create variety, but I think archies should be using more of the style of #9 than #18.  In the case of Yeamans, I think the superb variety of fairway bunkering (especially and quite strangely, considering the the very regimented greenside bunkering) and how often times their dual purpose of not only being a playing hazard, but also a visual obstacle makes more than ok to have a few bowling alley set ups.  However, if I am just comparing the drive of #9 to #18, there is no contest as to which is more interesting.  The 9th wins in a landslide because of the options.

In short, I think that if Yeamans could create the variety of green sites and what is required as well as the variety of fairway shots required I think the course would be nothing less than outstanding.  Of course, this is just my opinion, but the greens and their bunkering schemes are too repetitive to really consider the course with the best.  I don't know if that is down to the style of Raynor just not fitting in all time or maybe just because I didn't understand properly what what going on around the greens.  I suspect its a little of both as the greens are tricky and one can't possibly get a grip of them in go.  That is why I think given enough play, I could perhaps learn to love Yeamans, much like I eventually clicked with Beau Desert.

One final thought, I went through the Camargo pix on another thread and was amazed to see the huge difference in bunker style and placement.  The fairway bunkering at Yeamans looks to be far more aggressive and pervasive.  Ok, some of that is down due fairway width as loads of the bunkers at Camargo are stranded outside the fairway lines whereas loads of Yeamans start outside but cut eat into the fairways.  Does anyone know if the difference in fairway bunkers is down to the difference of terrain or maybe Carmargos have been altered drastically?

Ciao   

[Sean Arble]

I am bumping this thread in an effort to explore the question(s) I posed in an earlier post.

"One final thought, I went through the Camargo pix on another thread and was amazed to see the huge difference in bunker style and placement.  The fairway bunkering at Yeamans looks to be far more aggressive and pervasive.  Ok, some of that is down due fairway width as loads of the bunkers at Camargo are stranded outside the fairway lines whereas loads of Yeamans start outside but cut eat into the fairways.  Does anyone know if the difference in fairway bunkers is down to the difference of terrain or maybe Carmargos have been altered drastically?"

Anybody have any insight?

Ciao

[Dunlop_White]

I've been working on Yeamans for the USGA Architecture Archive, which will launch in the next couple of months on the USGA/Museum website. Superintendent, Jim Yonce, and past Asst. Pro, Jeff Fraim, collaborated on a wonderful Architecture Evolution Report in 2003, which will be posted with a lot of other historical materials soon. You can still get a sneak preview of this at my website, I think?

Anyway, Tom Doak and Jim Urbina continue to restore original elements of Raynor's design. Plans are afoot to soften the severity of the "double plateau" green at hole 1, expanding the plateaus for more pin locations. Also, Yonce and Fraim intend on updating their Architecture Evolution Report next year to encompass the modifications that have occurred since 2003.

[Ed Oden]

I've been working on Yeamans for the USGA Architecture Archive, which will launch in the next couple of months on the USGA/Museum website. Superintendent, Jim Yonce, and past Asst. Pro, Jeff Fraim, collaborated on a wonderful Architecture Evolution Report in 2003, which will be posted with a lot of other historical materials soon. You can still get a sneak preview of this at my website, I think?

Anyway, Tom Doak and Jim Urbina continue to restore original elements of Raynor's design. Plans are afoot to soften the severity of the "double plateau" green at hole 1, expanding the plateaus for more pin locations. Also, Yonce and Fraim intend on updating their Architecture Evolution Report next year to encompass the modifications that have occurred since 2003.

Dunlop, is this the same thing as in binders in the rooms at the clubhouse?

Ed

[Dunlop_White]

May very well be, but I don't know as I haven't stayed there.

[Dunlop_White]

you can view it here:

http://www.dunlopwhite.com/www.dunlopwhite.com/Design_Evolutions/Pages/Yeamans_Hall_Club.html

[Dunlop_White]

Here's that "Double Plateau" on Hole 1 at Yeamans. One pic is from 1927. The other is more current. The idea is to bring more pinable positions to this green.

[Sean Arble]

I still haven't been able to get Yeamans out of my mind - perhaps because it is so very English.  In any case, this whole Raynor deal has me intrigued.  I looked at the CC of Charleston and it seems to be a toned down version of Yeamans on even flatter land, but I like the look.  Does anybody have more pix?

I am also still curious about:

One final thought, I went through the Camargo pix on another thread and was amazed to see the huge difference in bunker style and placement.  The fairway bunkering at Yeamans looks to be far more aggressive and pervasive.  Ok, some of that is down due fairway width as loads of the bunkers at Camargo are stranded outside the fairway lines whereas loads of Yeamans start outside but cut eat into the fairways.  Does anyone know if the difference in fairway bunkers is down to the difference of terrain or maybe Carmargos have been altered drastically?

Anybody have any insight?

Ciao

[Sean Arble]

I found out some interesting info about YHC.

-the property is about 900 acres

-originally the idea was for two courses and 250 homes as a resort to be designed by Olmsted with Raynor as the designer of the courses

-the '29 Crash meant only 35 homes and one course were built

-to own a house one must be a member

-the rough is terrific because it is not irrigated or fertilized

-the club has an interesting association of summer golfers which is independent from the club in organization but overseen by the club

-I thought the bar area adjacent to the pro shop was weird, but apparently this is the hang out of the summer association


Are any other clubs arranged in this way?  It strikes me as unique.

Any answers to my query below?

Ciao 

[Mike Sweeney]

Are any other clubs arranged in this way?  It strikes me as unique.

Mountain Lake and Fishers Island with ML leading the way in 1915. Mountain Lake got in before a Florida land bust so it has 120 some houses and a guest house. See nearby Lekarica (originally Highland Park GC by Stiles and Van Kleek) for what happens when a Florida land bust occurs. Fishers struggled for years and finally the white elephant of their old clubhouse/guest house "mysteriously" burned down. Bald Peak in New Hampshire has the same model, and to a lesser degree, I believe Wianno, Sleepy Hollow, Mid Ocean and Whippoorwill had similar models that have now evolved to more traditional club models.  Sleepy still has some homes on their property.

In terms of "off season" memberships, Prouts Neck in Maine has one for the shoulder season.

[Michael Whitaker]

I found out some interesting info about YHC.

-the club has an interesting association of summer golfers which is independent from the club in organization but overseen by the club

-I thought the bar area adjacent to the pro shop was weird, but apparently this is the hang out of the summer association

Sean - the "Summer Members" are not allowed in the clubhouse.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I found out some interesting info about YHC.

-the property is about 900 acres

-originally the idea was for two courses and 250 homes as a resort to be designed by Olmsted with Raynor as the designer of the courses

-the '29 Crash meant only 35 homes and one course were built

-to own a house one must be a member

-the rough is terrific because it is not irrigated or fertilized

-the club has an interesting association of summer golfers which is independent from the club in organization but overseen by the club

-I thought the bar area adjacent to the pro shop was weird, but apparently this is the hang out of the summer association


Are any other clubs arranged in this way?  It strikes me as unique.

Any answers to my query below?

Ciao 

I believe Tom Doak at one time called this the first golf course/housing development.  If they were going to build 250 houses, I trust they were going to ultimately use another entry road.  There are some who feel Bobby Jones was influenced by Yeamans when he conceived Augusta National.
I agree this place has not been "Americanized" much.  When playing there or signing in to play, you could very well be in the British Isles.
It is a great experience, unless you are there in mosquito season.

[Ed Oden]

Sean - the "Summer Members" are not allowed in the clubhouse.

Michael, I believe the clubhouse is closed during the summer.  So I'm not sure summer members are excluded any more than regular members.  I love Yeamans.  But I wouldn't wish an August round there on my worst enemy.  Heat, humidity and bugs straight from hell.

[Michael Whitaker]

Sean - the "Summer Members" are not allowed in the clubhouse.

Michael, I believe the clubhouse is closed during the summer.  So I'm not sure summer members are excluded any more than regular members.  I love Yeamans.  But I wouldn't wish an August round there on my worst enemy.  Heat, humidity and bugs straight from hell.

Ed - According to my friends who are Summer Members they are not allowed in the clubhouse during any season... summer, fall, winter or spring.

[Ed Oden]

Sean - the "Summer Members" are not allowed in the clubhouse.

Michael, I believe the clubhouse is closed during the summer.  So I'm not sure summer members are excluded any more than regular members.  I love Yeamans.  But I wouldn't wish an August round there on my worst enemy.  Heat, humidity and bugs straight from hell.

Ed - According to my friends who are Summer Members they are not allowed in the clubhouse during any season... summer, fall, winter or spring.

Got it.  My point was that summer members are only allowed to play from approximately Memorial Day/Labor Day when the club is essentially closed other than the pro shop.  I don't believe a regular member who showed up to play during that time would get access to the clubhouse either since the club doesn't get enough usage during the summer months to justify staffing the place.