Biggest False Fronts

« **Reply #25 on:** April 14, 2009, 08:18:43 PM »

#5 at Isleworth.

I will try to track down a picture.

« **Reply #26 on:** April 15, 2009, 09:33:00 AM »

Quote from: Tim Gavrich on April 12, 2009, 12:43:15 AM

Biggest one I've sen is the 17th green at Tot Hill Farm, I reckon.

Cliff--

Good call on #4 at Shennecossett. Heck, no mater where you're attacking that green from, you're confronting a false edge! It's one of the toughest par 3s I've ever seen.

Tim the 4th at Shenny might be the toughest par 3 I have ever played. I inevitably go left. The green is narrow and slopes left to right. Next to impossible uphill pitch to hold it. I play Shenny 3-4 times a year and am becoming more and more convinced I should just play it short, hope for a good chip and not take worse than a 4!

« **Reply #27 on:** April 15, 2009, 12:59:27 PM »

#9 at Milwaukee CC

« **Reply #28 on:** April 15, 2009, 01:11:37 PM »

Quote from: Philippe Binette on April 11, 2009, 10:25:53 AM

The 8th on the Eden Course (or is it the 5th) Par 3, the entire green is a false front it seems...

Sand Hills par 3 12th is about as big and as severe as I've seen

did you mean par 4 #11 at Sand Hills. #12 is also a par 4 but I was getting ready to say #11 FOR SURE.

I hit a shot that landed on the front fringe and the ball came back almost 50 yards.

« **Reply #29 on:** April 15, 2009, 01:24:24 PM »

The two largest false fronts I've seen are both at the Chicago Golf Club, #2 and #7. I wish I had pictures but maybe someone does? #2 is about 30 ft to the level area and #7 is at least 40-50 ft up the hill. It is the Redan hole, making it necessary for the flag to be cut toward the left side of the green.

« **Reply #30 on:** April 15, 2009, 01:25:27 PM »

The 8th hole at Sanctuary even though it isn't techincally a false front.

« **Reply #31 on:** April 15, 2009, 01:27:16 PM »

Is a large hill, mown at fairway height, approaching a green considered a False Front?

« **Reply #32 on:** April 15, 2009, 03:10:00 PM »

Kalen, that's a great picture. Sanctuary #8 looks very comparable to the hole I started this thread with at CC of Charleston. Why do you say this is not "technically" a false front? It would qualify by my definition.

Does anyone else have pictures of some of the other holes described in this thread?

Ed

« **Reply #33 on:** April 15, 2009, 03:24:18 PM »

Quote from: Jim Sullivan on April 15, 2009, 01:27:16 PM

Is a large hill, mown at fairway height, approaching a green considered a False Front?

Jim, I always thought the term "false front" referred only to actual green surface. So I wouldn't consider closely mown fairway to be a false front even though it may have equivalent playing characteristics. For example, I'd describe #10 at Shinnecock as a relatively small false front but with HUGE consequences for failing to negotiate it.

What do you think?

Ed

« **Reply #34 on:** April 15, 2009, 03:38:44 PM »

Ed,

I didn't think it was techincally a false front because the front part where Andy is putting from is pinnable....and they put them there. So in reality its more like a giant swell in the green, as opposed to your picture where the entire front section appears to be completly unpinnable.

« **Reply #35 on:** April 15, 2009, 03:46:38 PM »

Quote from: Kalen Braley on April 15, 2009, 03:38:44 PM

Ed,

I didn't think it was techincally a false front because the front part where Andy is putting from is pinnable....and they put them there. So in reality its more like a giant swell in the green, as opposed to your picture where the entire front section appears to be completly unpinnable.

Got it. From the looks of your picture, I would have thought that front was unpinnable. Thanks!

« **Reply #36 on:** April 15, 2009, 05:35:04 PM »

Ed,

Thanks and I agree with both your definition and example of the Biggest, and a deadly not-so-false front...#2 at HVCC C-9 has the characteristics of #10 at Shinnecock.

« **Reply #37 on:** April 15, 2009, 07:08:50 PM »

Pasatiempo has quite a few....5, 8, 11, 18, and (depending on your definition) 16 come to mind immediately.

« **Reply #38 on:** April 15, 2009, 08:16:43 PM »

14 at Pebble Beach?

« **Reply #39 on:** April 16, 2009, 11:34:41 AM »

I'm thinking that Winged Foot 18 is pretty large, but must confess to not totally understanding when it no longer becomes a false front and just a big hill, ( the 10th at Shinnie?)

As to the picture of the hole at CC o Charleston , if Tom Doak has accurately indentified it , I remember the hole at CC of Charleston as a fortress green and perhaps not of the genre we are discussing. But as stated, I'm twisted on the definition.

« **Reply #40 on:** April 16, 2009, 01:05:49 PM »

Tobacco Road #16 has the same effect as Tot Hill Farm #9 or Shinny #10 where the actual FF is
small, but the effect is large.

One time there, my approach from about 80 yards out landed on the tier in the middle of the
green (which you can't see from the FW), it rolled back off the tier, then all the way off the front of
the green, 80 yards later, the ball was at my feet again.

« **Reply #41 on:** April 16, 2009, 03:00:56 PM »

Kinderlou Forest has a strong false front at the medium length par-4 6th. The green fits the typical approach shot well- uphill short iron that has to be hit the correct distance with the right amount spin. There is room to miss long for the conservative play, but the resulting pitch or chip can be delicate. Here are a series of photos taken during construction:

April 2003 with greens mix

June 2003 after sprigging

April 2004 just before opening

April 2004 (from the tee)

« **Reply #42 on:** April 16, 2009, 09:21:53 PM »

Good grief I need to stop slouching when I putt. Pretty sure that was a 3-putt! That green template is also in place at #6 at Pradera. Definitely a pinnable area in the front, so while its a huge tier, its not a false front by the normal definition. I've never played any of those holes with a front pin though.

« **Reply #43 on:** April 16, 2009, 10:16:49 PM »

Quote from: archie_struthers on April 16, 2009, 11:34:41 AM

As to the picture of the hole at CC o Charleston , if Tom Doak has accurately indentified it , I remember the hole at CC of Charleston as a fortress green and perhaps not of the genre we are discussing. But as stated, I'm twisted on the definition.

Archie, here is a picture of #11 at CC of Charleston from the tee:

It is definitely a fortress green, although I believe slightly less intimidating than previous iterations since the most recent revisions include a raised back edge which creates a redan-like bank that reduces the likelihood of balls going over the green into the back bunker. Regardless, as you can see, there is also a huge false front covering approximately the front 1/3 of the green. I am not aware of any reason why a fortress green can't have a false front.

Ed

« **Reply #44 on:** April 16, 2009, 11:33:08 PM »

It was so well maintained that I did not recognize the first picture of the11th at the CC of C.

I still feel that the hole was originally part of a real 'redan' or similar earth work fortification....primarily because of its location strategically to the river, and its lack of relation to the design scale of the rest of the course.

Its hard for me to believe that Raynor decided to blow 30% of his earthwork budget on one hole.

But maybe he did just to mess with us.....

« **Reply #45 on:** April 17, 2009, 04:53:10 PM »

If this were to be considered a “Template" hole then the original is at Mussleburgh. Park admitted adapting it with 'homages' at Huntercombe and Worplesdon.

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