is the 17th at Bay Hill a bad hole?

[PThomas]

particularly the Sunday pin placement....how many people get the ball within 10 feet of the hole?  doesn't that make it a bad hole?

[John Moore II]

particularly the Sunday pin placement....how many people get the ball within 10 feet of the hole?  doesn't that make it a bad hole?

How many people try to get it within 10 feet of the hole? No, I think its a fine hole.

[Andy Troeger]

One thing I really dislike, here and at other courses, is sand where the ball buries in the lips regularly. Seems like too often there's a significant amount of sand in the high parts of the bunker--I don't get why that's the maintenance plan. You can obviously use the "its a hazard" comment, but I'd rather make them tough in other ways.

Its hard to tell from TV how shallow the green is back where the pin is at--if there's a reasonable amount of room to fly the ball to the green and get it to stop then I don't see anything wrong with it--it doesn't seem particularly unique though.

[Doug Sobieski]

Its hard to tell from TV how shallow the green is back where the pin is at--if there's a reasonable amount of room to fly the ball to the green and get it to stop then I don't see anything wrong with it--it doesn't seem particularly unique though.

The green overall is about 36 deep. But the right side over the bunker is only about 22 deep or so and it slopes slightly away just over the bunker.

[Andy Troeger]

Its hard to tell from TV how shallow the green is back where the pin is at--if there's a reasonable amount of room to fly the ball to the green and get it to stop then I don't see anything wrong with it--it doesn't seem particularly unique though.

The green overall is about 36 deep. But the right side over the bunker is only about 22 deep or so and it slopes slightly away just over the bunker.

So from that it would seem that you have a reasonable shot to the middle of the green but better execute if you want to shoot at that pin? I can live with that--the pin's not always in that location.

[mike_beene]

I like that you have to hit some solid shots to get it in the house at Bay Hill.

[Mark Manuel]

Played there a couple of weeks ago, trust me it is not a bad hole.  Back up there in the trees, looking out at that green with that sand and water creates a great atmosphere and a good golf hole.

The sand was not too my liking, I ended up with a couple of buried lies like Tiger.  No chance to get up and down, surprised Tiger made bogey on 17.

The drive on 15, the second shot on 16, the tee shot on 17 and the second shot on 18 create a great finish.  You have to golf your ball to make four pars.

[TEPaul]

Paul:

Doesn't bother me at all that they could hardly get within ten feet of the 17th pin. I thought it was most interesting how hard even those guys had to work from tee to green just to make par on the last three holes. That's rare on Tour and I think it made Woods' par on #16 (his third was one of the coolest, gutty and imaginative shots I've ever seen) and his birdie at the last far more impressive.

[PThomas]

Paul:

Doesn't bother me at all that they could hardly get within ten feet of the 17th pin. I thought it was most interesting how hard even those guys had to work from tee to green just to make par on the last three holes. That's rare on Tour and I think it made Woods' par on #16 (his third was one of the coolest, gutty and imaginative shots I've ever seen) and his birdie at the last far more impressive.

it would be very interesting to see the shot dispersal pattern over the years with that Sunday pin placement....i can't recall ANY ball being within 10-15 feet....be interesting where Tigers would have stopped if it had carried a foot more, cause he hits the ball so damn high maybe it would have been close

and Miller and someone else really looked silly , stating before Woods' 3rd to 16 "Why is he aiming so far out to the right?"...i guess he knew what he was doing!

[Anthony Gray]

  I would like to see it play shorter so we could see more birdie putts than birdie chips.

   Anthony

[TEPaul]

Paul:

Did You ever hear about that incident when Feherty was standing in the fairway next to Els with an open mike when Tiger hit this otherworldly 9 iron over about  a 75 foot tree right in front of him to about a foot?

[PThomas]

Paul:

Did You ever hear about that incident when Feherty was standing in the fairway next to Els with an open mike when Tiger hit this otherworldly 9 iron over about  a 75 foot tree right in front of him to about a foot?

i believe Ernie dropped the f-bomb then, yes??

[TEPaul]

"i believe Ernie dropped the f-bomb then, yes??"


Paul:

Yeah, he did but that's not the good part. The shocked producer very calmly radioed to Feherty and asked him if his mike was open and what in the hell was that he heard? Feherty said he was sorry his mike was open and that was Ernie's reaction ("Fuck me") to Tiger's shot. Apparently the producer just radioed back to Ferherty: "I understand" and that was the end of it.
 
 
 

[Greg Chambers]

I think having a par 3 down the stretch where the pro's struggle to make par is great.  Especially if they can come back on the next hole with three great shots to make birdie ala el Tigre.

[PThomas]

"i believe Ernie dropped the f-bomb then, yes??"


Paul:

Yeah, he did but that's not the good part. The shocked producer very calmly radioed to Feherty and asked him if his mike was open and what in the hell was that he heard? Feherty said he was sorry his mike was open and that was Ernie's reaction ("Fuck me") to Tiger's shot. Apparently the producer just radioed back to Ferherty: "I understand" and that was the end of it.
 

for some reason Tom this reminded of the time that , in describing a players upcoming shot, McCord - who is just ok as an announcer in my book usually- stated,"Man he's really got a Rosburg shot here!"  i guess his producer Chirkinian almost had a coronary...

[Mark Smolens]

Paul:

Did You ever hear about that incident when Feherty was standing in the fairway next to Els with an open mike when Tiger hit this otherworldly 9 iron over about  a 75 foot tree right in front of him to about a foot?

I thought that this was the shot Tiger hit out of the bunker, around a huge tree, at Hazeltine in the Rich Beem PGA.  It was #2 I think on the Golf Channel show about Tiger's top ten shots.  Ridiculous.  Another shot that no one else could hit, let alone no one else would even try.

[PThomas]

Paul:

Did You ever hear about that incident when Feherty was standing in the fairway next to Els with an open mike when Tiger hit this otherworldly 9 iron over about  a 75 foot tree right in front of him to about a foot?

I thought that this was the shot Tiger hit out of the bunker, around a huge tree, at Hazeltine in the Rich Beem PGA.  It was #2 I think on the Golf Channel show about Tiger's top ten shots.  Ridiculous.  Another shot that no one else could hit, let alone no one else would even try.

if thats the way i'm thinking about Mark, that still might be the best shot he's ever hit!

[Kalen Braley]

It was actually at Firestone.  Here is the story:

“I’m walking down the 18th fairway at Firestone Country Club with Ernie Els and Tiger, who has popped up a three-wood about 40 yards behind Ernie into some wet, nasty, horrible, six-inch rough,” Feherty says. “Tiger’s cursing and taking clumps out of Ohio with his three-wood. And, of course, we’re not showing this on TV because we want to be able to interview him later. Ernie and I walk past Tiger’s ball, and it is truly buried.”

“Ernie is tied with Tiger and he’s in the middle of the fairway. I’m standing with Ernie and my microphone is open. Ken Venturi [in the CBS booth] sends it to me and I say, ‘Tiger’s got 184 yards with two big red oaks overhanging the green. He’s got absolutely nothing. With a stick of dynamite and a sand wedge I might be able to move this ball 50 yards. Steve Williams [Woods' caddie] tells me [with a hand signal] that he’s using a pitching wedge.’

“Tiger takes his swing. Every muscle in his body is flung at the ball. It looks like he’s torn his nutsack. The divot went as far as I could hit the ball. I’ve got my microphone at my mouth thinking, what the hell was that! The ball sails over the trees, lands behind the hole and backs up to about six feet from the flag. I open my microphone and Ernie turns and says, ‘Fuck me!”

“My producer comes on in my earpiece and says, ‘Was that Ernie?’ I say yes.He says, ‘Fair enough.’

“I could have described that shot for 15 minutes and not done as good a job as Ernie did with two words. This is one of the best players in the world talking, and you wanna know how good Tiger is? Ask Ernie Els.”

[Mark Smolens]

This is the one I was thinking of:

"The happiest Woods has ever been in the second round of a major was at Hazeltine in the 2002 PGA Championship when he hit a stunning bunker shot with a 3-iron, over a tree into a 25 mph gust to 12 feet. Yes, he made the putt."  I believe Ernie's reaction was similar, and Feherty was also on that call. . .

[PThomas]

This is the one I was thinking of:

"The happiest Woods has ever been in the second round of a major was at Hazeltine in the 2002 PGA Championship when he hit a stunning bunker shot with a 3-iron, over a tree into a 25 mph gust to 12 feet. Yes, he made the putt."  I believe Ernie's reaction was similar, and Feherty was also on that call. . .

i think that is it Mark...freakin awesome!

[Mark Smolens]

I guess the fact that we can debate which one of the shots he hit was the most amazing is instructive?  I can recall Kenny Perry on that Golf Channel show talking about the six iron from the bunker at the Canadian Open saying something like "I (or was it ai?) woulda never even considered hitting that shot at the pin?"

[PThomas]

I guess the fact that we can debate which one of the shots he hit was the most amazing is instructive?  I can recall Kenny Perry on that Golf Channel show talking about the six iron from the bunker at the Canadian Open saying something like "I (or was it ai?) woulda never even considered hitting that shot at the pin?"

boy its a shame that we dont have such footage of all the great players  shots, that would be sweet to compare

that Canadian Open one was a sweetie too, of course...i always thought - maybe incorrectly - that the situation of the shot made it so hard...i.e., if he had that shot in the first round it would of course not been an easy shot but the fact that he did it in the final round on the last hole with the tournament in the balance...well, that certainly upped the tension involved!

[archie_struthers]

 

sometimes when a bunker is as close to the water with a design like 17  (bunker) there is a fear of not having enough sand in the bunker wall and risking a bounce back

perhaps