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Mark_F

Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« on: March 19, 2009, 03:34:51 AM »
I played Victoria, part of the Sandbelt for the first time a few months ago.  It was a little different to what I expected - it really is a course of two halves, a very undulating back nine, which I played first, and the much flatter front nine.  The greens, too, especially on the back nine, were mostly sloped quite hard from back to front, with minimal interior contour.

The back nine contains the best holes - 11,13, 15 and 16, whilst only the 3rd - or 6th, depending upon your point of view - and the 4th being of much interest going out.

First hole - 250 odd metres downhill, a vast difference to the indifferent hole it replaced. The green, as you may notice as you continue the round, is quite out of place with the others here.



Bailing right isn't much of an option.
           


Second hole - 388 metres. The two bunkers from the tee look a little closer together than they really are. The green has a horizontal ridge running across 1/3rd the way up.
         

Behind the green - going long is definitely unwise on the back nine, but there are a few features on the flatter front nine holes which make long no bargain either.
       

Third hole - 400 metres.  Probably the pick of the front nine holes.  Running uphill alongside the boundary, the bunker needs to be carried for the best angle into the angled green.
   

Closer to the green.
       

Fourth hole - 165 metres.  Ever so slightly uphill and consequently vision impaired, this is possibly the pick of the par threes, with the narrow front tongue providing exceedingly difficult hole locations.
               

From a different angle, more is revealed.
               

The fifth is a forgettable mid-length par four, then the sixth hole is a stout 400 metres, bunkered on both sides of the fairway,although the best side is close to this bunker, to a quick green which slopes from front to back.
             

The seventh is a similar length par three to the fourth, again playing slightly uphill, to a green with a large slope from left to right, which can be used to bring the ball in to right front pin positions.  A sort of reverse redan, I guess.
       

From past the first left bunker.
     

The eighth is a mundane short par five, then the 9th is a long par five of some 550 metres played over a beautifully rolling piece of ground.
     
Tee shots landing in the bunker will have a long third to the green;those carrying it may roll down into the bottom of a valley leaving a blind shot to a large and flattish green well guarded by three more bunkers.

The tenth is a down then up drive and pitch hole of some 330 metres, unless you play with Mike Clayton, apparently, where it is some thirty metres longer?
           

The second shot is uphill to a knob green with death over the back, however shots coming up short could roll back into the fairway, or this bunker.
       

The eleventh is a mid-range par four of some 370 metres that turns from left to right as it flows beautifully uphill to a sharply tilted green with perhaps the best interior contours. Some judicious tree removal on the right side of the fairway would open up the hole for the better.
         

The twelfth is some thirty metres longer than the eleventh, but plays sharply downhill.  Best line in is over this bunker, which I think is a recent addition.  The older bunkers have a wonderful ancient eroded look to their edges.
       

The second is into a nice green protected front left by a bunker, some subtle rolls off to the side as well.
       

If the eleventh isn't the best hole on the course, then the thirteenth must be.  A similar length to the twelfth, you face a blind drive over a bunkered rise to face this fantastic second from a downhill lie to a green that slopes from left to right. Similar to the twelfth, there are some nice man-made rolls short of the green.       
     

From behind.
       

The fourteenth is a short par three of around 140 metres, more sharply uphill than the other par threes, making it difficult to ascertain exactly where the flag is on the green. It's really just a matter of figuring the distance then hitting it, with little requirement to shape a shot.
       

The fifteenth is a driveable par four slightly less than 300 metres, to a fairway which tightens up significantly near the green, where once again, going long is death.
       

The sixteenth is an excellent long par three, 178 metres uphill.
       

Again, don't go long.
     

The seventeenth is another long par five of around 550 metres.  Best line in is next to this bunker, the outside of the slight left to right dogleg.
               

Closer to the green, which has been rebuilt several times because of boundary issues.
         

And so to the eighteenth, along with six the only hole bunkered both sides of the fairway.  A medium par five with a blind drive over a rise, and then a second to an away sloping green.
         

It's an odd course, Victoria.  It kind of looks like it is attempting to be a cross between Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath, but doesn't quite pull it off.  Few holes have the strategic interest of the other Sandbelt courses, especially Woodlands and Commonwealth, which are vastly superior, although for some reason generally ranked behind Vic.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2009, 04:25:11 AM »
Thanks Mark.  The course looks good enough to me, but you are right, something seems to be lacking as many of the holes sort of blend together.  I do like those drop offs near greens, its a welcome contrast to all the sand.  Is it me or could this course have a better look to it if it were more scruffy?  The conditions look perfect, but I get the feeling they are trying to be too fussy with the course.  A few examples of what I mean.

Here we have a great natural sandy area leading to the very regimented bunering around the green.  Its the contrast  don't like and wonder why the course can't be a bit more wild.


Same situation here.


Ciao



 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark_F

Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2009, 04:56:18 AM »
Is it me or could this course have a better look to it if it were more scruffy? 

Sean,

Yes, it would.  I don't really know the history of Victoria - it has undergone renovation in recent years, but I am not really sure what was done to which holes, apart from the first, or what the reason behind the renovation was.

Maybe a word that sums it up is incoherent - Kingston Heath is still quite manicured, but beautifully scruffy.  Vic sort of tries to pull it off, but really only succeeds on a few holes.

The sixteenth is a perfect example of it working.
     

It's still a 1* on the Richelin scale, however. ;)  Hopefully a few of the overseas posters who have played it will chime in.  I know Philip Gawith has played it, I'd be very interested in his thoughts.

Sean_A

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Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 05:15:31 AM »
Is it me or could this course have a better look to it if it were more scruffy? 

Sean,

Yes, it would.  I don't really know the history of Victoria - it has undergone renovation in recent years, but I am not really sure what was done to which holes, apart from the first, or what the reason behind the renovation was.

Maybe a word that sums it up is incoherent - Kingston Heath is still quite manicured, but beautifully scruffy.  Vic sort of tries to pull it off, but really only succeeds on a few holes.

The sixteenth is a perfect example of it working.
     

It's still a 1* on the Richelin scale, however. ;)  Hopefully a few of the overseas posters who have played it will chime in.  I know Philip Gawith has played it, I'd be very interested in his thoughts.

Mark

I agree that the course looks a goer. 

I can recall going to the site sometime ago and being very impressed with the stay and play rates which included what seemed like gobs of meals.  The other courses I looked at were much higher priced especially RM.  I would dearly love to make it to Melbourne for golf.  The problem is getting my wife on board.  She used to live there and has a "been there done that" attitude. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 05:22:10 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark_F

Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 05:26:04 AM »
I would dearly love to make it to Melbourne for golf.  The problem is getting my wife on board.  She used to live there and has a "been there done that" attitude. 
Ciao

Sean,

Unless she lived here in the last ten years, you could always use the "It's a totally different city now,wouldn't you like to see what has changed?" approach, because it is a very different place.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 04:01:14 PM »
Victoria Golf Club also has a very good namesake in Victoria, British Columbia designed by A.V. Macan.  In fact this might be the best pair of courses with the same name, assuming that both courses have to be very good.  (i.e. Pine Valley doesn't count if the "other" course is very mediocre)

Guy Nicholson

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Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 04:02:52 PM »
I don't know, Wayne, does St. George's count?

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 04:04:45 PM »
I don't know, Wayne, does St. George's count?
But one of them is Royal St. George's, is it not?

Guy Nicholson

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Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 06:25:31 PM »
I don't know, Wayne, does St. George's count?
But one of them is Royal St. George's, is it not?

Hence my question. I was under the impression that "royal" was an honorary title, added afterward, but maybe not.

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 07:28:44 PM »
The Royal designation usually comes afterwards - you are correct there.  That is assuming that the Royal is by order or Her Majesty and not a marketing gimmick.

Actually the St. Georges in Toronto was originally Royal York Golf Club (or Course) as it was affiliated with the Royal York Hotel in downtown Toronto. 

Kyle Henderson

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Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2009, 12:53:22 AM »
Victoria Golf Club also has a very good namesake in Victoria, British Columbia designed by A.V. Macan.  In fact this might be the best pair of courses with the same name, assuming that both courses have to be very good.  (i.e. Pine Valley doesn't count if the "other" course is very mediocre)

Don't forget the Victoria Golf Club in Riverside,  CA. (Max Behr).

It needs a bit of TLC, but it has solid bones. The course sits in a canyon with the club house looking over the course, much like Riviera but with substantial contours in play and an Alps hole that begs for restoration.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Shane Gurnett

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Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2009, 04:24:48 AM »
Mark, how much strategy (especially off the tee) do you think there is at Victoria? There seem to be a lot of greens that just look straight at you from the fairway and are approachable equally easily from either side of the fairway, regardless of where the the tee shot has finished. It has always struck as a course where you just hit the fairway anywhere and away you go.

Also, they really need to dig up the 5th and 17th greens which are appalling. How were the fairways? Last time I was there before Christmas they were in poor shape and everything was turning to dust (still just ok to hit off though).

Shane.

Mark Bourgeois

Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2009, 07:59:18 AM »
Painful to look at as I recently had to cancel my planned stay there!  I agree the scruffy-and-clean combo doesn't quite work.

Victoria I have been told is the best *club* in Melbourne and judging by a BBQ I went to last year I would have to agree!

Thanks for the pics, Mark.

Mark_F

Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2009, 08:35:57 PM »
Mark, how much strategy (especially off the tee) do you think there is at Victoria? There seem to be a lot of greens that just look straight at you from the fairway and are approachable equally easily from either side of the fairway, regardless of where the the tee shot has finished. It has always struck as a course where you just hit the fairway anywhere and away you go.

Also, they really need to dig up the 5th and 17th greens which are appalling. How were the fairways? Last time I was there before Christmas they were in poor shape and everything was turning to dust (still just ok to hit off though).

Shane.

Shane,

The Alzheimers must be kicking in early for me this year, because I played the course sometime in December too, and seem to remember the fairways being okay. Of course, that could be because I wasn't on very many, and my recollections are obviously going to be very different from yours because I doubt you see the same side of the golf course that I do...

I have only played it the once, but yes, I do remember wondering how the course was supposed to "work".  The first hole is the most obvious example of a hole that demands a shot to a particular part of the fairway, but maybe only the 3rd and 13th otherwise?

I like that the third green doesn't have the left greenside bunker covering the whole left flank, so if you are on the left side of the fairway with the pin left you might still attempt to go for it, but there is a pretty small area to get it right, actually.  The 12th hole tries something similar, but it doesn't work as well.

The 13th green I seem to recall had a strong slope from left to right, so a left pin would be impossible to get near from anywhere other than the right side of the fairway, but I was struck by how many greens seemed to have a simple pitch from back to front - or front to back in a few cases, but nothing more.

Maybe Martin Hawtree will come in and fix up the 5th and 17th greens, since he seems to be getting the good Sandbelt gigs.  Yarra have him earmarked for some work I was told.  Commonwealth fortunately don't appear to put a lot of faith in Doctorates. ;)

James Bennett

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Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2009, 09:01:19 PM »
Mark

I thought the bunker work on 11 involving adding new bunkers was very good - it was very hard to tell which were the new and which were the older bunkers.  I think there is some agreement about the trees on the right being redundant - perhaps one day they will go.

I thought holes 11 through 16 looked particularly interesting (for those who haven't been, the rear of 12 green looks onto Royal Melbourne East #17 (the par5 that used to be #17 on the composite course pre 1999).

My recollection of the Victoria GC is that the strategy of approach from one side of the fairway or other needs the greens to be firm.  Were they firm, or well watered for the summer when you played?

You pic of 15 with a dark sky billowing above the green is quite good.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Mark_F

Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2009, 09:29:52 PM »
James,

The eleventh is a lovely hole. Didn't realise bunkers had been added. They are very good.

The greens were not that firm, no. Obviously if they are firm, given the slopes, especially on the back nine greens, it would a different affair, but I am still not sure it is as interesting from the tee as the other Sandbelt courses.

The pic of 15 was taken earlier in the year.  I should have stood a few metres to the right. Annoying how different computer monitors totally change an image - it looks much different on a 24in Mac screen than a 15in Toshiba laptop.  :)

What do you think of the course otherwise? 

My experience may be somewhat lesser because I played the back nine first.

James Bennett

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Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2009, 09:36:16 PM »
Mark

I haven't played there, yet!.  I have walked part of the course with some course architect staff and the club's Course supt.  I haven't seen much of the front nine at all, nor 17-18

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Shane Gurnett

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Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2009, 09:45:45 PM »
Mark, interesting that you would rate both Woodlands and Commonwealth ahead of Victoria. Most tend to have either Vic or Metro as the third best sandbelt course in Melbourne behind RM and KH.

The greens at Vic don't have a huge amount of internal movement apart from perhaps the new 1st that Clayton built. I think that feature (or more, the lack of it) tends to hold the course back a touch.

Andrew Bertram

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Re: Victoria Golf Club - A Few Pictures
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2009, 10:19:24 PM »
Victoria has always been #3 in Melbourne for me.

I was fortunate enough to grow up hitting wedges from my back yard onto the 1st green and played a lot of golf over the years. My first real foray into golf was when Bill Rogers won the Australian Open There in 1981, the family doctor from RMGC parked our place each day and it was most exciting for a 12 year old.

I have always felt the strategy comes most into play when the course is running and the ability to put the ball in the right place in the fairway when the course is in championship mode.

The current 1st is the best version that has been in play in the 25 years I have been playing there on a reasonably regular basis.

I certainly agree that the 5th and 17th greens are not in keeping with the rest of the course and could be improved.
Whereas there is not the same internal movement as there is at some other sand belts the greens have a subtlety about them that the makes them challenging.

Although the course looks dry and dusty in the photos, whiuch are excellent and give a great feel for the course, they are excellent to play off.

Mark you commented about it being a great Club, it is truly a "golfers" club and has a significant number of good to excellent players amongst it's membership and they play "serious" golf.

Martin Hawtree has been working with Yarra Yarra for 18 months now and he has been excellent to deal with. He is due out again on Monday the 30th for our next round of meetings and to release the plans for the changes to the 10th hole / dam / 18th tee to the members as well as progressing forward with work on plans for the 1st 4 holes.
It is a challenge for him as the many committees over the years have changed greens significantly and the current course bears little resemblance to what was here 50 - 60 years ago. The membership as a group have the impression that "yarra" is a great course and that any changes made should be minimal.
I was fortunate enough to play California Club last week and i only hope that any work we do at Yarra is as good as they have done there as it is truly impressive.

 
 

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